Guns Vs Bows

I did dont worry about me, I can read. What is being is said is carry all 3 weapons each has their use and ranger should have capped skills merrited or otherwise. Read your own quote train man and tell me anywhere it says fully capped and merrited archery and marksmanship. k

You came to realise this on page one yourself... then you said...
So I replied because youre beating a dead horse.

Funny how one persons perspective and their way of reading something requires them to call someone else a retard... yet you are not an NA player.. this i find shocking.

don't GUN ignore STORE TP? since gun is @ 20 TP per hit, and yes gun can be good DMG but you should also put COST per DMG, gun for sure loose on it. Kclub/Gun right on, otherwise i say Bow >> Gun by experience.

Retard was a bit OTT not common for me to be rude... but seriously man totally didnt see why you said "and you have capped archery and marksmanship merits because?" shortly after realising that this ...

Ramuh.Ilvex said:
what self respecting ranger doesn't have marksmanship and archery capped?

DIDNT mean merits only capped without them. I guess its also how I read it partly.

Either way im no rng mine is only 66 but status bolts and guns im sure would still have their uses even if you lacked 8/8 merits 16skill that u got in archery. 16 skill isnt that much that it would warrant not using status bolts im guessing.

I always went with Bow & arrows, and did great with it!
I'm a woodworking person, so I get to make the arrows cheap!
Using 6 hit TP set with Vali's, as Rng/War, and I have a lot if fun playing it!
I also do lot of damage, and have to hold a lot for it (note: I don't do HNMs)

I'll probably try guns soon (using less of ammo because of delay cover a part of cost difference, and I can sell my arrows).
I'll let you know later which one I like better.
(Beating other gun/bow rangers you seen prove nothing about what weapon is better. Gear and skills and timing/habits affect a lot the results.)

That is most certainly not the case. Store TP affects Gun as much as it does Bow. It's just a lot easier to get an X hit build with a Gun because of its higher delay (eg. With Hellfire +1 and /SAM, you need just a Rajas Ring to get 5 hit.)

As for cost, I don't want this to seem like a troll or an insult, but in my opinion that shouldn't be a factor. Ranger is an expensive job, and I think anyone who opts to use the weaker weapon simply because it's cheaper might be better off playing another job.

There's nothing wrong with it, and I wouldn't ever call someone out for it... But cost shouldn't be what decides it. I mean, heck. People use bows just because they prefer the animation. That's perfectly fine.

Most of the math I've seen neglects the difference in delay on ammo, silver bullets have a delay of 240 while arrows have a delay of 90 for reload time (time between shots) which would skew any results in favor for gun. Also, people neglect that hellfire+1 and ebow have the same tp/hit if you're using skadi chausses. Also skews results in favor of hellfire. STR vs AGI affects gun and bow differently as well, and I've never seen that taken into consideration

Huh?

With 0 STP, ebow requires 8 hits to get 100%, but with rajas ring and skadi chausses it's 7 hits to get 100% tp

With 0 STP Hellfire+1 requires 7 hits to get 100% tp bur with rajas ring and skadi chausses it's still 7 hits for 100%

Same thing goes for /sam but it's one hit less on all of the calculations, so if you're using skadi and rajas while doing the comparison, they get the same tp per hit

Why comparing both weapons with this SPECIFIC 2 pieces is an argument? This being great STP setup on bow and useless STP setup on gun prove nothing.
What's your point?

Ok, what other STP gear other than this are you using on gun?

Thats not right, i was talking COST per DMG and not about how the job is expensive, RDM and BLM can do better if they use Vile Elexir / Vile Elexir+1, don't mean they will.

spending 10x the gil on ammo just to get couple more dmg not gonna worth it, at this point there is zillion better place you could put that gil and get your RNG a lil better. That why i stated the Kclub/Gun, this for sure work better. Don't get me wrong, Kclub RNG will fail on HNM, but that player can EZ level DRK and have hell fun for hnm, for other stuff like dynamis, salvage, einherjar, merite PT ect, RNG Kclub will own big time, so far no Relic @ all can beat it, i saw a lots on fenrir trying out dmg phenom, none ever get even close to it.

Most of the data comparisons are comparing naked gun vs naked bow, that's just an unfair comparison. You have to compare maxed our bow setup vs maxed out gun setup excluding kclub because that's a class of it's own. The reason I compare using those 2 pieces is that they're really the only decent stp pieces for rng that doesn't require massive sacrifice to use them.

tbh if you look @ first question:


Don't you think answer is ez as: Ebow, Ebow... Cost, '"casual" play', 'quests/missions'

No way end-game absulutly need GUN.

Few options: like Mirke wardecors, Mekki Shakki, Rose strap, Brutal earring.
The same options you'll use if you want a little more STP while building TP, to allow yourself to not WS in Skadi.

