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DNC Response from the Devs
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1161
By Fenrir.Mtmoogle 2011-08-15 13:37:48
nin can also nuke and enfeeble; ;
rip dnc
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-08-15 13:42:28
If I still cared about soloing I'd probably prefer DNC for fights with enough high-damage attacks that I couldn't just Migawari them all away, especially magic damage since DNC has better MDT options (Avalon Breastplate sup). NIN's got enfeebles and ***but DNC has better raw killspeed on low-tier stuff and better spike cures for some higher-tier NMs. Soloing is such a waste of time now though, unless you're just doing it for fun =\
Bismarck.Enzoe
By Bismarck.Enzoe 2011-08-15 13:44:34
I think dancer is pretty much set for now.
Evisceration>reverse flourish>pyrrhic kleos=darkness
For solo dancer rules.
One change could be dancer's getting some kind of tp benefit while in parties. I think it would be cool for the developers to offer a reason for people to want dancers in the party situation at events.
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10483
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-15 13:44:59
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: If I still cared about soloing I'd probably prefer DNC for fights with enough high-damage attacks that I couldn't just Migawari them all away, especially magic damage since DNC has better MDT options (Avalon Breastplate sup). NIN's got enfeebles and ***but DNC has better raw killspeed on low-tier stuff and better spike cures for some higher-tier NMs. Soloing is such a waste of time now though, unless you're just doing it for fun =\ I payed a guy to level sync my mnk to 75 so I could solo Serket like the good ol' days :D
Sylph.Kiaru
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-15 13:56:06
Nin's enfeebles are what make it better than dnc at soloing...but yeah soloing is pointless.
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-08-15 14:35:10
Drjones said: Shut up woman.
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: If I still cared about soloing I'd probably prefer DNC for fights with enough high-damage attacks that I couldn't just Migawari them all away, especially magic damage since DNC has better MDT options (Avalon Breastplate sup). NIN's got enfeebles and ***but DNC has better raw killspeed on low-tier stuff and better spike cures for some higher-tier NMs. Soloing is such a waste of time now though, unless you're just doing it for fun =\
did you miss this entire post?
Sylph.Kiaru said:
I type long posts explaining things perfectly, people nitpick and only read like 1 sentence or troll me, never replying with a real argument or backing up their claims with proof(ninian is an exception). I then give up and figure out they'll never change their minds.
reap what you sow for the love of god.
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-15 14:37:42
I'll screw around and do some more translation.
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-08-15 14:38:53
thanks asymp, i still stand by my new stance suggestion i made a while back.
Cerberus.Vaness
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 14:46:14
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: I'll screw around and do some more translation. tyvm, it's very kind of you to do this for us Japanese tard @_@
Cerberus.Vaness
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 14:47:50
Sylph.Kiaru said: Nin's enfeebles are what make it better than dnc at soloing...but yeah soloing is pointless. from a small experience, I got HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE luck sticking NIN enfeeb as dnc :3
Maybe I'm just broken.Of course it might not work as good as it does on nin but it's not too bad.
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-15 14:57:12
*They are considering increasing the duration of steps?
*They'll look into finishing moves after step level 5, but they mostly give a lecture about how we should be using multiple steps and maxing them over time instead of maxing one at a time >_>
*They'd consider maybe making chocobo jig extendable to the party if and only if it were to cost TP, I really hope they don't waste time testing this.
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-08-15 15:02:21
Cerberus.Vaness said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Nin's enfeebles are what make it better than dnc at soloing...but yeah soloing is pointless. from a small experience, I got HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE luck sticking NIN enfeeb as dnc :3
Maybe I'm just broken.Of course it might not work as good as it does on nin but it's not too bad. i made a topic like 4 or 5 months ago about bein able to stick enfeebles on dnc, glad im not the only one that does this.
Ragnarok.Judaine
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 182
By Ragnarok.Judaine 2011-08-15 15:02:45
Bismarck.Enzoe said: I think dancer is pretty much set for now.
Rudra's Storm>reverse flourish>Evisceration=darkness
For solo dancer rules.
