The Beast Within -- A Guide To Blue Mage

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2010-06-21
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The Beast Within -- A Guide to Blue Mage
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-24 19:42:20  
SimonSes said: »
Gratz Buuki!

I guess as Galka you need it even more :P

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By Sadistic667 2020-06-24 19:53:43  
extra dumb follow
Valefor.Yandaime said: »
Sadistic667 said: »
Dumb Lilith question - if I equip a spellset that gives me treasure hunter, can I swap to my normal DD spellset after hitting her once at the start of the fight? Will the TH effect remain?

Yes, just as with normal TH as soon as it’s applied, it’s on and you can then fight as you normally would.

As Lowen said, you’d be better off with TH items or even just subbing THF outright or a combination of the two if available (Chaac Belt is TH+1 and easy to get). You don’t have to mess with the spells if you don’t want to.

Or perhaps you were asking if the TH value from spell vanishes if you change spell sets mid fight? To that one, I have no Earthly idea. If applied from gear, everything stays put but if applied from trait and trait just... goes poof? No clue. I *THINK* it would stay put?

extra dumb follow-up question - would having the spellset equipped (or THF sub) + equipping gear not stack?

I suppose swapping spells could be a hassle, but I've been using azuresets to swap them for me. Start in TH spellset, buff up, smack her, swap back to regular DD spellset while I CDC her down anyway. If they don't stack... then ya I suppose it would be for nothing.

Wish I had delve clears haha.
 Ragnarok.Lowen
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By Ragnarok.Lowen 2020-06-24 20:05:27  
The spell trait does not stack with the /THF subjob trait. +TH gear will stack with either, but you'll need more +TH gear using the spell trait than you would using /THF.

Messing with your spell sets just seems like unnecessary work to avoid subbing THF, which will get you more TH anyway.
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By Sadistic667 2020-06-24 20:08:21  
derp. Didn't realize /thf was TH2 (thought it was just TH1). Carry on!
 Carbuncle.Arakon
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By Carbuncle.Arakon 2020-06-26 11:11:14  
Sadistic667 said: »
derp. Didn't realize /thf was TH2 (thought it was just TH1). Carry on!

I find it much easier to just make TH+2 Herc Helm and Pants (Dark Matter augments campaign) than using /THF or spellset.

I just switch in the two pieces to apply TH4 on pulling with Glutinous Dart or Subduction (AoE cleaving).

The advantage is that you won't accidentally apply a lower level TH (TH2 instead of TH4) if your first strike is without the TH+ gear. So it will either be TH0 or TH4.

This also makes it easy to apply TH4 on other jobs and boost your THF TH set to the roof (TH14+).

For Lilith, I soloed all the drops on VE with THF/WAR instead since the drop rate is abysmal even on VD.
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 Odin.Taytar
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By Odin.Taytar 2020-06-29 19:09:32  
Can someone explain as you would to a child how much dw I need if I am a master(dw5 according to zahak reborn dps set in this guide) at

no haste
15% haste
30%
35%
45%

also if someone has already done the work and its just buried in this thread sorry... I did look.
 Leviathan.Isiolia
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By Leviathan.Isiolia 2020-06-29 19:28:29  
Odin.Taytar said: »
also if someone has already done the work and its just buried in this thread sorry... I did look.

There's a table at the bottom of this page https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Dual_Wield
 Odin.Taytar
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By Odin.Taytar 2020-06-29 19:30:30  
Leviathan.Isiolia said: »
Odin.Taytar said: »
also if someone has already done the work and its just buried in this thread sorry... I did look.

There's a table at the bottom of this page https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Dual_Wield

.... sigh.... thank you!
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2020-06-29 19:49:12  
Odin.Taytar said: »
Leviathan.Isiolia said: »
Odin.Taytar said: »
also if someone has already done the work and its just buried in this thread sorry... I did look.

