I figured this was a worthwhile thread to have, now that all Atma choices are out on the table. Keep in mind that all the statements I make are relative to my gear, targets, and normal support. Your mileage may vary.
Always Atma:
Atma of the Razed Ruins - Ironclad Pulverizer - 50 DEX, 30% Crit rate, 30% Crit damage - The strongest Atma
Atma of the Gnarled Horn - Sobek - 50 AGI, 20% Crit rate, 10 Counter - A nice mix of defensive and offensive stats. AGI contributes to reducing monster TP gain and Evasion.
Third DD Atma:
Atma of the Apocalypse - Shinryu - 15% Triple Attack rate - Technically our best third DD Atma. Quick Cast certainly has its perks, as does auto-reraise.
Atma of the Dark Depths - 4 Salvage bosses - 20% Crit rate, AGI/Eva - Comes out ~2% worse than Atma of the Apocalypse and offers a lot more durability. I suspect the "minors" in the description are wrong.
Random other Atma:
Atma of the Earth Wyrm - Dragua - 100 Earth resist - Useful for resisting earth (Tunga/Glavoid/etc.)
Atma of the Future Fabulous - WotG missions - 50 MDB - Useful for soloing things that do a lot of magic damage
That's all I've got! Can anyone think of others?
Atma Choices
Atma Choices
I myself find it a difficult choice for a 3rd atma, but its usually Apoc lol. Although, I do like C&D or Future fabulous for soloing! Wish we could have 4 atma sometimes ; ;
DD only 2% worse than Atma of Apocalypse? A bit too busy to do a full analysis right now but I find this fairly hard to stomach at a glance since Triple Attack affects TP damage/WS frequency/WS damage whereas Critical Hit Rate affects only TP damage/WS damage.
Could be wrong though!
Could be wrong though!
Our high DA rate makes AoA less attractive than it could be. Same for evisc being 6 hits already. When I subtracted 15% ta and added another 20% crit rate, I got a 2.2% decrease in damage. In many situations, it is actually a substantial increase in damage because it lets you use more DD gear instead of a hybrid evasion build.
I would recommend trying it. Parsed a 77% evade rate last night while spending most of my time in full on DD gear complete with fusetto +2.
I would recommend trying it. Parsed a 77% evade rate last night while spending most of my time in full on DD gear complete with fusetto +2.
Lakshmi.Byrth said:
Our high DA rate makes AoA less attractive than it could be.
Isn't it the other way around, that AoA makes DA less attractive since TA checks before DA?
This is why I'm so conflicted with atmas and gear choices for DNC. I'm usually always going to have a TA atma on (apoc in this case) but with saber dance and 10% DA (20 when I finish my DA dagger) it's effects are being diminished slightly by that 15% TA. Not that I will see any decrease in DOT but still...
...Or is my perspective on this once again wrong?
Triple Attack checks before DA, so it makes DA less attractive if we have a high Triple Attack rate. We already have a high DA rate though, so you could also look at it like "Triple Attack devalues the DA we already have." For instance, if we had +0% DA/TA, 15% TA would be a 30% increase in hits per attack round. Instead, with 3% TA and 33% DA:
1+.03*2+.97*.33 = 1.38
1+.18*2+.82*.33 = 1.63
1.63/1.38 = +18% hits per attack round, almost half the expected value
Furthermore, Triple Attack's direct benefit to us on WS damage (because Evisc is already 6 hits) is pretty minimal. It's mostly a benefit to WS frequency.
Dark Depths (on top of RR and GH) for comparison, is going to give us a 94% crit rate, up from 74%.
.74*(crit_pDIF)*1.43 + .26*(norm_pDIF) = damage = ~3.05
.94*(crit_pDIF)*1.43 + .06*(norm_pDIF) = damage = ~3.49
I assume a cRatio of 1.5 above, which isn't too unreasonable for Dancer, crit_pDIF is ~ 2.53 and non-crit pDIF is ~1.46. Anyway, it works out to a 14% increase in damage.
My spreadsheet comes up with a different answer because I assume different things in it (Loki's Kaftan for TP due to double Marches and Haste, different pDIF). Also, now that I think about it, the proposed 10% WS boost in Evisceration crit rate would either push us to 100% or be wasted capping us at 95%, meaning we're only really getting 11 to 16% crit rate on WS. Still, the difference is not super huge, and it may be the best third DD evasion Atma.