How many STP you need on Hellfire+1 to reach the 6-hit set?

You have to use the STP gear on weaponskills as well to maintain the tp/hit. If you're using mirke with STP, brutal, and rose strap during weaponskills your ws damage is going to suffer. That's still neglecting ammo delay in the math. Point is you can't just compare naked bow vs naked gun. And I personally haven't seen anyone do accurate math on the best setup for bow vs the best setup for gun

I when I said "The same options you'll use if you want a little more STP while building TP", I was talking about Vali's WS (change nothing, but I wanted to clarify).

I think it's unfair to compare both with just Rajas & Skadi legs, the way you think it's unfair to compare both w/o STP gear. I personally like Vali's 6-hit a LOT and am using it.
At least now, I understand you don't just say "Bow > Gun because you can 6-hit in EBow with rajas & skadi legs, but can't do that in Hellfire+1". Thanks for explaining =)

Any Hellfire+1 rng wanna show us some nice 6-hit sets?
I'm curious too about it (and compare 6-hit EBow VS 6-hit Hellfire+1)

[Will be back in 1h, don't expect fast answer from me now =P]

/sam all you need for 5 hit HF is rajas. /sam all you need for 6 hit ebow is rajas.


any other sub and all you need for 5 hit HF is TP: mekki/rose/rajas/skadi. You can use STR pants on ws.

any other sub for ebow and you will need mekki/rajas/skadi and can ws in str pants. So you gain 3 str from the grip and still have 6 hit vs 5 hit.



The math favors gun. I wish it didn't, but unless you are fighting a mob where you can comfortably stand at 10' but not at 6' (there aren't many), the math favors gun.

@ everyone talking about 20 TP ceiling, that is like 3 years old now. I suppose you think the TP floor is still 5 TP? They patched it forever ago and you can get more than 20 TP and less than 5 TP now.

@ anyone complaining about cost of ammunition, level a different job. If you can't stomach the cost of ammo (at least Demons for archery TP and Silvers fulltime for guns) then maybe RNG isn't for you. It's only going to get worse from here on out when they expand the level cap - expect to use a lot of ammo leveling up.

@ anyone saying that firing two bullets at a time isn't worth the cost, for the price of an Annihilator I could have 17,400 STACKS of silver bullets. And don't even get me started on Yoichi, the most expensive relic of all. The Dragonmaw is perfect for serious RNGs like myself who don't have the resources to do a relic.

Edit: Nice ranger btw.

HF+1 /SAM + Rajas = 6 hits, not 5.
You need an additional 11 STP after that to get a 5 hit.

Any other sub you need an additional 4STP beyond rajas to make a 6 hit setup.

You can easily match both scenarios just using rajas/skadi on ebow.

Still neglecting ammo delay lol

HF and silver bullets are 900 delay. 17.25 a shot. You need 17 STP to give over 20 a shot. /sam gives 15 by itself. 20 a shot is 6 hit? You are wrong. Do the math. The math favors gun.

20/shot is a 5hit

wait nvm, you used a question mark

Hmm I've always been under the impression ammo delay wasn't counted towards STP, let me rework the math on that

And what next? anyone can't use Vile/Vile+1 do another job, don't play mage job. Sorry but you get me wrong for sure buddy. Ebow can do every kind of event whit NP @ all and the DMG is enought awesome to not even look @ GUN.

Funny how ppl turn it out 'play another job' like is the ultimate answer.

Too bad is free world, choice to ppl to save they gil for better stuff or spend in something that wont even make a difference.

What's unfair about that? So long as you have the same circumstances for both weapons, it's a fair test.

ammo delay does count toward tp/hit, but NOT toward actual delay. This is based solely off your weapon which is why high delay ammo (i.e. bullets) are more beneficial.


Vali's bow after snapshot gear and merits takes 6.68 seconds to fire (including 'free phase' etc). 6 shots to ws is 40.11 seconds from ws to ws from a 105 damage weapon (with demon arrows)

HF+1 after snapshot gear and merits takes 7.84 seconds to fire. 5 shots to ws is 39.22 seconds between ws with a 123 damage weapon (with silver bullets).


It's the nature of ammo delay not affecting actual real time delay and the static 'free period' that is static after you shoot that tilts the math toward gun.

It's unfair because STR, AGI, snapshot, rapid shot, and STP will affect gun and bow differently. So you're not really getting an accurate test unless you compare the best of each.

Look at your post. Now look at my post. Now look at your post. And again at my post. Sadly your post isn't my post. But if it had math instead of subjectivity (and perhaps the scent of Old Spice) it could be my post.

Did you know I'm riding this horse backwards?