There's a table at the bottom of this page https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Dual_Wield

.... sigh.... thank you!
you can also run my code online to print out every combination you need of DW. all you need is to add or change items available to you, so example if you have herculean with DW head add {'Herc Helm': 5} to the head bracket. at the bottom put the DW you need, so 11 at max haste, and it will find every combination for 10, 11, or 12 DW. you can run it online here: https://www.tutorialspoint.com/execute_python3_online.php
and it will print the results in lexicographical order. so it's very nicely formatted if you are looking to use a specific piece such as adhemar jacket
Code
import itertools

# Create Dictionary of Equipment
items = {'head': [{'Head_None': 0}],
         'body': [{'Adhemar Jacket +1': 6}, {'Body_None': 0}],
         'hands': [{'Hands_None': 0}],
         'legs': [{'Carmine Cuisses +1': 6}, {'Legs_None': 0}],
         'feet': [{'Taeon Boots': 9}, {'Rawhide Boots': 3}, {'Feet_None': 0}],
         'waist': [{'Shetal Stone': 6}, {'Reiki Yotai': 7}, {'Gerdr Belt +1': 4}, {'Waist_None': 0}],
         'ear': [{'Suppanomimi': 5}, {'Dudgeon+Heartseeker': 7}, {'Eabani Earring': 4}, {'Eabani+Suppanomimi': 9}, {'Ear_None': 0}],
         'back': [{'JSE Cape': 10}, {'Back_None': 0}]}


def product_dict(**kwargs):
    keys = kwargs.keys()
    vals = kwargs.values()
    for instance in itertools.product(*vals):
        yield dict(zip(keys, instance))


def find_optimal_armor(target_armor):
    for combination in product_dict(**items):
        total_armor = 0
        for body_part in combination.values():
            total_armor += sum(body_part.values())
        if total_armor == target_armor or total_armor == target_armor - 1 or total_armor == target_armor + 1:
            print(combination, '\n')


# Change Number Only
find_optimal_armor(31)
 Lakshmi.Arcaniz
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By Lakshmi.Arcaniz 2020-07-01 01:36:57  
Asura.Zidaner said: »
so I picked up an orph sash finally. Anyone can post the rule I need to equip it when distance is appropriate for magic spells.

thanks in advance.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/49789/the-black-sacrament-a-guide-to-black-mage/14#3417755
 Bahamut.Sobius
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By Bahamut.Sobius 2020-07-02 10:52:48  
Viciouss said: »
Bahamut.Sobius said: »
Hate to ask, mid thread - how updated is the guide at this point? I've come back after a 9 month break...

Thanks!

Nothing has changed in 9 months for blu. Spam Lilith for Malignance gear.


Appreciate the heads up. Not to be lazy (I'm staring at the Malignance stuff now), but where specifically should Malignance be used over spots in the guide? Just got a pair of Herculean Boots I'm thinking of augmenting but also looking at the M. Boots too....
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By SimonSes 2020-07-02 11:02:23  
Bahamut.Sobius said: »
Viciouss said: »
Bahamut.Sobius said: »
Hate to ask, mid thread - how updated is the guide at this point? I've come back after a 9 month break...

Thanks!

Nothing has changed in 9 months for blu. Spam Lilith for Malignance gear.


Appreciate the heads up. Not to be lazy (I'm staring at the Malignance stuff now), but where specifically should Malignance be used over spots in the guide? Just got a pair of Herculean Boots I'm thinking of augmenting but also looking at the M. Boots too....

