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Evidence for God. Really?
 Phoenix.Degs
サーバ: Phoenix
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Posts: 2448
By Phoenix.Degs 2010-06-04 22:02:15
Sylph.Seriin said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Caitsith.Silvaria said: Nothing about the OP particularly bashes religion. It's actually fairly logical, since too many religious people try to equate atheism with faith. It doesn't require faith to NOT believe in something, it simply requires an absence of belief.
There is no such thing as an absence of belief. Atheism is the belief that there is no supernatural being or God or afterlife. IT'S STILL A BELIEF.
No, atheism is the lack of a belief, that is what the word means. A theist believes, an atheist does not.
I have a friend that is semi athiest, he simply believes that there is something out there, but there isnt enough proof to make a sound judgement on the whole thing, so he instead believes in santa clause and the easter bunny...
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By Asura.Daleterrence 2010-06-04 22:03:00
Oh.. I forgot something.
Also.
Phoenix.Degs said: I have a friend that is semi athiest, he simply believes that there is something out there, but there isnt enough proof to make a sound judgement on the whole thing, so he instead believes in santa clause and the easter bunny...
This is me. I agree there is something out there greater than us, only logical there would be. However I'm on the fence to if anything like a god exists.
 Ragnarok.Psyence
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Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-06-04 22:03:06
Lakshmi.Feifongwong said:
-Actually it isn't an "absence of belief" it is a belief that there is no supernatural deity.
How is it possible for anyone to have a "belief that a belief is not a fact"? You're destroying logic. You don't even understand what a belief is.
You need to open a non-religious dictionary, read some definitions. Then we could have a serious talk. Changing words to adapt them to your own thinking... this is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Here, educate yourself if you wish.
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Posts: 738
By Phoenix.Smileybone 2010-06-04 22:04:00
Sylph.Seriin said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Caitsith.Silvaria said: Nothing about the OP particularly bashes religion. It's actually fairly logical, since too many religious people try to equate atheism with faith. It doesn't require faith to NOT believe in something, it simply requires an absence of belief.
There is no such thing as an absence of belief. Atheism is the belief that there is no supernatural being or God or afterlife. IT'S STILL A BELIEF.
No, atheism is the lack of a belief, that is what the word means. A theist believes, an atheist does not.
No, atheism means the belief that there is no god. Theism is the belief that there is a god. I think atheists like to deny that atheism isn't a "belief" because they associate belief with religion which is just the most ridiculous thing ever.
Definiton
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By Lakshmi.Feifongwong 2010-06-04 22:04:37
Many scientists are religious believers, so saying science is proof that religions are wrong is just ridiculous.
Honestly the more questions that get answered in every single field of science just raises more and more questions.
I will say this is my true belief: I will find out when I die.
To prove others wrong or right in terms of religious belief means nothing, until you die and find out. I live my life as best I can, I make decisions based on my morals and how I was taught. On occasion have broken my morals so I guess I sinned. But whatever I make my own choices every day and I try to make the best choice when a situation happens. Wrong or right, heaven or hell, I'll find out when I die.
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 Leviathan.Hastefeet
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 1298
By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-06-04 22:04:56
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said:
-Actually it isn't an "absence of belief" it is a belief that there is no supernatural deity.
How is it possible for anyone to have a "belief that a belief is not a fact"? You're destroying logic. You don't even understand what a belief is.
You need to open a non-religious dictionary, read some definitions. Then we could have a serious talk. Changing words to adapt them to your own thinking... this is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Here, educate yourself if you wish.
people don't need to use by the book definitions when using a word in casual talk, but you're too much of an obnoxious *** to know that
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Phoenix.Degs
サーバ: Phoenix
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Posts: 2448
By Phoenix.Degs 2010-06-04 22:05:20
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said:
-Actually it isn't an "absence of belief" it is a belief that there is no supernatural deity.
How is it possible for anyone to have a "belief that a belief is not a fact"? You're destroying logic. You don't even understand what a belief is.
You need to open a non-religious dictionary, read some definitions. Then we could have a serious talk. Changing words to adapt them to your own thinking... this is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Here, educate yourself if you wish. its called faith *** nut, get some or end the thread allready
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Leviathan.Hastefeet
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 1298
By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-06-04 22:05:52
OP, prove to me that you're right and we'll call it a day
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Phoenix.Degs
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Posts: 2448
By Phoenix.Degs 2010-06-04 22:06:22
Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Many scientists are religious believers, so saying science is proof that religions are wrong is just ridiculous.
Honestly the more questions that get answered in every single field of science just raises more and more questions.
I will say this is my true belief: I will find out when I die.