AoA - 18% increase in Hits/Round (and subsequent ~<18% increase in WS frequency) with an almost invisible increase in WS damage
DD - 14% increase in WS (maybe) and TP damage.
1+.03*2+.97*.33 = 1.38
1+.18*2+.82*.33 = 1.63
1.63/1.38 = +18% hits per attack round, almost half the expected value
Furthermore, Triple Attack's direct benefit to us on WS damage (because Evisc is already 6 hits) is pretty minimal. It's mostly a benefit to WS frequency.
Dark Depths (on top of RR and GH) for comparison, is going to give us a 94% crit rate, up from 74%.
.74*(crit_pDIF)*1.43 + .26*(norm_pDIF) = damage = ~3.05
.94*(crit_pDIF)*1.43 + .06*(norm_pDIF) = damage = ~3.49
I assume a cRatio of 1.5 above, which isn't too unreasonable for Dancer, crit_pDIF is ~ 2.53 and non-crit pDIF is ~1.46. Anyway, it works out to a 14% increase in damage.
My spreadsheet comes up with a different answer because I assume different things in it (Loki's Kaftan for TP due to double Marches and Haste, different pDIF). Also, now that I think about it, the proposed 10% WS boost in Evisceration crit rate would either push us to 100% or be wasted capping us at 95%, meaning we're only really getting 11 to 16% crit rate on WS. Still, the difference is not super huge, and it may be the best third DD evasion Atma.
AoA - 18% increase in Hits/Round (and subsequent ~<18% increase in WS frequency) with an almost invisible increase in WS damage
DD - 14% increase in WS (maybe) and TP damage.
DD wise according to my tables razed ruins, apocolypse, and omnipentent were the best three atma. i'll add more to why later, i need sleep, 11 straight hours of farming dark rings, im *** tired.
Don't see how haste superior can be useful, unless it counts towards the magic haste cap?
if so then i could see it being really useful for soloing.
if so then i could see it being really useful for soloing.
haste atma counts towards gear cap not magic cap..
You can take off haste and put in dual wield + instead. Faster attacking etc.
Yuna uses the Haste from Omnipotent to cap gear Haste while using Nusku's and full AF3+2. It translates into 50 DEX, 2% ODD, -2% DA, and 5% Dual Wield (~+10% DPS and a little less than +10% TP gain). It's a competitive DD option with low Haste buffs.
Assuming Haste and 52% Dual Wield, .5*.48 = .24, pretty close to the delay cap. Auric Dagger, in this case, would be an additional 11% DPS (but minus offhand stats/dps).
Whether these tradeoffs are worth it is debatable.
Assuming Haste and 52% Dual Wield, .5*.48 = .24, pretty close to the delay cap. Auric Dagger, in this case, would be an additional 11% DPS (but minus offhand stats/dps).
Whether these tradeoffs are worth it is debatable.
Lakshmi.Byrth said:
Yuna uses the Haste from Omnipotent to cap gear Haste while using Nusku's and full AF3+2. It translates into 50 DEX, 2% ODD, -2% DA, and 5% Dual Wield (~+10% DPS and a little less than +10% TP gain). It's a competitive DD option with low Haste buffs.
Assuming Haste and 52% Dual Wield, .5*.48 = .24, pretty close to the delay cap. Auric Dagger, in this case, would be an additional 11% DPS (but minus offhand stats/dps).
Whether these tradeoffs are worth it is debatable.
Assuming Haste and 52% Dual Wield, .5*.48 = .24, pretty close to the delay cap. Auric Dagger, in this case, would be an additional 11% DPS (but minus offhand stats/dps).
Whether these tradeoffs are worth it is debatable.
Bryth what jobs are you using this set up for exactly?
Leviathan.Syagin said:
Bryth what jobs are you using this set up for exactly?
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good stuff, how would i find a good forum for Warrior?
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/forum/55/warrior/
Unless you were asking for a different forum. There were five forums with job-related sections, FFXIclopedia, FFXIAH, Alla, the Official forums, and KillingIfrit.