Malignance is a supreme hybrid set. It can be also used as regular TP set, but its not BIS for DPS, unless you also need accuracy (for example for builds with Thibron offhand), then head, legs and feets are probably bis DPS options outside of some hardcore DM augments. For body and hands, Adhemar HQ path A still provide as much or more accuracy than Malignance, while also providing Triple Attack, store TP on hands and Dual wield on body. That being said I value defensive stats of Malignance so high, that I wouldn't use anything else, unless I would be forced to improve damage by some DPS check. I dont think we have and DPS checks like that in FFXI tho.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-05 10:45:09  
Two questions regarding Thibron (assuming TP+1000 version)

1) Do I necessary have to get it? Meaning, wouldn't Machaera+2 be just as good? If the only benefit of having a Thibron is having 4 DMG on a non-ilvl offhand sword, then I'm not going to put in the effort to get it fully maxed.
2) Does the TP+1000 affect Chain Affinity/Efflux? Meaning if I were to self-darkness using Expiacion > Sinker Drill, will Sinker Drill benefit from the TP+1000?
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-05 10:51:56  
SimonSes said: »
unless you also need accuracy (for example for builds with Thibron offhand), then head, legs and feets are probably bis DPS options outside of some hardcore DM augments.
Question: Wouldn't Luhlaza Bazubans +3 be better on hands, and Carmine Cuisses +1, path D be better on legs?

I understand feet, I rather would use Luhlaza Charuqs +3 for feet though, but that extra 14 accuracy doesn't offset the loss of 86 attack, especially if you are going to eat sushi and/or have accuracy buffs anyway. But that's my opinion.
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By Viciouss 2020-07-05 10:58:01  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Two questions regarding Thibron (assuming TP+1000 version)

1) Do I necessary have to get it? Meaning, wouldn't Machaera+2 be just as good? If the only benefit of having a Thibron is having 4 DMG on a non-ilvl offhand sword, then I'm not going to put in the effort to get it fully maxed.
2) Does the TP+1000 affect Chain Affinity/Efflux? Meaning if I were to self-darkness using Expiacion > Sinker Drill, will Sinker Drill benefit from the TP+1000?

You can stop at the Mach+2 if you want, its the same effect. I haven't bothered with Chain Affinity in uh, a very long time, but I don't think it helps, not sure tho.
 Leviathan.Isiolia
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By Leviathan.Isiolia 2020-07-05 11:52:39  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Question: Wouldn't Luhlaza Bazubans +3 be better on hands, and Carmine Cuisses +1, path D be better on legs?

I understand feet, I rather would use Luhlaza Charuqs +3 for feet though, but that extra 14 accuracy doesn't offset the loss of 86 attack, especially if you are going to eat sushi and/or have accuracy buffs anyway. But that's my opinion.

Seems unlikely. Thibron type setup is really focused on cranking out (effectively) high TP WS. Multiattack and Store TP are more what will get you more TP faster for WS frequency and TP overflow. Packing in some extra ATT, like you seem to be trying to do, doesn't contribute to that.

Carmine is a potential option for Dual Wield, of course, and others may have situational use - Subtle Blow on the hands, or maybe on fights where you can't WS much and want to push white damage. At that point though, you're probably using a different offhand/etc.
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By Shichishito 2020-07-05 11:58:49  
anyone know the proc rate of heimdall's doom and zantetsuken additonal effect: death?

i want to see a party of BLU dual wield those vs apex mobs.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-07-05 12:09:06  
As far as I'm aware, neither Odium nor Zantetsuken death effect can proc on Apex Monsters. But they can proc on Odyssey fodder at a very low rate. Probably 1%, I have killed several across a run just from auto attacking on THF with Odium offhand.

TP Bonus gear does not work on Blue Magic. There is separate Chain Affinity + gear and Efflux + legs that modify blue damage formula.

You can keep it Machaera +2. Mine was +3 for the longest while but when I finished Tizona, I just finished it since it had the vermin trial and I did them both at once. Extra damage is extra damage no matter how small :3 (in fact, you can just flah up the quest and you will invariably complete the trial by accident just by using it over time)
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By Shichishito 2020-07-05 12:38:17  
are you sure? i know i've fired SMN Odin 1 hour into a group of apex crabs and had a couple of them drop from death proc. but maybe SMN 1 hour and additional effect death are different.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-07-05 12:47:23  


This is easily tested with a warrior dual wield these two weapons with defender and auto attack with trust tank.


