Hello, Would You Be Willing To Help Settle A Bet?

I'm a 75 DNC. I take it to a lot of things. Why do they (LS) let me take it? It sure as hell isn't a DD. Wanna know why DNC is? It's a support job. Think along the lines of BRD and COR, but with 10% haste and potent/fast cures. That's it. We can't DD for ***, sorry. If you're meriting DD-esque merits, you're doing it wrong.

any job that can solo darkness or light, without an ick wing...can DD lol...so yes...and yes Dnc can if you max reverse flourish...Pyricc Kleos >> Evis is darkness

Gearing to DD is gearing to hit and hit fast(and hard I:E not for 0 at least), Hitting more and faster = more TP, so you do technically have to gear at least FOR DD no? But I agree, I do not think DNC is a Damage Dealer if it is it is low on the list, It is a nice job to have around, but not being able to Samba/Waltz Alliance hurts them, Love duoing with them though.

And misleading title is misleading D:< What is this bet!?!?

No.

So near every job can DD?

That is the silliest requirement I have ever heard. Oh I betcha a blm/drg or blm/sam could solo darkness if they had a merc pole and got lucky.

Hell a smn/sam could do a 3 step darkness OR light with there avatar easy

Ruma's right. To DNC properly you must gear FOR DD... but you're not a DD. Sorry.

As far as I see it, the FFXI term "DD" refers to not only just being a good damage dealer in merit parties, but also a good damage dealer in endgame.

DNC is by far-and-away the worst job for almost all endgame events, so it fails 50% of the requirement. Even if it manages to be the best DD in the game on Greater Colibri, it would still get an F for the test.

That being said, as far as Merit parties go, there are good DD DNCs, but that's rarer than PUP, because at least on PUP, there's no downside to kicking ***. If you want to be a good DD DNC, you have to drop waltzes and Samba altogether, and at that point you're just as useful as a melee RDM.

That's not to say that there aren't any good melee RDMs, but at that point, if you want to DD, switch to a DD job. The same applies for DNC. No one will invite you to anything for your damage potential. It will always be for Haste Samba or Curing Waltz, and needing to stop those altogether just to DD, well you're less than borderline useful in that situation.





Tl;Dr: If you're solo, in Campaign, or messing around, you can DD. But if you're doing something in a group, do your actual job or you wind up being more of a detriment than a benefit.

As far as Bird partying at 75 goes, I think my DNC has pretty much the same functionality as my COR. DNC probably slightly outdoes COR for damage in that regard, its just a toss up on whether you want COR EXP/ATK roll over slightly better damage,10% Haste and 5% Mob DEF down.

That said, I've also had some of my best parties in terms of xp/hour in a group of BRD COR DDx3 DNC, where I've had to cover healing. Obviously that ganks my already mediocore DDing even moreso from sitting on TP for Waltzes, but DNC can easily stay on top of healing/haste samba and ghettoing Red Mage's job pretty well, again at the sake of 100% foregoing any pretence of DDing.

I think it's been said already, but I personally don't consider DNC to be a DD in any serious way, it's much better summarised like COR can be played, as a support (or support/healing in Dancer's case) class that just happens to contribute low to middling damage as a byproduct, really. That isn't to say the damage doesn't help, mind you.

Im not a 75 dnc but i know several and they all agree they are frontline healers or support job, ya gotta admit wild flurish is fun and useful. (to answer the question No dnc is not a dd)

i have DNC at 75 and the only reason you even poke things with your daggers at all is to gain TP for support

in short.

no.

(...and if it helps justify having the job, i wish i never took it to 75 lol.)

No

I wouldn't call it a DD, but I'd call it a damaging support.

Wild flourish is neither fun nor useful... sorry. :/

Best DD job ever

Eh, Wild Flourish isn't terrible if meriting with SAMs on things like Mamools where they're using GK; if you can actually still get SAMs nowadays that will tell you when Sekkanoki is up... Its not bad for zerging THF Mamool down with 3-stage Light WF~>Gekko~>Kasha, instead of them either ganking themselves damage wise with Rana~>Gekko or only getting Fusion for +60% dmg vs 150% Light.

Granted thats a pretty limited use for it, so I guess you've got me there... again though, even the best uses of WF aren't helping you personally to DD as DNC, it's being used as a support ability.

