DNC Response From The Devs |
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DNC Response from the Devs
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AF3+3 is going to have Ternary Flourish on it....but Camate cant say....
Bahamut.Raenryong said: » Cerberus.Vaness said: » I seriously don't get how seperating healing and curing watlz would be a game breaker =( I think SE hate dncs. try playing a THF! Watch all of the stuff you've ever wanted be given to DNCs while you get crap in return :( Come on give SE a break. They've been really busy doing everything in their power to make SCH as perfect as possible. Offline
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Cerberus.Vaness said: » I seriously don't get how seperating healing and curing watlz would be a game breaker =( I think SE hate dncs. because spamming curing waltz IV/V wouldnt make WHM useless... seriously...if you want to main heal...go play WHM....stop Q_Qing that your all around support job cant cure the ***out of your MPspongeDD. Offline
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Inuyasha said: » Cerberus.Vaness said: » I seriously don't get how seperating healing and curing watlz would be a game breaker =( I think SE hate dncs. because spamming curing waltz IV/V wouldnt make WHM useless... seriously...if you want to main heal...go play WHM....stop Q_Qing that your all around support job cant cure the ***out of your MPspongeDD. Pooman said: » Inuyasha said: » Cerberus.Vaness said: » I seriously don't get how seperating healing and curing watlz would be a game breaker =( I think SE hate dncs. because spamming curing waltz IV/V wouldnt make WHM useless... seriously...if you want to main heal...go play WHM....stop Q_Qing that your all around support job cant cure the ***out of your MPspongeDD. Offline
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Siren.Thoraeon said: » Pooman said: » Inuyasha said: » Cerberus.Vaness said: » I seriously don't get how seperating healing and curing watlz would be a game breaker =( I think SE hate dncs. so, by seperateing them youd be able to easily spam higher tier waltzes back to back...which would indeed break the game and cause unbalance. so, the Q_Qing over not bieng WHM will continue while im over here prioritizing my waltzes like your supposed to. Camate said: » However, what if we were to implement a weapon skill that matched this nicely as well as equipment that enhances the stats of Ternary Flourish, just like the other abilities? So they're hinting at a modifier-heavy low-fTP Dagger WS. Hate to surprise them, but Dagger WSs are already modifier-heavy because base dagger damage is so low. They would have to do something incredibly extreme to change that, though I think it would be hilarious if they did. Assuming they want the unstacked WS to be approximately equivalent to Rudra's Storm, and with 150 DEX, D52 weapon, 10 base damage from fSTR: Rudra's Storm (~6 fTP at 100TP including offhand, TP Bonus, and DA/TA) is 60% DEX :: 6 * 138 = 828 damage before pDIF Mystery WS - minimum fTP to maximize potential of TA Flourish (2.5 fTP at 100TP including offhand and DA/TA) In order for Mystery WS to equal Rudra's Storm, it would need: 828/2.5 = 331 base damage 331 - 52 - 10 = 269 269/150/.85 = ~210% DEX mod, so call it 200% CF more than doubles Rudra's damage outside Abyssea in my experience, while Ternary (at face value) increases Mystery WS's damage by 70%. So in addition to the outrageous modifier above, they would also basically need to make the enhancing gear turn Ternary into Quaternary. Other things: 1) You can self-skillchain with two Crit Rudra's. 2) You get up to 6 consecutive boosted crits with Climactic, while Ternary is a one-attack deal. 3) The recast on Ternary is almost twice as long as Climactic. Offline
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Quote: 2) You get up to 6 consecutive boosted crits with Climactic, while Ternary is a one-attack deal. where are you getting the other 4 crit hits? (are you talking on WS's or just regular TPing hits?) cause the +1/2 hat only gives 1 more autocrit hit to a WS (total of 2). I meant total, if you burn 5 FMs with the +2 hat on then you get 6 consecutive crits. If you're wearing the +2 hat when those crits go off, they get Damage +20%.
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Lakshmi.Byrth said: » I meant total, if you burn 5 FMs with the +2 hat on then you get 6 consecutive crits. If you're wearing the +2 hat when those crits go off, they get Damage +20%. saw 6 consecutive hits and instantly thought WS with added DualWield hit :X Yeah, it's just useful to note. If you assume that a Crit with Damage +20% doubles your swing damage (minus the chance you'd have crit anyway), then a 5 FM Climactic effectively adds 6 swings worth of damage. Ternary adds 2 swings worth of damage, and they're swings that you might have had anyway so it's actually less than that (with 33% DA and 3% TA, it would be about 1.6 attacks).