Edit: I just realized cruel joke is Doom effect and not death, my mistake. They are separate enfeebles, so none of what I said about that spell matter with the death proc discussion. Sorry
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By Shichishito 2020-07-05 12:52:18  
cruel joke is doom and i think its timer takes a full minute. mobs can't move more than 10 yalms away from you either or it wears off. it is also locked behind unbridled learning/wisdom. considering you can AoE burn apex on BLU i don't think it would be OP.

wonder if cruel joke works vs odyssey fodder though.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-07-05 12:53:01  
Yeah thanks for the correction, I don't know why I thought Doom was the same as death.

Hmm I can test the Odyssey thing today on my run, I actually never thought about it. I do know death proc works in the for sure
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By Shichishito 2020-07-05 12:55:25  
well it both ends with death so the association isn't far-fetched.
 Carbuncle.Arakon
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By Carbuncle.Arakon 2020-07-05 22:14:40  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Two questions regarding Thibron (assuming TP+1000 version)

1) Do I necessary have to get it? Meaning, wouldn't Machaera+2 be just as good? If the only benefit of having a Thibron is having 4 DMG on a non-ilvl offhand sword, then I'm not going to put in the effort to get it fully maxed.
2) Does the TP+1000 affect Chain Affinity/Efflux? Meaning if I were to self-darkness using Expiacion > Sinker Drill, will Sinker Drill benefit from the TP+1000?

The idea with Thibron (TP Bonus) is to use the main hand weapon to reach 1000% TP quickly for the WS rather than building 2000 TP to WS with another offhand weapon (e.g. Blurred Sword +1). In this case, the acc of the Thibron doesn't really matter, as we are not expecting it to land much hits.

This requires a high multihit/store tp set. The reason it works well with Tizona is because Tizona with aftermath has a high multihit rate, combined with the high store TP on the Malignance set is much better than any increase of +double/+triple attack from other armor.

However, you will still want to make sure you have sufficient dual wield to reduce the swing delay of the swords. Basically, this will be 11 with Suppanomimi + Shetal Stone, or the more higher end version of Reiki Yotai + Eabani Earring.
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By SimonSes 2020-07-06 02:19:16  
Carbuncle.Arakon said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Two questions regarding Thibron (assuming TP+1000 version)

1) Do I necessary have to get it? Meaning, wouldn't Machaera+2 be just as good? If the only benefit of having a Thibron is having 4 DMG on a non-ilvl offhand sword, then I'm not going to put in the effort to get it fully maxed.
2) Does the TP+1000 affect Chain Affinity/Efflux? Meaning if I were to self-darkness using Expiacion > Sinker Drill, will Sinker Drill benefit from the TP+1000?

The idea with Thibron (TP Bonus) is to use the main hand weapon to reach 1000% TP quickly for the WS rather than building 2000 TP to WS with another offhand weapon (e.g. Blurred Sword +1). In this case, the acc of the Thibron doesn't really matter, as we are not expecting it to land much hits.

This requires a high multihit/store tp set. The reason it works well with Tizona is because Tizona with aftermath has a high multihit rate, combined with the high store TP on the Malignance set is much better than any increase of +double/+triple attack from other armor.

However, you will still want to make sure you have sufficient dual wield to reduce the swing delay of the swords. Basically, this will be 11 with Suppanomimi + Shetal Stone, or the more higher end version of Reiki Yotai + Eabani Earring.

