The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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2010-06-21
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2018-02-05 12:32:34  
That's almost exactly my current set with one exception. I use Sulevia's Cuisses +2 right now instead of Pummeler's. I have two pieces of Argosy +1, but its feet and legs. I've been using Pummeler's Calligae +3, so with no set bonus I've been using Sulevia's Cuisses +2 instead of Argosy.
 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2018-02-06 12:43:46  
So I simply wanted to share this album bc it has been an idea for me for awhile. I love my warrior, I love my dmg out put, I love when i am able to swap weapons and survive pulling hate, I have loved this job when it was down and not used to when it is highly wanted. Today I finished Conqueror, which for me is my only mythic, I never thought I would do one. So here is the album.

https://imgur.com/a/QgdBJ
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By olson2189 2018-02-06 13:15:42  
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Search function is having trouble finding it its in this forum, lemme see if i can share it See if this works I uploaded mine. By mine i mean its all Byrth's work i just included some gear and such I am sure it could use work, but it gives a general idea for starting off.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19YIAvnHiitx2YSWa-jQ31GlRCgteuQgK/view?usp=sharing

Is that actually up to date? My understanding was that it did not reflect some pDif updates that were made quite some time ago.
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By Afania 2018-02-06 13:17:36  
olson2189 said: »
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Search function is having trouble finding it its in this forum, lemme see if i can share it See if this works I uploaded mine. By mine i mean its all Byrth's work i just included some gear and such I am sure it could use work, but it gives a general idea for starting off.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19YIAvnHiitx2YSWa-jQ31GlRCgteuQgK/view?usp=sharing

Is that actually up to date? My understanding was that it did not reflect some pDif updates that were made quite some time ago.


Byrths version were updated after pDif change.
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By olson2189 2018-02-07 17:22:31  
Afania said: »
olson2189 said: »
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Search function is having trouble finding it its in this forum, lemme see if i can share it See if this works I uploaded mine. By mine i mean its all Byrth's work i just included some gear and such I am sure it could use work, but it gives a general idea for starting off.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19YIAvnHiitx2YSWa-jQ31GlRCgteuQgK/view?usp=sharing

Is that actually up to date? My understanding was that it did not reflect some pDif updates that were made quite some time ago.


Byrths version were updated after pDif change.

Thanks for the clarification. It wasn't the pDif change that I was thinking about, but rather my understanding was that the sheets overstated white damage. Savael - thoughts?
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By Afania 2018-02-07 18:29:32  
To my knowledge All sheets overstats white damage. If you want more accurate version you'd have to poke Austar for Sim with me ._.
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 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2018-02-07 18:31:36  
Afania said: »
To my knowledge All sheets overstats white damage. If you want more accurate version you'd have to poke Austar for Sim with me ._.

have been too lol
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-07 19:40:51  
Afania said: »
To my knowledge All sheets overstats white damage. If you want more accurate version you'd have to poke Austar for Sim with me ._.

Would be interesting because of how many modes WAR's damage can operate in. Warcry is a huge boost to damage for any WS with near linear scaling but only lasts 60s out of ~5 min. Length of fight and presence of a second WAR would greatly effect how large of an increase it is. You have starting conditions, different weapons favor different starting techniques which can have a large effect on anything under 3 minutes. You got situation stuff like MS Stardiver spam on Telos with a THF doing Rudras. Then there is retaliation and how we handle the bonus attack rounds that offers us.
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By olson2189 2018-02-07 22:03:11  
I don't think Austar has made a sim for war yet. I thought it was only the WAR dps spreadsheet that overstated white; good to know that it's all of them, thanks for that. No one knows why though??? Seems like it should just be a broken in one of the formulas, no? I thought white damage calc's were fully known, barring the random element of course, which could be reflected in spreadsheets.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-02-08 00:27:11  
I don't think it's the damage formulas that are the issue, since WS damage is pretty close to my results as well. My best guess is just how it's all handled in regards to everything being an average.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-08 07:08:20  
From my understanding the spreedsheets worked on cycles, X number of hits average to WS then doing the WS damage and treating the whole thing as a block of damage. Somehow the melee damage was being vastly inflated in respect to the WS damage during the computing of the cycle damage. It means they are still great for tweaking what's best for X WS under Y conditions, but should never be used as absolutes. Especially for a job like WAR where there are so many different methods to use to murder pixels.
 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2018-02-08 09:50:53  
That was what I thought too, kind of a situational get a general idea sort of thing.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-02-08 09:54:34  
I don't think the Dark Knight spreadsheet overstates white damage, for what it's worth. Are all of the DPS spreadsheets from the same base?
 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2018-02-08 10:25:51  
Fairly sure they all stem from Mote's originals, just altered and revamped.
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2018-02-08 11:24:01  
Same thing I tell everyone when dealing with spreadsheets is to always take the results with caution and understanding. They are to be taken as GUIDELINES Not Gospel. From whet I’ve observed so far, they’ve been pretty consistant to field testing. So the elephant comes into the room when the recorded DPS doesn’t match the projected DPS.