One change could be dancer's getting some kind of tp benefit while in parties. I think it would be cool for the developers to offer a reason for people to want dancers in the party situation at events.
ftfy
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-15 15:03:49
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: Cerberus.Vaness said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Nin's enfeebles are what make it better than dnc at soloing...but yeah soloing is pointless. from a small experience, I got HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE luck sticking NIN enfeeb as dnc :3
Maybe I'm just broken.Of course it might not work as good as it does on nin but it's not too bad. i made a topic like 4 or 5 months ago about bein able to stick enfeebles on dnc, glad im not the only one that does this.
i remember that thread
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-08-15 15:05:00
Ragnarok.Judaine said: Bismarck.Enzoe said: I think dancer is pretty much set for now.
Rudra's Storm>reverse flourish>Evisceration=darkness
For solo dancer rules.
One change could be dancer's getting some kind of tp benefit while in parties. I think it would be cool for the developers to offer a reason for people to want dancers in the party situation at events.
ftfy more like rudra-rudra
By Pooman 2011-08-15 15:05:01
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: *They are considering increasing the duration of steps?
*They'll look into finishing moves after step level 5, but they mostly give a lecture about how we should be using multiple steps and maxing them over time instead of maxing one at a time >_>
*They'd consider maybe making chocobo jig extendable to the party if and only if it were to cost TP, I really hope they don't waste time testing this.
I like how they say that chocojig is only for yourself because there's no cost to use it, but then totally ignore the fact that BRDs and CORs can do the same thing. Oh wait they paid for their spell... >.>
Sylph.Kiaru
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-15 15:07:02
You could land debuffs with gimp skill on low level/weak mobs easily since like WOTG, dependings on mobs stats and stuff also I guess.
By Pooman 2011-08-15 15:08:45
And who asks some of these lame questions anyway? Sphere-like dances? Spectral Jig overwritting Spectral Jig!? Is it really that hard to remove sneak and do it again!?!?
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-08-15 15:10:08
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said:
i remember that thread
obviously kiaru doesn't
Sylph.Kiaru said: You could land debuffs with gimp skill on low level/weak mobs easily since like WOTG, dependings on mobs stats and stuff also I guess.
------->
By Pooman 2011-08-15 15:11:35
Sylph.Kiaru said: You could land debuffs with gimp skill on low level/weak mobs easily since like WOTG, dependings on mobs stats and stuff also I guess.
Pretty sure they're talking about NMs, especially inside Abyssea.
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-15 15:12:08
Pooman said: And who asks some of these lame questions anyway? Sphere-like dances? Spectral Jig overwritting Spectral Jig!? Is it really that hard to remove sneak and do it again!?!?
These suggestions are almost all in the JP manifesto thread. Interesting that they didn't address raise/reraise dances at all - they're just as whined about in the JP forums as they are in the EN forum.
Ragnarok.Judaine
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 182
By Ragnarok.Judaine 2011-08-15 15:13:36
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: Ragnarok.Judaine said: Bismarck.Enzoe said: I think dancer is pretty much set for now.
Rudra's Storm>reverse flourish>Evisceration=darkness
For solo dancer rules.
One change could be dancer's getting some kind of tp benefit while in parties. I think it would be cool for the developers to offer a reason for people to want dancers in the party situation at events.
ftfy more like rudra-rudra
Not without Climactic! :O
okay okay okay,
Climactic->NFR->Rudra's->Reverse->Rudra's
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-15 15:14:14
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: i remember that thread obviously kiaru doesn't
------->
I remember that thread because I spent *a lot* on then-expensive macc gear to test it, and then ended up selling most of it lol
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-08-15 15:15:21
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: Pooman said: And who asks some of these lame questions anyway? Sphere-like dances? Spectral Jig overwritting Spectral Jig!? Is it really that hard to remove sneak and do it again!?!?
These suggestions are almost all in the JP manifesto thread. Interesting that they didn't address raise/reraise dances at all - they're just as whined about in the JP forums as they are in the EN forum. well it would be nice but in this point in the game its kinda pointless, we originally wanted it because of how strong our healing capabilities were at 75, if we had it then there would be no real reason to have a healer in the party if a dnc was around. but now that we are hindered by our recast timers on our waltz' we'd still need a mage of some sort at any event (abyssea or not)
Sylph.Kiaru
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-15 15:15:37
Pooman said: Sylph.Kiaru said: You could land debuffs with gimp skill on low level/weak mobs easily since like WOTG, dependings on mobs stats and stuff also I guess.