To prove others wrong or right in terms of religious belief means nothing, until you die and find out. I live my life as best I can, I make decisions based on my morals and how I was taught. On occasion have broken my morals so I guess I sinned. But whatever I make my own choices every day and I try to make the best choice when a situation happens. Wrong or right, heaven or hell, I'll find out when I die. couldnt have said it better myself!!!
Sylph.Oddin
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Posts: 1756
By Sylph.Oddin 2010-06-04 22:06:58
theist - belief in a higher, super-natural power.
atheist - belief that there is no higher, super-natural power.
Really people?...
The guy is obviously trolling.
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サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Lakshmi.Feifongwong 2010-06-04 22:07:00
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said:
-Actually it isn't an "absence of belief" it is a belief that there is no supernatural deity.
How is it possible for anyone to have a "belief that a belief is not a fact"? You're destroying logic. You don't even understand what a belief is.
You need to open a non-religious dictionary, read some definitions. Then we could have a serious talk. Changing words to adapt them to your own thinking... this is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Here, educate yourself if you wish.
It's your "belief" that there is no God correct? There we go.
Also I couldn't care less about your beliefs, but it is still a belief.
I find it funny that you call me pathetic when you clearly won't listen to the words of others.
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Leviathan.Hastefeet
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 1298
By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-06-04 22:07:34
Sylph.Oddin said: theist - belief in a higher, super-natural power.
atheist - belief that there is no higher, super-natural power.
Really people?...
The guy is obviously trolling.
yea, there have been like 15 other threads
Phoenix.Degs
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By Phoenix.Degs 2010-06-04 22:09:15
for someone who has so much "faith" in what he believes .. OP sure sounds unsure of himself, to make that many threads
Sylph.Oddin
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Posts: 1756
By Sylph.Oddin 2010-06-04 22:09:54
Phoenix.Degs said: Sylph.Seriin said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Caitsith.Silvaria said: Nothing about the OP particularly bashes religion. It's actually fairly logical, since too many religious people try to equate atheism with faith. It doesn't require faith to NOT believe in something, it simply requires an absence of belief.
There is no such thing as an absence of belief. Atheism is the belief that there is no supernatural being or God or afterlife. IT'S STILL A BELIEF.
No, atheism is the lack of a belief, that is what the word means. A theist believes, an atheist does not.
I have a friend that is semi athiest, he simply believes that there is something out there, but there isnt enough proof to make a sound judgement on the whole thing, so he instead believes in santa clause and the easter bunny... Asura.Daleterrence said: Oh.. I forgot something.
Also.
Phoenix.Degs said: I have a friend that is semi athiest, he simply believes that there is something out there, but there isnt enough proof to make a sound judgement on the whole thing, so he instead believes in santa clause and the easter bunny...
This is me. I agree there is something out there greater than us, only logical there would be. However I'm on the fence to if anything like a god exists.
This is known as Agnostic.
Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
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Posts: 1097
By Lakshmi.Feifongwong 2010-06-04 22:12:06
Sylph.Oddin said: theist - belief in a higher, super-natural power.
atheist - belief that there is no higher, super-natural power.
Really people?...
The guy is obviously trolling.
Yes I 100% agree, I'm personally not very religious myself, but I hate preachy atheists more than anyone preaching religion. My reason being is Atheist go around preaching their so called "non-belief"... I think you would only do this if you truly believe in something and are trying to help... So at least I can understand a religious preacher a little. Atheist preachers are just hypocrites.
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By Lakshmi.Feifongwong 2010-06-04 22:13:40
Phoenix.Degs said: for someone who has so much "faith" in what he believes .. OP sure sounds unsure of himself, to make that many threads
lol that's the perfect phrase for what I've been thinking
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By Asura.Daleterrence 2010-06-04 22:13:44
Sylph.Oddin said:
Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
That.. didn't make any sense to me, but okay.
Ragnarok.Psyence
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By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-06-04 22:13:50
Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: The possibility of other lifeforms somewhere doesn't void the known fact that the chance is absurdly small.
Most of the universe is chaos, if you take it as a whole. But you'll keep saying it is designed?
Can you prove that? No you can't. Where is your proof that most of the universe is chaos.
1 billion light years away our solar system would nothing but a small light to someone else. Go figure.
Hmm.... scientists are actually exploring this gigantic universe as this is written... you think all these numbers are coming out of their ***? they're trying to find life-sustainable planets, just for the hell of it. If there is one similar to earth, they think it is likely that it would be one the moons of Jupiter-like planet. Actually, not so far away from here, Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter could perhaps have some life-forms on it (similar to those discovered below Antarctica), they'd love to send a probe there to dig under the ice but it's far from being doable yet. There's more technology to observe this then you seem to realize.
