The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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2010-06-21
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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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By GlassyCraver 2021-03-28 02:09:09  
A second DD full over RDM makes up more than the damage you lose using Dark Shot once or twice a fight.
 Asura.Sesshmaru
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By Asura.Sesshmaru 2021-03-28 02:40:55  
I'm just talking about NIN testing in ambuscade VD, so less DD in PT is better for testing NIN performance in VD, and under 10 min including buff time with Neagling, however with Heishi with same setup more then 15min.
This is NIN guide thread not Monthly Ambuscade thread stay in topic.
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By SimonSes 2021-03-28 02:53:20  
Asura.Sesshmaru said: »
why the hate in this section against sword?

Its more of a hate to Naegling and Savage Blade than swords. SE made this weapon too good and people dont like that its better than main weapons on their job.
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 Asura.Sesshmaru
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By Asura.Sesshmaru 2021-03-28 03:12:38  
Yes it is an OP weapon it can keep up with REMA's, I feel nerf is coming.
 
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By GlassyCraver 2021-03-28 05:23:13  
They won't nerf it but they never should have implemented it the way they did. Really bad for NIN, DRG, and BRD.
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By SimonSes 2021-03-28 06:22:33  
It's not bad for DRG. It's not best for raw damage and it's even more behind for self skillchains on DRG and it adds slashing option for that job.
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By GlassyCraver 2021-03-28 07:34:18  
It is bad for DRG because it's not far behind enough. Same with BRD and Carn. SB is plenty sufficient to DD with.
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By SimonSes 2021-03-28 08:14:26  
GlassyCraver said: »
It is bad for DRG because it's not far behind enough. Same with BRD and Carn. SB is plenty sufficient to DD with.

It doesnt need to be far behind. Its enough its behind. Its far behind for self skillchain too.
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By GlassyCraver 2021-03-28 08:49:24  
Isn't it better than all non RMEA options for both DRG and NIN?

Not shining one I suppose?
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-03-28 09:31:02  
The point is ninja is the only job in the game that has it's making weapon class outperformed by a weaker weapon type in most scenarios. Don't bring up hybrid because that doesn't work for everything.

Imagine if as samurai, you could use a bow and deal more damage than great katana, not most, nearly all of the time. Even "but you can use jinpu) would be an unreasonable response to it.

Imagine if as monk, you could deal more damage with a staff than punching

Imagine if as a dark Knight, you could deal more damage with daggers than you could w great sword.

The ***just needs to be fixed and I'm tired of people saying BUT NINJA GETS BLADE CHIIIII. No dude, fix this ***, makes no sense.
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By GlassyCraver 2021-03-28 11:11:15  
Well if they do make one katana ws stronger don't link it to bloody relic
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By mostlycatless 2021-03-28 11:29:04  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
The point is ninja is the only job in the game that has it's making weapon class outperformed by a weaker weapon type in most scenarios. Don't bring up hybrid because that doesn't work for everything.

Imagine if as samurai, you could use a bow and deal more damage than great katana, not most, nearly all of the time. Even "but you can use jinpu) would be an unreasonable response to it.

Imagine if as monk, you could deal more damage with a staff than punching

Imagine if as a dark Knight, you could deal more damage with daggers than you could w great sword.

The ***just needs to be fixed and I'm tired of people saying BUT NINJA GETS BLADE CHIIIII. No dude, fix this ***, makes no sense.
Not the only job, BST is in the same situation, with Naegling typically being the best option. Add to that the additional insult of Ambuscade axe being better than REMA axes. Both weapon types could definitely use a bit of a boost to a couple WS though.
 
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 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2021-03-28 13:08:33  
Asura.Sesshmaru said: »
share with us a Screenshot of this month Ambu with 40k Blade ten and if u do please share ur ws set, Thank you.
I get rdm for distract and dispel. most cors don't use quick draw nowadays and much better to focus on dps, dispel cd is shorter.
I dont see Death penalty cor complain to other cors that use savage blade, why the hate in this section against sword? this is not wow or ffxiv each job not limited to one weapon, and that what make ffxi job system fun.


If I remember to I will? Don't really see a reason as it its not hard to push to that 40k mark with buffs though. HM/VM/MIN x3, zerk, WC, food, and debuffs should get you close to that number.

Naegling is just lazy design to me, I play ninja to use katanas. I really think they should have narrowed Naeglings scope to just 2-3 jobs.