Alla - You can ask a question on the WAR forum, but you'll probably get an incorrect or misleading answer
FFXIAH - It will vary from incredibly helpful to misleading/incorrect depending who looks at the forum that week
KillingIfrit - Dead as the deadest dead thing. Dead.
FFXIclopedia - On the fast track to KI-ville.
Official Forum - You may get the correct answer, but it will be buried in so many incorrect answers that you'd have to already know what the right answer was in order to find it. You're almost certain to be told to merit Defender at some point.
So your best option is going to be to ask on the FFXIAH forums here and average the results that you get over a week or take whatever question you have straight to the BG Random Question Thread.
Another alternative is to just PM whatever question you have to me.
Unless you were asking for a different forum. There were five forums with job-related sections, FFXIclopedia, FFXIAH, Alla, the Official forums, and KillingIfrit.
Alla - You can ask a question on the WAR forum, but you'll probably get an incorrect or misleading answer
FFXIAH - It will vary from incredibly helpful to misleading/incorrect depending who looks at the forum that week
KillingIfrit - Dead as the deadest dead thing. Dead.
FFXIclopedia - On the fast track to KI-ville.
Official Forum - You may get the correct answer, but it will be buried in so many incorrect answers that you'd have to already know what the right answer was in order to find it. You're almost certain to be told to merit Defender at some point.
So your best option is going to be to ask on the FFXIAH forums here and average the results that you get over a week or take whatever question you have straight to the BG Random Question Thread.
Another alternative is to just PM whatever question you have to me.
But Byrth, what about the Warrior section on the official FF Forum?
/s
/s
My bad, I added it.
I get GH coming out about 5% better than Omnipotence, but I may need to adjust the cRatio -> pDIF calculations. I'm trying to remember how to make VBA excel functions so I can just add it to all my FFXI documents. <_<
I get GH coming out about 5% better than Omnipotence, but I may need to adjust the cRatio -> pDIF calculations. I'm trying to remember how to make VBA excel functions so I can just add it to all my FFXI documents. <_<
Lakshmi.Byrth said:
My bad, I added it.
I get GH coming out about 5% better than Omnipotence, but I may need to adjust the cRatio -> pDIF calculations. I'm trying to remember how to make VBA excel functions so I can just add it to all my FFXI documents. <_<
I get GH coming out about 5% better than Omnipotence, but I may need to adjust the cRatio -> pDIF calculations. I'm trying to remember how to make VBA excel functions so I can just add it to all my FFXI documents. <_<
gnarled horn set:
total melee damage: 953760 (not including 4/5 af3 set proc)
total ws damage: 442663 (295 ws used)
Omnipotence set:
total melee damage: 958157 (not including 5/5 af3 set proc)
total ws damage: 506722 (333 ws used)
i didnt include the af3 set proc due to me not knowing the exact gain from wearing the entire set. target is your typical abyssea heroes mob. the Omnipotence set is proving stronger than Gnarled horn set by 2.39% again not including the af3 set proc which would skew it further to omnipotence.
all gear was the same save: gnarled horn had offhanded str kila, ocelot gloves and twilight belt, and omnipotence had offhanded auric, charis bangles and nusku (using auric on gnarled horn setup skewed dmg further to omnipotence set to 2.86% due to the lower base dual wield).
again as byrth said: competitve DD atma for low haste situations ie: no brd.
What Attack, what defense, and what target level do you use for your simulations? I feel like I can fill the rest in at this point.
I also think I have a pretty accurate estimation of average pDIF now, so the results should be pretty conclusive.
I also think I have a pretty accurate estimation of average pDIF now, so the results should be pretty conclusive.
Lakshmi.Byrth said:
Always Atma:
Atma of the Razed Ruins - Ironclad Pulverizer - 50 DEX, 30% Crit rate, 30% Crit damage - The strongest Atma
Atma of the Gnarled Horn - Sobek - 50 AGI, 20% Crit rate, 10 Counter - A nice mix of defensive and offensive stats. AGI contributes to reducing monster TP gain and Evasion.
Those I have, its a simply must have for nice dd'er!
Lakshmi.Byrth said:
Third DD Atma:
Atma of the Apocalypse - Shinryu - 15% Triple Attack rate - Technically our best third DD Atma. Quick Cast certainly has its perks, as does auto-reraise.