Pretty sure they're talking about NMs, especially inside Abyssea. Weak/low level NM's? My friend has very high acc with blm/brd songs(level 41) on really weak nm's for proccing, but can't land them at all without EM/amaizng luck on stronger NM's.
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-08-15 15:16:13
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: i remember that thread obviously kiaru doesn't
------->
I remember that thread because I spent *a lot* on then-expensive macc gear to test it, and then ended up selling most of it lol and its still taking up a good portion of my inventory, but still works nicely, i still got that jp button handy
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-08-15 15:17:34
Sylph.Kiaru said: Pooman said: Sylph.Kiaru said: You could land debuffs with gimp skill on low level/weak mobs easily since like WOTG, dependings on mobs stats and stuff also I guess.
Pretty sure they're talking about NMs, especially inside Abyssea. Weak/low level NM's? My friend has very high acc with /brd songs(level 41) on really weak nm's for proccing, but can't land them at all without EM/amaizng luck on stronger NM's. sure if you consider itz, t3 abyssea vnm's and alot of heroes content weak.
but still
-------->
By Kalima 2011-08-15 15:21:36
There is actually a small part of me that is happy to get the answers that we did get...at least I wont be wishfully hoping every update that split waltz timers may be coming just to be disappointed again and again....and again ; ;
However, now this dev team really needs to focus on one thing, not just for DNC but for every job: stop recycling JAs and give us something unique. More than anything this is what is really pissing people off because X job is getting something that Y job had.
And to those who are mad that other jobs got what we have guess what? EVERY JA that DNC has ever had came from another job in some form. The only difference is how they implemented them all.
As far as those who say they are leaving the job because DNC has lost some of its usefulness: I cant convince you otherwise because in part i agree with you, but at the same time I play the job because I like it. And for me that should be the only reason why anyone plays any job....
Oh well /rant
Pandemonium.Ironguy
サーバ: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-08-15 15:21:59
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: and its still taking up a good portion of my inventory, but still works nicely, i still got that jp button handy
macc gear to support enfeebles that are still subject to resist all while booting -magic gear out the door due to 80 inventory cap ahoy
and enlighten me as to how dancer doesn't get their faced mauled on hahava/celaeno/voidwrought/etc, because even with perfect -physical/-magic sets on samurai, those things as well as even the t3 can be pretty damn scary currently at level ninety
Cerberus.Vaness
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 15:22:05
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: Cerberus.Vaness said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Nin's enfeebles are what make it better than dnc at soloing...but yeah soloing is pointless. from a small experience, I got HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE luck sticking NIN enfeeb as dnc :3
Maybe I'm just broken.Of course it might not work as good as it does on nin but it's not too bad. i made a topic like 4 or 5 months ago about bein able to stick enfeebles on dnc, glad im not the only one that does this. I saw your topic, you are using gear tho.I am completly naked @_@
Sometimes I will use omega + Toah ring I can never spell, With normal DD atmas and yes abyssea nms.
My ninjutsu skill is at 115 or something, I am very broken xD
[JP Button] for NIN enfeeb spell sticking [x] check!
[JP Button] For drop [ ] ;_;
Here's your link
Here's the text
Greetings dancers! Here is some feedback from the development team in regards to your comments about the job adjustments concepts. Enjoy
Add new modes for dancers. Add dances that give sphere effects.
Since sphere effects are extremely strong and completely negate the opposite enfeebling effect, we won’t be implementing the sphere effect itself. However, we are planning to add something that gives your party members some kind of effect while continuing to consume your TP. As we are not at the stage where can give info on specific effects, we would love to hear your ideas.
Make it so Waltzes don’t all share the same timer.
We would need to completely remake the system as it was originally balanced to have a unified recast timer with limitations placed on the amount of TP consumed. If we removed that, the cure capabilities of the job would be greatly enhanced throwing the balance off between other healing magic. If we were to split the Waltz timers, we would have to raise the TP consumption as a trade-off.