Edit: Can drop the VM if you have RDM hasting you for another MIN or STR song as well.
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 Ifrit.Born
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By Ifrit.Born 2021-03-28 13:39:59  
"I play ninja to use katanas."
Sure you Right.
This ain't about mask or no mask...
Potatoes with a P.P. or unisex Potatoes...
This about Using 'em Katanas boy.
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By GlassyCraver 2021-03-28 15:44:34  
Bismarck.Gippali said: »
Asura.Sesshmaru said: »
share with us a Screenshot of this month Ambu with 40k Blade ten and if u do please share ur ws set, Thank you.
I get rdm for distract and dispel. most cors don't use quick draw nowadays and much better to focus on dps, dispel cd is shorter.
I dont see Death penalty cor complain to other cors that use savage blade, why the hate in this section against sword? this is not wow or ffxiv each job not limited to one weapon, and that what make ffxi job system fun.


If I remember to I will? Don't really see a reason as it its not hard to push to that 40k mark with buffs though. HM/VM/MIN x3, zerk, WC, food, and debuffs should get you close to that number.

Naegling is just lazy design to me, I play ninja to use katanas. I really think they should have narrowed Naeglings scope to just 2-3 jobs.

Edit: Can drop the VM if you have RDM hasting you for another MIN or STR song as well.
I think it should have just had the sb damage+ and not unlocked the ws.
 Leviathan.Azhura
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By Leviathan.Azhura 2021-03-28 16:24:20  
Imagine being mad that your favorite job got a powerful weapon upgrade....
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By Foxfire 2021-03-28 17:09:05  
Ifrit.Born said: »
"I play ninja to use katanas."
Sure you Right.
This ain't about mask or no mask...
Potatoes with a P.P. or unisex Potatoes...
This about Using 'em Katanas boy.


what kinda useless *** post is this
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 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2021-03-28 17:14:33  
Leviathan.Azhura said: »
Imagine being mad that your favorite job got a powerful weapon upgrade....

Not sure I really understand the thought behind this comment. Calling out lazy/sloppy designs isn't "being mad". If everyone is using the same weapon on every job, why even bother having different roles? It's lazy. A powerful weapon upgrade, as you put it, should be tailored to the specific job, not just an all-encompassing weapon.


Foxfire said: »
what kinda useless *** post is this

It's about as useless as the one right above you too.
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By Foxfire 2021-03-28 17:24:19  
listen i don't have a horse in the ninja race and yeah it's cool that a lot of jobs have feasible savage blade builds but i'll also agree that it shouldn't be their main damage source either unless it's a primary weapon option for the class (i.e. cor). ninja has never been a sword class and it's silly to pretend that it's a good thing for them.
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By GlassyCraver 2021-03-28 17:34:29  
Tbh it is op for cor too. You can do this month's ambu with 2 cor averaging 34k SB. No dedicated DD needed.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Avengers 2021-03-28 18:15:19  
Asura.Sesshmaru said: »
dress up fix it, //du blinking self always on

Thanks very much for this. New to Ninja, been getting sets and gear together, been loving it, but the blinking with the ammo has been annoying the ***out of me.
 Leviathan.Azhura
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By Leviathan.Azhura 2021-03-28 18:50:57  
Bismarck.Gippali said: »
Leviathan.Azhura said: »
Imagine being mad that your favorite job got a powerful weapon upgrade....

Not sure I really understand the thought behind this comment. Calling out lazy/sloppy designs isn't "being mad". If everyone is using the same weapon on every job, why even bother having different roles? It's lazy. A powerful weapon upgrade, as you put it, should be tailored to the specific job, not just an all-encompassing weapon.


Foxfire said: »
what kinda useless *** post is this

It's about as useless as the one right above you too.

I'm sorry that you didn't understand. I'm equally baffled that you would rather not have access to a weapon than have access to it.

If you don't want your ninja to use Naegling you can equip a different weapon. I don't see how Ninja is better off without being able to equip it though. If your clear time between Naegling and Heishi jumps 5+ minutes in this months ambu, then removing Ninja from that weapon is either going to gate you into a slower clear time or gate you into a different job.

I'm not convinced that adding Ninja to Naegling was a lazy/sloppy design--I'm glad that I have access to it, and if I wasn't then I just wouldn't use it rather than whine about it on the forums.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2021-03-28 18:59:27  
It's boring. Cor uses naegling, rng uses naegling, war uses naegling, drg uses naegling, thf uses naeging, bst uses naegling, nin uses naegling

That should make it pretty obvious that something is imbalanced.

It's the same as everyone bandwagoning cor because of how imbalanced it is
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 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2021-03-28 19:31:14  
Leviathan.Azhura said: »
Bismarck.Gippali said: »
Leviathan.Azhura said: »
Imagine being mad that your favorite job got a powerful weapon upgrade....