Here's some info about the lifeforms they found. It doesn't need light. We used to think life without light wasn't possible. Well, it is.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/16/sea-life-recorded-beneath-antarctica-ice-sheet/
Ragnarok.Psyence
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Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-06-04 22:14:43
Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Phoenix.Degs said: for someone who has so much "faith" in what he believes .. OP sure sounds unsure of himself, to make that many threads
lol that's the perfect phrase for what I've been thinking
Dude... being unsure of yourself is not a negative thing... o_O
What did you learn in school -_-
 Leviathan.Novax
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 3826
By Leviathan.Novax 2010-06-04 22:16:02
i learned that 2+2=4 always that i am sure of. What about you?
Yeah there's something out there, in space, called aliens.
Sylph.Oddin
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1756
By Sylph.Oddin 2010-06-04 22:17:22
Asura.Daleterrence said: Sylph.Oddin said:
Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
That.. didn't make any sense to me, but okay.
Basically it means you believe there's a higher order out there but not necessarily a higher order that focuses on one specific religion or even anything we could comprehend.
Leviathan.Hastefeet
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 1298
By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-06-04 22:17:26
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: The possibility of other lifeforms somewhere doesn't void the known fact that the chance is absurdly small.
Most of the universe is chaos, if you take it as a whole. But you'll keep saying it is designed?
Can you prove that? No you can't. Where is your proof that most of the universe is chaos.
1 billion light years away our solar system would nothing but a small light to someone else. Go figure.
Hmm.... scientists are actually exploring this gigantic universe as this is written... you think all these numbers are coming out of their ***? they're trying to find life-sustainable planets, just for the hell of it. If there is one similar to earth, they think it is likely that it would be one the moons of Jupiter-like planet. Actually, not so far away from here, Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter could perhaps have some life-forms on it (similar to those discovered below Antarctica), they'd love to send a probe there to dig under the ice but it's far from being doable yet. There's more technology to observe this then you seem to realize.
Here's some info about the lifeforms they found. It doesn't need light. We used to think life without light wasn't possible. Well, it is.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/16/sea-life-recorded-beneath-antarctica-ice-sheet/
Scientists are exploring our gigantic universe atm? orly? last i heard our satellites haven't gone past the far reaches of our solar system let alone galaxy.
You can't exactly for sure prove life is somewhere without being there, it's all a huge hunch, might be life, but maybe not.
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サーバ: Lakshmi
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Posts: 1097
By Lakshmi.Feifongwong 2010-06-04 22:18:05
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Phoenix.Degs said: for someone who has so much "faith" in what he believes .. OP sure sounds unsure of himself, to make that many threads
lol that's the perfect phrase for what I've been thinking
Dude... being unsure of yourself is not a negative thing... o_O
What did you learn in school -_-
Probably more than you as I'm very open to ideas. I know by now you think I'm another "religious nut" by your thinking, but I'm not. Like I said I hate Atheist preachers because they are hypocritical.
I'm not religious, I've never been to church in my entire life and I've read but a few pages from the bible. Your arguments for your so called "absence of belief" are extremely weak, so why I would I "believe" your opinion over anyone Else's? Can you explain that to me in a logical manner?
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-06-04 22:18:32
Wait so is there a god or no?
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Leviathan.Hastefeet
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By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-06-04 22:18:36
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Phoenix.Degs said: for someone who has so much "faith" in what he believes .. OP sure sounds unsure of himself, to make that many threads
lol that's the perfect phrase for what I've been thinking
Dude... being unsure of yourself is not a negative thing... o_O
What did you learn in school -_-
When your trying to argue about something I think it's best to know what you're talking about
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Ragnarok.Psyence
サーバ: Ragnarok
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By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-06-04 22:20:39
Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said:
-Actually it isn't an "absence of belief" it is a belief that there is no supernatural deity.
How is it possible for anyone to have a "belief that a belief is not a fact"? You're destroying logic. You don't even understand what a belief is.
You need to open a non-religious dictionary, read some definitions. Then we could have a serious talk. Changing words to adapt them to your own thinking... this is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Here, educate yourself if you wish.
It's your "belief" that there is no God correct? There we go.
Also I couldn't care less about your beliefs, but it is still a belief.
I find it funny that you call me pathetic when you clearly won't listen to the words of others.
I don't believe that there is no God...
What's the point of believing that?
Leviathan.Novax
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 3826
By Leviathan.Novax 2010-06-04 22:21:30
What's it called if you believe you're just living to live life and then die like every other animal on our planet?
Serious question.
サーバ: Lakshmi
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Posts: 1097
By Lakshmi.Feifongwong 2010-06-04 22:21:41
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: The possibility of other lifeforms somewhere doesn't void the known fact that the chance is absurdly small.