I'm going to get this this weekend. Might brew and go myself,or take a few friends. Looking kinda interesting to see how auto-re raise is gonna feel...
[+]
Lakshmi.Byrth said:
Triple Attack checks before DA, so it makes DA less attractive if we have a high Triple Attack rate. We already have a high DA rate though, so you could also look at it like "Triple Attack devalues the DA we already have." For instance, if we had +0% DA/TA, 15% TA would be a 30% increase in hits per attack round. Instead, with 3% TA and 33% DA:
1+.03*2+.97*.33 = 1.38
1+.18*2+.82*.33 = 1.63
1.63/1.38 = +18% hits per attack round, almost half the expected value
Furthermore, Triple Attack's direct benefit to us on WS damage (because Evisc is already 6 hits) is pretty minimal. It's mostly a benefit to WS frequency.
Dark Depths (on top of RR and GH) for comparison, is going to give us a 94% crit rate, up from 74%.
.74*(crit_pDIF)*1.43 + .26*(norm_pDIF) = damage = ~3.05
.94*(crit_pDIF)*1.43 + .06*(norm_pDIF) = damage = ~3.49
I assume a cRatio of 1.5 above, which isn't too unreasonable for Dancer, crit_pDIF is ~ 2.53 and non-crit pDIF is ~1.46. Anyway, it works out to a 14% increase in damage.
My spreadsheet comes up with a different answer because I assume different things in it (Loki's Kaftan for TP due to double Marches and Haste, different pDIF). Also, now that I think about it, the proposed 10% WS boost in Evisceration crit rate would either push us to 100% or be wasted capping us at 95%, meaning we're only really getting 11 to 16% crit rate on WS. Still, the difference is not super huge, and it may be the best third DD evasion Atma.
AoA - 18% increase in Hits/Round (and subsequent ~<18% increase in WS frequency) with an almost invisible increase in WS damage
DD - 14% increase in WS (maybe) and TP damage.
1+.03*2+.97*.33 = 1.38
1+.18*2+.82*.33 = 1.63
1.63/1.38 = +18% hits per attack round, almost half the expected value
Furthermore, Triple Attack's direct benefit to us on WS damage (because Evisc is already 6 hits) is pretty minimal. It's mostly a benefit to WS frequency.
Dark Depths (on top of RR and GH) for comparison, is going to give us a 94% crit rate, up from 74%.
.74*(crit_pDIF)*1.43 + .26*(norm_pDIF) = damage = ~3.05
.94*(crit_pDIF)*1.43 + .06*(norm_pDIF) = damage = ~3.49
I assume a cRatio of 1.5 above, which isn't too unreasonable for Dancer, crit_pDIF is ~ 2.53 and non-crit pDIF is ~1.46. Anyway, it works out to a 14% increase in damage.
My spreadsheet comes up with a different answer because I assume different things in it (Loki's Kaftan for TP due to double Marches and Haste, different pDIF). Also, now that I think about it, the proposed 10% WS boost in Evisceration crit rate would either push us to 100% or be wasted capping us at 95%, meaning we're only really getting 11 to 16% crit rate on WS. Still, the difference is not super huge, and it may be the best third DD evasion Atma.
AoA - 18% increase in Hits/Round (and subsequent ~<18% increase in WS frequency) with an almost invisible increase in WS damage
DD - 14% increase in WS (maybe) and TP damage.
33% DA? Wouldn't it be 23%?
Lakshmi.Byrth said:
What Attack, what defense, and what target level do you use for your simulations? I feel like I can fill the rest in at this point.
I also think I have a pretty accurate estimation of average pDIF now, so the results should be pretty conclusive.
I also think I have a pretty accurate estimation of average pDIF now, so the results should be pretty conclusive.
omnipotent: 576 attack
mob was lvl 90 with 393 defense.
I know this maybe the wrong spot. But the refresh atma, can someone please tell me where to find it??
That, get rank 10 in Windurst, or complete ASA. Oh, there's also a Refresh atma from Turul.
Wow, thank you guys!!
Your best bet is to get Durinn's atma first, it's the best of all those, 10 MP/tic.
[+]
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Atma
Wiki has them broken down by area/expansion and also by attributes.
Wiki has them broken down by area/expansion and also by attributes.
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