Not sure I really understand the thought behind this comment. Calling out lazy/sloppy designs isn't "being mad". If everyone is using the same weapon on every job, why even bother having different roles? It's lazy. A powerful weapon upgrade, as you put it, should be tailored to the specific job, not just an all-encompassing weapon.


Foxfire said: »
what kinda useless *** post is this

It's about as useless as the one right above you too.

I'm sorry that you didn't understand. I'm equally baffled that you would rather not have access to a weapon than have access to it.

If you don't want your ninja to use Naegling you can equip a different weapon. I don't see how Ninja is better off without being able to equip it though. If your clear time between Naegling and Heishi jumps 5+ minutes in this months ambu, then removing Ninja from that weapon is either going to gate you into a slower clear time or gate you into a different job.

I'm not convinced that adding Ninja to Naegling was a lazy/sloppy design--I'm glad that I have access to it, and if I wasn't then I just wouldn't use it rather than whine about it on the forums.

You good dude? You in that 15min ambu runs he is talking about? You're the only one that seems to be booty tickled. You are more than welcome to use Naegling, I don't. Just don't act like it's an awesome design that a jobs main weapon isn't being used to it's full capacity.

I don't NEED that weapon to perform well on ninja. For clear reasons I stated in a prior post, you would most likely be missing out on dps by switching to SB spam. You would literally miss ALL of the SC dmg...all of it. If this person (and not trying to knock on him) somehow made a shift that would adjust a run by 5+min there is something else wrong with that pt/setup/gear/etc. It has nothing to do with the type of weapon you are using. Which again...makes zero sense when you leave all the added sc dmg out (repeating myself, I know).
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 Odin.Phillytool
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By Odin.Phillytool 2021-03-28 19:39:34  
On top of distract, rdm can do 35-40 k sb. Your an idiot to not take a rdm.
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 Leviathan.Azhura
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By Leviathan.Azhura 2021-03-28 19:46:30  
Bismarck.Gippali said: »
Leviathan.Azhura said: »
Bismarck.Gippali said: »
Leviathan.Azhura said: »
Imagine being mad that your favorite job got a powerful weapon upgrade....

Not sure I really understand the thought behind this comment. Calling out lazy/sloppy designs isn't "being mad". If everyone is using the same weapon on every job, why even bother having different roles? It's lazy. A powerful weapon upgrade, as you put it, should be tailored to the specific job, not just an all-encompassing weapon.


Foxfire said: »
what kinda useless *** post is this

It's about as useless as the one right above you too.

I'm sorry that you didn't understand. I'm equally baffled that you would rather not have access to a weapon than have access to it.

If you don't want your ninja to use Naegling you can equip a different weapon. I don't see how Ninja is better off without being able to equip it though. If your clear time between Naegling and Heishi jumps 5+ minutes in this months ambu, then removing Ninja from that weapon is either going to gate you into a slower clear time or gate you into a different job.

I'm not convinced that adding Ninja to Naegling was a lazy/sloppy design--I'm glad that I have access to it, and if I wasn't then I just wouldn't use it rather than whine about it on the forums.

You good dude? You in that 15min ambu runs he is talking about? You're the only one that seems to be booty tickled. You are more than welcome to use Naegling, I don't. Just don't act like it's an awesome design that a jobs main weapon isn't being used to it's full capacity.

I don't NEED that weapon to perform well on ninja. For clear reasons I stated in a prior post, you would most likely be missing out on dps by switching to SB spam. You would literally miss ALL of the SC dmg...all of it. If this person (and not trying to knock on him) somehow made a shift that would adjust a run by 5+min there is something else wrong with that pt/setup/gear/etc. It has nothing to do with the type of weapon you are using. Which again...makes zero sense when you leave all the added sc dmg out (repeating myself, I know).

No def not on his 15 minute amb runs. Just didn’t see the point in complaining that you can use a weapon when the solution is as simple as /equip main Heishi (or whatever).

I’m not an Uber ninja, but I roll with one, and he rarely uses Naegling, so I’m a bit skeptical that the issue is really that naegling is so much more powerful than Ninja DREMA.
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By Nariont 2021-03-28 19:55:35  
It's less naeg in particular and more that savage blade is just that strong a WS vs its other 1 hander, and even some 2 hander counterparts, in a meta thats shifted far more favorably to WS dmg vs white dmg that it means using a "weaker"(C rank vs A+ and nin has crap access to swords from memory) weapon type just because it has the better WS.

Add in that katana phys WS are fairly mediocre in that they hit their dmg ceiling earlier than others (outside of hybrids and ten, which is just a weaker savage blade anyway) and its not surprising naegs a better weapon to use when you have the buffs for it.
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