The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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2010-06-21
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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2021-03-28 19:57:33  
I use naegling when I have to be the fragmentation step of the SC and for some reason I'm on NIN instead of many other jobs for it. This month's ambuscade is better done with darkness skillchains, though.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2021-03-28 21:50:37  
I suppose Naegling/SB being too strong/too meta is an issue in general in FFXI.

But TBH, I use it less on NIN than on a lot of other jobs BECAUSE it is most effective in a WS spam situation where there are little to no SCs. In that situation, I likely want to be on a job that isn't NIN anyway. So many better options for spamming physical WS, including for Savage Blade itself (e.g., WAR DRK RNG DRG COR all preferable to NIN from a DPS perspective if looking at Savage only)

NIN comes out in situations where I can at least somewhat play to its strengths - usually solo/lowman stuff where I can take advantage of NIN's SC/MB ability, and maybe without a "true" tank. And if I'm doing that, I'm probably not interested in Savage Blade (or Blade: Ten, for that matter, which is one reason I kinda tend to find Heishi/Ten a bit overrated) - I'm using WS that make better SCs. Raw WS damage numbers don't tell the whole story.

I guess occasionally there might be situations that warrant bringing NIN for its defensive utility, but you still want to spam physical WS with no regard for SC. In that case, cool, Naegling is an option (but like... not all that different than spamming Ten, or a hybrid depending on target). Most of the time though, it's just not the right option for situations where I'm actually using NIN. So whatever, I don't particularly care that it exists... but it's also not replacing my other NIN weapons that are a better tool for the job 95%+ of the time I'm on NIN.
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By Thunderjet 2021-03-29 02:20:46  
TANKIN ambuscade 1 on nin is so much fking fun, when u avoid mechanics with migiwari, nin is amazing at mid tier
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By GlassyCraver 2021-03-29 02:33:38  
Odin.Phillytool said: »
On top of distract, rdm can do 35-40 k sb. Your an idiot to not take a rdm.
If you need distract for the accuracy difference your DD are trash. A WHM/RDM doing distract 1 prevents sigh, or you can just dispel it with COR. Other DD can do 40k+ ws and ws more frequently than RDM.

Only idiots take a RDM.
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By GlassyCraver 2021-03-29 02:34:32  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
It's boring. Cor uses naegling, rng uses naegling, war uses naegling, drg uses naegling, thf uses naeging, bst uses naegling, nin uses naegling

That should make it pretty obvious that something is imbalanced.

It's the same as everyone bandwagoning cor because of how imbalanced it is
You forgot brd
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 Asura.Sesshmaru
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By Asura.Sesshmaru 2021-03-29 03:10:53  
I hope they fix katanas WS same they fixed scythe WS. Also Well Geared RDM Could do great Damage.
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By SimonSes 2021-03-29 03:26:44  
Asura.Sesshmaru said: »
I hope they fix katanas WS same they fixed scythe WS.

Was that a sarcasm?

90% of Scythe WSs are mediocre at best and few are decent only because of massive PDL, high base damage and REMA bonuses. Even with +100% damage on Drepanum, Spiral Hell is only in a good tier. Apocalypse/Entropy are still mainly for utility. Insurgency is only good with Liberator. Quietus is weak and only okish to close skillchains. Cross Reaper and Shadow of Death are decent, but require to hold TP to like 2000-2500.
 Asura.Sesshmaru
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By Asura.Sesshmaru 2021-03-29 03:35:19  
Yes after December 2019 Version Update, Players started playing DRK with Liberatore, Before they only used apocalypses for tanking/survivability. Katana need the same attention from SE.
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By SimonSes 2021-03-29 04:38:36  
Asura.Sesshmaru said: »
Yes after December 2019 Version Update, Players started playing DRK with Liberatore, Before they only used apocalypses for tanking/survivability. Katana need the same attention from SE.

Still not sure if that sarcasm or not. Nin needs WS update like H2H, not Scythe >.>
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 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2021-03-29 08:17:04  
Asura.Sesshmaru said: »
share with us a Screenshot of this month Ambu with 40k Blade ten and if u do please share ur ws set, Thank you.