Reduce the recast timer on Waltz. (Especially higher tier Curing Waltz and Healing Waltz)
Since Curing Waltz was designed to be different from Cure in the sense that it has advantages with short execution time and it is hard to interrupt, but on the flip side is difficult to use in quick succession, we do not have any plans to reduce the recast time further. Instead we wish for dancers to focus on specific tactics taking into account the levels of Waltz and use the most appropriate one for the situation.
Similarly for Healing Waltz, since it is possible to address a large variety of status ailments covered by na-related spells and Erase, the recast timer was set to be somewhat long.
Make it possible to use Healing Waltz on people outside of your party.
It would be necessary to look into not only Healing Waltz, but also extending Erase to people outside of your party. In the case that we decide to extend the effects of Erase to people outside of your party, we will make it possible for Healing Waltz, too.
Increase the effect of Animated Flourish.
We are looking into adjustments for this. We are considering making it so you can generate the same level of enmity as Provoke when consuming two finishing moves.
Increase the accuracy for Desperate Flourish.
We are exploring the direction of adding equipment that enhances the accuracy.
Make it so you can perform level 2-3 skill chains with Wild Flourish.
Comparing this to samurai’s Konzen-ittai, the recast timer is shorter and it has multiple uses so the effect itself was set rather low for balance purposes.
Make it so you can stack steps over level 5.
This would require us to look into the effects carefully. Since the effect of level 5 is currently very strong, we do not have any plans of increasing this at the moment.
Lengthen the effect duration for steps.
We are looking into the direction of making it so the duration gets longer at higher levels.
Make it so you can generate two finishing moves even after you have reached level 5.
It can be thought that the fundamental problem here is that in order to maintain the effect of the step you need to continuously use the same step. First we will revamp the step effect duration and determine how many times you can use a step in a single battle, and then make a decision based on that.
The idea is to be able to fight by using a variety of steps and not using the same one over and over just to maintain its effect.
Make Chocobo Jig an AoE effect.
Since there is no cost for Chocobo Jig the effect is set to be only for the dancer.
In the event that we were to extend the effect to party members, there would be some room to explore this if there were TP consumption or some other trade-off.
Make it so you can overwrite Spectral Jig.
Please understand that this is the same as magic and items and it is following the rule that in order to re-apply the effect you need to remove it first.
Irrelevant stuff:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11584-%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%96%E8%AA%BF%E6%95%B4%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BB%E3%83%97%E3%83%88%EF%BC%9A%E8%B8%8A%E3%82%8A%E5%AD%90/page6
It's up on the Japanese forums. The whole thing looks pretty grim, but I won't make specific comments until I'm done translating it for myself. My Japanese is rusty though, so I apologize ^_^ English one should be up later today (usually around 7est)
Questions Addressed:
1.) Want to add a new mode/sphere effect dance?
2.) I don't want to share waltz recast timers.
They pull out both system-related woes and balance related woes. Simply splitting recast timers would make waltzes too powerful compared to other forms of recovery magic (apparently - this is what I've been saying is on their minds all along lol). Something about splitting might require substantial increases in TP cost if they did do it?
3.) I want waltz recast reduced.
Basically they pull that waltz can't be interrupted, so they don't want to decrease recast timers. They want us to use 1-3 for regular waltzes and IV + V "situationally." The recast on healing is similarly "deliberately high." -_-
4.) I would like to use healing waltz outside of PT.
5.) I would like to increase the effectiveness of Animated Flourish.
6.) I would like to increase the hit rate of Desperate Flourish.
7.) I would like wild flourish to do higher tier skillchains.
They draw a comparison to Konzen-Ittai. They set the effect of Wild lower than Konzen-Ittai because Konzen-Ittai has a significantly longer recast, which makes sense, really.
8.) We want more than 5 stages of step.
This is really disappointing. They already consider the effect of level 5 daze to be very high, so they probably won't increase the potency like I listed in my suggestion thread :(
9.) I want to increase step duration.
10.) I want to earn 2 finishing moves when step level 5 is present.
11.) I want chocobo jig to affect the party.
12.) I want to be able to overwrite spectral jig.
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