That is really funny response lol
You havent answered any of his question XD

1. Yes, you dont need Thibron, Machaera +2 does the same and only difference is that few damage on sub hand
2. Nope, chain affinity doesnt get bonus from Thibron

Now Arakon you are mistaken. We expect Thibron to hit. No idea where you get info that we dont. You equip Malignance for store tp AND accuracy to land hits with Thibron. Also its not true that any multihit gains wont be better. It can be better, but it needs to be enough multihit vs storetp and it needs to have high accuracy too. For example adhemar hands path A would be better. The thing with Malignance is that many people prefer to wear it anyway, because even if adhemar is slightly bettet for tp its way worse for defensive.
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By arakon 2020-07-06 03:35:59  
SimonSes said: »
Now Arakon you are mistaken. We expect Thibron to hit. No idea where you get info that we dont. You equip Malignance for store tp AND accuracy to land hits with Thibron. Also its not true that any multihit gains wont be better. It can be better, but it needs to be enough multihit vs storetp and it needs to have high accuracy too. For example adhemar hands path A would be better. The thing with Malignance is that many people prefer to wear it anyway, because even if adhemar is slightly bettet for tp its way worse for defensive.

Just curious on this part, since I didn't do Diveregence on BLU, how much percentage of hits do you land on Wave 3 Boss with Thibron?

The hardest boss I have gone against is Mireu and I can see significant offhand misses even with crazy buffs from overlapping trusts.
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By SimonSes 2020-07-06 04:36:31  
arakon said: »
SimonSes said: »
Now Arakon you are mistaken. We expect Thibron to hit. No idea where you get info that we dont. You equip Malignance for store tp AND accuracy to land hits with Thibron. Also its not true that any multihit gains wont be better. It can be better, but it needs to be enough multihit vs storetp and it needs to have high accuracy too. For example adhemar hands path A would be better. The thing with Malignance is that many people prefer to wear it anyway, because even if adhemar is slightly bettet for tp its way worse for defensive.

Just curious on this part, since I didn't do Diveregence on BLU, how much percentage of hits do you land on Wave 3 Boss with Thibron?

The hardest boss I have gone against is Mireu and I can see significant offhand misses even with crazy buffs from overlapping trusts.

On boss you will be most likely capped at 95% accuracy, because boss is usually done with SPed buffs/debuffs. The more problematic could be some Fomor NMs in wave 3 and some more evasive regular fomors, especially if you dont have RDM to Distract them.

Problem with Mireu is that Trusts overwrite buffs from real players, so you are getting shitty madrigals etc. Mireu is also specifically made very evasive because it's suppose to fight with 50+ players at once, so it's assumed it would be debuffed by everything possible, but often it's not.
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By Pantafernando 2020-07-06 07:19:05  
Is it?

Mireu is stupidly magic evasive. Even geo debuffs are resisted.

I think the most debuffed he will get is some dia or bio.

The key to fight it is just seltheus everywhere. Once you have a full wipe, its very unlikely you to recover the fight because you wont coordinate some massive amount of olayer to engage at same time. So one will engage, all trusts are wiped then the players next. You HP and come back, as soon as you call trusts, they are wiped.

Im already timed out at 1%. And that was a fight well controlled, when we downed him to 10~15% with 15 mins left. But once there is a full wipe, very hard to recover.
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By SimonSes 2020-07-06 08:16:49  
Pantafernando said: »
Is it?

Mireu is stupidly magic evasive. Even geo debuffs are resisted.

I think the most debuffed he will get is some dia or bio.

The key to fight it is just seltheus everywhere. Once you have a full wipe, its very unlikely you to recover the fight because you wont coordinate some massive amount of olayer to engage at same time. So one will engage, all trusts are wiped then the players next. You HP and come back, as soon as you call trusts, they are wiped.

Im already timed out at 1%. And that was a fight well controlled, when we downed him to 10~15% with 15 mins left. But once there is a full wipe, very hard to recover.

I dont think Geo debuffs being resisted is magic evasion thing. Its more like geo buffs on some enemies have fixed % nerf. The point is you should bring EVERYTHING possible at mireu, not 10 GEO and 10 RDMs.

Bring DNCs for steps (all 4), bring BST for def down, obviously Dia III + light shot. DRGs for Dragon Braker and Ancient Circle etc.

Also its fight in Escha, so you can use all kind of temps and vorseals. It's another factor that was probably a reason for it having higher stats.
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