Most of the universe is chaos, if you take it as a whole. But you'll keep saying it is designed?
Can you prove that? No you can't. Where is your proof that most of the universe is chaos.
1 billion light years away our solar system would nothing but a small light to someone else. Go figure.
Hmm.... scientists are actually exploring this gigantic universe as this is written... you think all these numbers are coming out of their ***? they're trying to find life-sustainable planets, just for the hell of it. If there is one similar to earth, they think it is likely that it would be one the moons of Jupiter-like planet. Actually, not so far away from here, Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter could perhaps have some life-forms on it (similar to those discovered below Antarctica), they'd love to send a probe there to dig under the ice but it's far from being doable yet. There's more technology to observe this then you seem to realize.
Here's some info about the lifeforms they found. It doesn't need light. We used to think life without light wasn't possible. Well, it is.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/16/sea-life-recorded-beneath-antarctica-ice-sheet/
Your reply actually proved my point that it might be more likely than we think. We have the ability to see very far away, and we're starting to be able to detect other planets but only the large ones like gas giants. Your reply didn't negate my point...
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By Lakshmi.Feifongwong 2010-06-04 22:22:19
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said:
-Actually it isn't an "absence of belief" it is a belief that there is no supernatural deity.
How is it possible for anyone to have a "belief that a belief is not a fact"? You're destroying logic. You don't even understand what a belief is.
You need to open a non-religious dictionary, read some definitions. Then we could have a serious talk. Changing words to adapt them to your own thinking... this is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Here, educate yourself if you wish.
It's your "belief" that there is no God correct? There we go.
Also I couldn't care less about your beliefs, but it is still a belief.
I find it funny that you call me pathetic when you clearly won't listen to the words of others.
I don't believe that there is no God...
What's the point of believing that?
That's what an atheist is...
Ragnarok.Psyence
サーバ: Ragnarok
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Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-06-04 22:22:52
Leviathan.Hastefeet said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Phoenix.Degs said: for someone who has so much "faith" in what he believes .. OP sure sounds unsure of himself, to make that many threads
lol that's the perfect phrase for what I've been thinking
Dude... being unsure of yourself is not a negative thing... o_O
What did you learn in school -_-
When your trying to argue about something I think it's best to know what you're talking about The trouble with the world is that the stupid are so confident while the intelligent are full of doubt.
- Bertrand Russell
The universe is immense. The only tiny spot we know that can sustain life is on Earth. Our existence spans a minuscule fraction of the time Earth will have been around before it gets destroyed by the Sun. If the preposterously small probability of life appearing by chance needs to be demonstrated, we are the living proof.
And even then, we're not all that wonderful. Our "superior" intelligence often remains questionable. We're not even necessarily going to evolve "towards the better" since that would require, according to natural selection, smart people to make more babies than people with lower IQ, for an infinite period of time. Perhaps we're even nearing a peak in terms of global human intelligence.
Considering how the entire universe is filled with chaos and how we're doomed to disappear eventually, how is our absurdly lucky and miserable existence in this universe supposed to serve as evidence for design? The more you look around us, the further you manage to reach out and explore, the more you see how it's actually quite probable that life would happen once in this big mess of colliding galaxies and dying stars.
If some gods really created this chaotic and lifeless universe around us, just to put life on 0.00000000000001% of it, and for such a silly amount of time. If they supposedly did it for us to better enjoy their own supernatural dimension after we die, they're not very skilled at this "creation" stuff. They should quit.
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Most creationist arguments do not describe atheism properly. Atheism simply involves not believing in a god. It's not even something that needs to proven. It's not an ideology. It's not a belief. Neither is it incompatible with agnosticism. Most atheists are agnostic too, because agnosticism follows logic.
It's an absence of belief in a supernatural deity. Nothing particularly special.
Believers are so used to believing in stuff that it's hard for most to grab the simple concept of atheism. One may argue that beliefs are natural. Of course, but they're not to be taken too seriously. Since they lack empirical evidence, they have a high chance of being wrong. Because of his lack of belief in a deity, an atheist could even wish for a god to exist (and have tons of other unrelated beliefs), and remain an atheist. Atheism shouldn't even need a definition. It is the default mindset for any baby when they're born. Also, it's impossible not to be an atheist towards at least a majority of gods. Worshiping all the gods ever invented, all at once, would quickly lead anyone to despair.
But if we're going to argue about something, please try to debate this (without needing any kind of faith-based argument) :
Being unable to prove the non-existence of anything, is perfectly normal, and doesn't prove the existence of something. You can try to reason this way, but will automatically fail, because trying to prove a negative is ridiculous. Being unable to prove a belief wrong changes nothing to the fact that a belief is fallible.
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