I’m almost certain that the Spreadsheets are showing you Peak DPS. Back when KParser was around, you could very accurately record DPS over time and see when and where people fell off due to deaths or afk or w/e. Apps like Scoreboard do not; they only show you the current Average DPS. So what I see a lot in zergs and Ambuscade and such is that my DPS gets very close to the projected numbers but only for a breif moment before a debuff hits or something get’s dispelled or I pull hate and have to switch to Hybrid, etc and then it starts falling back down, sometimes quite rapidly.

I believe the spreadsheets are in fact working as intended; people just have to keep an eye on the situations that those projections apply to.


I miss KParser.. Can one of the App-Guru’s make an Addon version pretty please?
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-08 15:16:42  
Valefor.Yandaime said: »
I’m almost certain that the Spreadsheets are showing you Peak DPS

Nah it's misfactoring melee damage vs WS damage in pure DPS, which actually does the exact opposite in today's meta. Raw damage is now largely determined by how fast someone can vomit out high powered WS's, melee damage still counts but is relatively small in comparison. The simulations were more accurate, though like all things it depends on the conditions that are simulated. Great thing about sims is that it's easier to code in various starting conditions then it is trying to hack it into a spreadsheet.
 Cerberus.Mrkillface
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By Cerberus.Mrkillface 2018-02-08 18:50:46  
Valefor.Yandaime said: »


I miss KParser.. Can one of the App-Guru’s make an Addon version pretty please?

Man I miss that app.
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2018-02-08 19:37:45  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Valefor.Yandaime said: »
I’m almost certain that the Spreadsheets are showing you Peak DPS

Nah it's misfactoring melee damage vs WS damage in pure DPS, which actually does the exact opposite in today's meta. Raw damage is now largely determined by how fast someone can vomit out high powered WS's, melee damage still counts but is relatively small in comparison. The simulations were more accurate, though like all things it depends on the conditions that are simulated. Great thing about sims is that it's easier to code in various starting conditions then it is trying to hack it into a spreadsheet.


Well I’m willing to grant that it might be misworking something somewhere but.. where? It seems to be using all the correct formulas and delays. So unless it’s showing values equal to being able to WS and Melee at the same time, I just don’t know.

My whole thing is that I don’t wanna say it’s broken if I can’t say exactly how.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-02-08 19:53:59  
my guess it just overestimates how many attacks you actually do. I can't say for certain that's the case, though, since I don't use them and I'm not really an excel expert.

just going to add a small printout to my DRG one to show an example, though. 3 QA, 5 TA, 46 DA = 1.61089 hits per round with a five hit build (WS + 4 hits):

Code
WS
1
2
WS
1
2
WS
4
WS
2
1
1
WS
2
1
WS
1
2
WS
2
1
WS
1
1
1
WS
1
1
1
WS
1
2
WS
1
1
2
WS
1
1
1
WS
2
1
WS
1
2
WS
2
1
WS
2
1
1
WS
1
1
3
WS
2
2
WS
2
2
WS
1
WS
2
2
WS
1
1
1
WS
1
1
2
WS
1
2
WS
2
1
WS
1
1
4
WS
2
1
WS
2
2
WS
1
2
WS
1
1
2
WS
1
1


Where as the sheet will assume you do 4 / 1.61 = 2.483 rounds every single time, and I believe there is an option that is set by default that makes you do another melee round 50% of the time.
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By monkey33333333 2018-02-08 20:53:11  
so for King's Justice what should i use for it DA STR or WSD and STR?
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By Afania 2018-02-08 21:59:55  
Ramuh.Austar said: »
my guess it just overestimates how many attacks you actually do. I can't say for certain that's the case, though, since I don't use them and I'm not really an excel expert.