Really wish I had taken pics of last weeks runs, So I'll eat crow because I couldn't push it at/past 40k this week. Songs were HM/VM/Mad/Min (sometimes Min x2), so was down 1~2 Mins depending on whos bard mule was in. Did ageha when I remembered and was using salt ramen. It's not too hard, just need proper buffs. My average was 36~37k using Heishi, and 33~34K when using Nagi. When using Nagi I was holding tp a bit, mainly because I wasn't using Hitaki as OH.



My base Ten set:
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-03-29 10:28:14  
That's somewhere near the highest I have hit on Wave 3 Dynamis boss before. If NIN could see more consistent Ten (Katana WS in general) damage like Savage Blade, similar to the above screenshot, I would be satisfied.
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By mhomho 2021-03-29 10:50:22  
Why not Mpaca's Cap for TP Bonus +200?
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By SimonSes 2021-03-29 10:50:39  
mhomho said: »
Why not Mpaca's Cap for TP Bonus +200?

Because it doesnt work atm
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By mhomho 2021-03-29 10:51:03  
:[
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By Creecreelo 2021-03-29 12:41:21  
GlassyCraver said: »
Odin.Phillytool said: »
On top of distract, rdm can do 35-40 k sb. Your an idiot to not take a rdm.
If you need distract for the accuracy difference your DD are trash. A WHM/RDM doing distract 1 prevents sigh, or you can just dispel it with COR. Other DD can do 40k+ ws and ws more frequently than RDM.

Only idiots take a RDM.

Not to derail too much but Distract 1 doesn't prevent Sigh in this month's ambu.



Meanwhile Distract 3 definitely does block it, maybe Distract 2 as well but unsure on that. Not having to worry about sigh at all is quite nice. Rdm brings some other pretty nice benefits too, so it's actually a great job to bring this month to Ambu.
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 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2021-03-29 15:25:18  
Also like what's the reasoning to not bring RDM? Are people doing ambu this month without a healer?

Of course you can do ambu with tons of set ups but I would say RDM is the best healer to bring this month if you are really trying to go with the best set up.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-03-29 16:44:15  
Ninja thread (I agree with everything yall are saying tho!)
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 Odin.Phillytool
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By Odin.Phillytool 2021-03-29 20:51:56  
@creecreelo This isnt about not having enough acc, its about stacking more attack with another minuet, and not having to deal with dispelling sigh and although dia3 isnt much more def down, its still better than dia 2. Ob and 40 k + sb will smash your ninja ws. This game for many is about doing things faster, more efficient and less stupid.
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2021-03-30 00:01:22  
Odin.Phillytool said: »
the name says it all
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By mhomho 2021-03-30 00:41:34  


And the Lord say'eth: Metsu is bestu!
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 Asura.Kitfoxtrot
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By Asura.Kitfoxtrot 2021-04-11 12:50:54  
Has anyone confirmed if kunimitsu wsd works in offhand? I think usually that kind of stuff doesn't, unless it's an "augment" (like ternion) right?

Guessing easiest test would be something like spirits within comparison kuni vs ternion offhand?
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By SimonSes 2021-04-11 13:04:49  
Asura.Kitfoxtrot said: »
Has anyone confirmed if kunimitsu wsd works in offhand? I think usually that kind of stuff doesn't, unless it's an "augment" (like ternion) right?

Guessing easiest test would be something like spirits within comparison kuni vs ternion offhand?

What regular WSD actually doesnt work offhand? Afaik Reikiko and Barbarity work in offhand, so no idea why would you doubt it.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-04-11 13:46:19  
Aside from stuff that has "Main Hand" specified pretty much everything works offhand.

The only exceptions are the special stats from RMEA, and then again some of those work OH.

Unless Kunimitsu is the exception here, I think there should be no reason to believe its WSD bonus wouldn't work OH.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-04-11 13:50:53  
Probably confusing the unique augments of REMAs, which is a completely separate stat (and they say main hand only). Not just WSD, but there are no normal stats on regular weapons that do not work in the offhand that I can recall. So you never have to ask that question unless it's an ultimate weapon type. (For example, asking about Yagyu Darkness stats in the offhand are reasonable)

Slightly on topic: SE opened up a can of confusion when some things work in offhand and other things don't. I don't really understand why Ninja REMA specifically have any restrictions on WHAT operates on the offhand and what doesn't. Seems like the one job where every stat should operate in both hands. Dual wield is kinda their thing. But too much broken is already out for them to revert to that model now.