I'd class dance with rdm, sure you can solo but you can't kill very fast.

As for pouting about only yes or no, you're asking for an opinion, any one who voices theirs is gonna want to back it up.

@Bez: I never thought about that. I never merit on Mamools due to Remora having a pretty low meritting population whenever I do go, so I'm always at Birds. Still, I'd much rather be using my two steps for reverse flourish than on a WF :/

@Usua: RDM can kill a helluva lot faster than DNC I'd say depending on the situation. :<

probably, but I'd still class them together.
Both have support buff/debuffs both have some melee potential, and both can heal, though rdm can heal better.

I guess that's true. And RDM can do everything better ; -; except insta-potent-heals. They can't do that very well. *nods*...

Chainspell begs to differ

Trance begs to differ! :<

Trance is a Dancer's Two Hour Ability.
While active, the TP cost for all Sambas, Waltzes, and Steps is reduced to zero, making them free to use as long as recast timers permit.
When active, reduces the recast of Waltzes to 6 seconds.

I have no idea why Red Mage was the only jack-of-all-trades job Square managed to get right in terms of "better than mediocre" in most of the things it can do. Dancer just fails to excel in any field despite it being multi-talented, sometimes I just think it wasn't that well planned out outside if being a viable solo friendly sub for melee classes that were constantly getting crushed/getting huge downtimes via EP/DC mobs.

The problem with it being a Hybrid job is that it just doesn't "do all of them" as well compared to a proper job of that pidgeon hole. Sadly it isn't within the mindset of most people to allow for any wiggle room in the DDx3 Supportx2 Healer merit setup, and Dancer, unlike Red Mage, which not only can do everything, but actually do some of it better than the "main" jobs of that caste, isn't outright good enough at any one of those aspects to fully fill in that role, outside of being able to main heal birds, and birds alone; DNC having a hard time being able to keep debuffs off AND heal due to that horrible shared recast in a party that is mixing in Wivre vs a RDM SCH or WHM, but that completely nullifies you in the DDing aspect.

Dancer DDing is about on par with a fairly decent Multi-hit weapon/Martial Gun Corsair on birds, you pretty much have to Saber Dance and Azoth/Adder instead of Dagger/Joy to actually beat a good Corsair for DDing, which makes you useless in the healing aspect. Again, as soon as you're using Saber Dance to slightly best a Corsair for DD, whilst being a worse support class for it.

If DNC had gotten a JA similar to Scholar's Accession charge where it made the next dance AoE it would fix a LOT of the main problems I actually have with it as a healing class.... horrible shared recast notwithstanding.. on anything thats not winged and pink; ditto making Haste Samba's Baseline pre-merits 10% it would actually make it worth investing in a DNC over a COR or "proper" haster. But as it stands, DNC has to compromise far too much for far too little to become anything better than passable at any one aspect of the healer/support/tank/DD spectrum. Which is terrible really, because I love the job, just seems so much more thought could have gone into it really, especially with the sparse/horrible JA spread beyond level 45 or so.

DNC is 10% Haste. 10% Haste in good PTs would be a 26.4% increase in melee damage (can show the math if you really care >.>). But no not a DD.

not a dd
cant compete with real dds, but can with gimp ones

No




@OP, you are saying 2 different things, You are asking if its a DD job, and then saying its a DD in your mind. Its kinda 2 different things.

Dancer, can DD, therefor it can be a damage dealer, however, its not a DD job/class, its a support class. Being able to do something, and being created specifically to do something are 2 different things.

A pld can DD and be considered a DD, but a pld is not a DD class though.

another example: a drk can be a tank, but its not a tanking class.



This could be why you are getting different answers than you were thinking you would. If you are asking what job class it is, you will get a "no" if you are implying its a DD class. If you are asking can it be a DD, you will get mixed answers, or answers based on experience.

The actual definition of "remarkably gimp DD" is "someone out-parsed by DNC or COR" isn't it? I have near-capped haste gear on DNC(missing+1 Dusk Hands for 25%),and Azoth/Adder/Joy/PCC ect and I still go about even with the most laughable of STR Ring, Domaru and GK SAM/NINs. Not by much, but still, I'd hate to see a 2H DD setup in a way that I could beat them comfortably on DNC, DD Wise.

& hi hito!