just going to add a small printout to my DRG one to show an example, though. 3 QA, 5 TA, 46 DA = 1.61089 hits per round with a five hit build (WS + 4 hits):

Code
WS
1
2
WS
1
2
WS
4
WS
2
1
1
WS
2
1
WS
1
2
WS
2
1
WS
1
1
1
WS
1
1
1
WS
1
2
WS
1
1
2
WS
1
1
1
WS
2
1
WS
1
2
WS
2
1
WS
2
1
1
WS
1
1
3
WS
2
2
WS
2
2
WS
1
WS
2
2
WS
1
1
1
WS
1
1
2
WS
1
2
WS
2
1
WS
1
1
4
WS
2
1
WS
2
2
WS
1
2
WS
1
1
2
WS
1
1


Where as the sheet will assume you do 4 / 1.61 = 2.483 rounds every single time, and I believe there is an option that is set by default that makes you do another melee round 50% of the time.


Where did you see such thing lol. I even opened mine again to check and hit/rnd cell under the data tab and it doesn't seem abnormally high.

Based on the numbers in this post its probably true that white damage is a bit higher on spreadsheet, but I doubt it's THAT much higher and it's certainly not 50% more melee rounds.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/130811-Revenge-of-the-RQT-DRG-dickswinging
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-08 22:02:11  
Afania said: »
Where did you see such thing lol. I even opened mine again to check and hit/rnd cell doesn't seem abnormally high.

The OverTP option, its a percentage of the time it adds an extra hit to account for slow human reaction.
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By Afania 2018-02-08 22:11:29  
I tried to change over-TP rnds from 0 to 0.5 (I usually keep it at 0), it didn't change hit/rnd number either, and the DPS only decrease a bit after the changes.

I usually notice glitches whenever I use spreadsheet and report to maintainers, if there's something seriously wrong with white damage that results in 50% increase it should be very noticeable IMO.

The first report of white damage inflation on spreadsheets came from SAM job discussions, maybe it has something to do with spreadsheet not handling zanhasso properly?
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-02-08 22:48:58  
Another melee round after getting 1K, not every round.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-09 07:22:18  
Afania said: »
The first report of white damage inflation on spreadsheets came from SAM job discussions, maybe it has something to do with spreadsheet not handling zanhasso properly?

It's present on all the jobs. It only came into existence when the AG3 effects were added to the REM's and x3 damage opened on Emps. Spreedsheets had them doing much better then in actual game play.

You kinda proved it's borked when going from 0% to 50% OverTP didn't move your DPS much. What that means is that 50% of the time, when a player becomes eligible to WS, they don't wait a full attack round before doing so. I believe the sheets are doing the averages right but messing up the time component, damage must take time into consideration and can't just be fighting a monster with infinite HP.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-02-09 07:28:33  
Depending on the WS and gear, waiting an extra round often doesn't change DPS much, so that alone isn't proof that it's broken. What are the DPS changes like on a WS with no damage scaling at all?

Playing around with it on my Dark Knight Spreadsheet, adjusting over-TP seems to give reasonable results; minor DPS losses on WSs that scale well (until you start getting silly with the extra rounds), significant DPS losses on WSs that don't scale.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-09 09:00:39  
New Relic +3 head looks pretty good for WSD based WS's. Decent STR, VIT with 10% WSD and plenty of Accuracy / Attack.
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2018-02-09 11:27:59  
monkey33333333 said: »
so for King's Justice what should i use for it DA STR or WSD and STR?

< 2000 effective tp da + str
> 2000 effective tp wsd + str
 Asura.Fiasko
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By Asura.Fiasko 2018-02-16 15:20:50  
ItemSet 356670

Looking at this set to tank on warrior for things like Omen where status effects and magic damage are an issue. Any improvements that I am overlooking?

Edit: High Magic Evasion is why I choose Pummeler's +3.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-16 16:04:57  
Asura.Fiasko said: »
Any improvements that I am overlooking?

Is your goal to actually deal damage and thus hold hate or is this just a set your going to throw on real quick before something bad happenes, because right now your making giant unnecessary sacrifices in that regard,

Bravura is -20% DT, D.Ring is another 10%, Loricate Neck is -6% Moonbeam is -4% leaving on 10% left to find on one piece of gear like Sulvia's +2 body or Sovereign. Then you can use JSE cape + Ioska belt and focus on tanking through damage which is how WAR's tank.

Now if your just looking for a gear swap that's going to be used immediately before a TP move then switched out you have a decent set.
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