Can't really blame people for asking what works in OH anymore.
 Asura.Kitfoxtrot
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By Asura.Kitfoxtrot 2021-04-11 13:58:37  
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Kitfoxtrot said: »
Has anyone confirmed if kunimitsu wsd works in offhand? I think usually that kind of stuff doesn't, unless it's an "augment" (like ternion) right?

Guessing easiest test would be something like spirits within comparison kuni vs ternion offhand?

What regular WSD actually doesnt work offhand? Afaik Reikiko and Barbarity work in offhand, so no idea why would you doubt it.

Ah ok once upon a time thought I heard wsd had to be w/aug slot on weapon to work offhand.

didn't realize was dropping small amount of hp trying to test real quick. getting same #'s after fixing
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By Izanami 2021-04-11 14:56:56  
Asura.Kitfoxtrot said: »
Has anyone confirmed if kunimitsu wsd works in offhand? I think usually that kind of stuff doesn't, unless it's an "augment" (like ternion) right?

Guessing easiest test would be something like spirits within comparison kuni vs ternion offhand?

I did a super basic test of this during the most recent free login using Heishi+Kunimitsu and Kunimitsu+Heishi. I used Blade: Ei at 3000 TP using locked sTP+Accuracy gear on Apex Crabs. Since Blade: Ei is magical damage and since I was WSing at 3000TP, the damage should be consistent no matter which hand Kunimitsu was in if the WSD worked in both hands.

Both setups (Heishi+Kunimitsu & Kunimitsu+Heishi) were doing 3434 damage with occasional weird outliers in each case at 3778 damage. (Edit: The outlier was likely a weather or day bonus that I didn't pay attention to at the time. Thanks Austar.)

To test if the Magic Burst Bonus applied off-hand, I used the Lv13 Katana instead of Heishi. With the same locked sTP+Accuracy gear, I made Darkness skillchains with Hi+Hi and bursted Suiton on Apex Crabs. Magic bursts were doing 2097 damage in both cases.

The conclusion is that the WSD and magic burst bonus stats definitely apply main-hand and off-hand, or don't apply in either hand.

I'm not sure if the WSD applies to all WS hits, though.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2021-04-11 14:59:16  
the 3778 was probably a day proc
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By mhomho 2021-04-14 07:34:13  
So it's decided then? Yagyu Darkblade is the best offhand. Sure, you might get more damage from others, I don't know, but, free shadows for everyone is insane.
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By SimonSes 2021-04-14 07:58:42  
mhomho said: »
So it's decided then? Yagyu Darkblade is the best offhand. Sure, you might get more damage from others, I don't know, but, free shadows for everyone is insane.

Afaik we still dont know if it has Utsusemi enmity multiplied by number of people giving shadows. Its the most important thing about this katana, because that alone push NIN to being competitive tank and best enmity tank in the game. AoE shadows alone are great, but not game breaking. That enmity multiplier would be tho.

Also, as long as this katana is behind bonanza wall, it ultimately doesnt really *** matter.
 Leviathan.Nitenichi
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2021-04-14 15:19:57  
SimonSes said: »
mhomho said: »
So it's decided then? Yagyu Darkblade is the best offhand. Sure, you might get more damage from others, I don't know, but, free shadows for everyone is insane.

Afaik we still dont know if it has Utsusemi enmity multiplied by number of people giving shadows. Its the most important thing about this katana, because that alone push NIN to being competitive tank and best enmity tank in the game. AoE shadows alone are great, but not game breaking. That enmity multiplier would be tho.

Also, as long as this katana is behind bonanza wall, it ultimately doesnt really *** matter.

It matters to me, I will do the testing and report back. Again I truly didn't think people would care since these forums tend to be a bit salty. At any rate, picked up a fudo and it is ready to roll. I tried to match some tanking options from Logical and Buuki, didnt see anything updated. Plus Langly and Capuchin work hard at these guides, which is the least I can do.
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