Inuyasha said: » i did read that....which means you would have seperate waltz tiers at the same time....not just one category.... so, by seperateing them youd be able to easily spam higher tier waltzes back to back...which would indeed break the game and cause unbalance. so, the Q_Qing over not bieng WHM will continue while im over here prioritizing my waltzes like your supposed to. First off, what makes you believe that separating healing waltz from cureing waltz means all the timers have to be split? I'm curious as to your reasoning behind this. Secondly, you're incredibly misled if you believe that DNC having their timers split odd/even, or in some other way would make DNC a WHM replacement. Just listen to me for a second. WHM shines in a scenario in which it has unlimited MP. To you folks, these situations would be Abyssea and Voidwatch. They also excel at curing in situations where people are taking massive damage at once (near one-shots) and where you cannot get close to the mob (Voidwatch/Abyssea, again). Now, take WHM to a level 90 equivalent Einherjar. Do you get the picture? WHM would be completely screwed without a ton of support, or all of the DDs would have to play defensively which is totally stupid. RDM and even SCH would be more adept to heal in a non-infinite MP scenario, so before you start panicking about DNC taking over WHMs job you should be staring at the RDMs and SCHs with a near infinite MP source. Anyway, let's continue. If DNC were to have their timers split, they'd be an excellent primary healer to aid in Einherjar and Dynamis-like situations where they're allowed to TP on the mobs fulltime, and where DDs can fulltime hasso and don't afraid(one in the same really). They don't have an MP pool, so they can do the meat-and-potatoes healing, whereas other mages can focus on other things such as buffs and touch-up heals. DNC--even at 75--was never a WHM or RDM replacement, it just allowed your party to do things they were never capable of with a MP and cast-time reliant job. I'm not entirely sure if I'm making sense, so feel free to ask for clarification. Offline
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Fenrir.Niniann said: » Inuyasha said: » i did read that....which means you would have seperate waltz tiers at the same time....not just one category.... so, by seperateing them youd be able to easily spam higher tier waltzes back to back...which would indeed break the game and cause unbalance. so, the Q_Qing over not bieng WHM will continue while im over here prioritizing my waltzes like your supposed to. the one i wanted to quote and was in response to the general "no seperate "waltz" timers" (you know...seperateing all waltzes). so...in a place with non-infinite MP...a job with possibly infinite TP cant take over a limited jobs position if they can spam high tier healing? especially on a SUPPORT job that NEEDS to melee to do its job? your not going to be short on TP unless you do a badly timed Rudra's Storm or Evisceration. you can see how IV/V spam would totally make WHM V/VI spaming not that good when the WHM is limited to finite MP and DNC is unlimited with Infinite TP (you can come back with "well how are you going to get this TP" or "cureskin bro"...but yea) anyway: on topic with the Q_Q i quoted, why would you seperate a category over a stupid reason such as bad priorities? I guess I'll be the one to point this out:
When would you need to spam Waltz IV/V on something that you can freely melee? The easier something is to TP on (and feed TP to), the less healing our party or alliance needs. It's the Catch-22 of the Dancer job. Even if Waltz recasts were 0, we still wouldn't have a place as a healer in Voidwatch. Inuyasha said: » so...in a place with non-infinite MP...a job with possibly infinite TP cant take over a limited jobs position if they can spam high tier healing? especially on a SUPPORT job that NEEDS to melee to do its job? your not going to be short on TP unless you do a badly timed Rudra's Storm or Evisceration. you can see how IV/V spam would totally make WHM V/VI spaming not that good when the WHM is limited to finite MP and DNC is unlimited with Infinite TP (you can come back with "well how are you going to get this TP" or "cureskin bro"...but yea) heal!DNC probably shouldn't be WSing to begin with, firstly. I guess maybe if they had FMs backed up they could some, but meh. Secondly, WHM wouldn't exactly be brought to something that didn't have infinite MP or require V/VI, because as Byrth mentioned--when would you need V/VI on something that's easily fed TP? You'd bring a RDM, or even a SCH as a backup heal honestly. Cureskin doesn't mean ***when stuff doesn't do damage. *IF* a WHM were there, their job would be hastes and -nas to be quite frank, which SCH would be more suited to doing (unless the WHM had a Yagrush, in which case they should be DDing and wishing they were a DNC, but I won't go there right now). Quote: anyway: on topic with the Q_Q i quoted, why would you seperate a category over a stupid reason such as bad priorities? DNC needs more than just Waltz III-spammage, or they need more potency gear(which means increasing the potency cap)/more -timer gear. As Byrth said--we don't, and never will, have a place in Voidwatch and Voidwatch-like events. Except as a proccer o~hohoho! Cerberus.Wolfshadow
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I'm confused, where's the part where you get a single sch
God what are you guys, new here? Offline
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Fenrir.Niniann said: » Inuyasha said: » so...in a place with non-infinite MP...a job with possibly infinite TP cant take over a limited jobs position if they can spam high tier healing? especially on a SUPPORT job that NEEDS to melee to do its job? your not going to be short on TP unless you do a badly timed Rudra's Storm or Evisceration. you can see how IV/V spam would totally make WHM V/VI spaming not that good when the WHM is limited to finite MP and DNC is unlimited with Infinite TP (you can come back with "well how are you going to get this TP" or "cureskin bro"...but yea) Quote: anyway: on topic with the Q_Q i quoted, why would you seperate a category over a stupid reason such as bad priorities? anyway, if you know how to manage TP you can WS and still heal...but most people dont...or just sit there hording 300% TP.... but yea...you basicly proved my point that in a situation where finite MP is bad a seperated III/IV/V timer would push out all other healing jobs (even RDM and SCH...cause...Sublimation and refresh II will totally last forever and keep your MP at 100% outside when your spamming cure IV). Even in Voidwatch it would be severely overpowered to have that much free healing cause the DNC doesnt even have to hit the mob to land steps ,and theres No Foot Rise 5/5 + reverse flourish with max merits and hands+2, so TP is literally limitless and therefore the heals will be constant. you have potency gear....the cap is just 20% lower than noral cure (which is also part of that thing called balancing). well....Haste Samba stacks with marches...and normal haste....and hasso...and then..hey theres steps...you know...the usefull stuff (meaning: the only thing keeping jobs [including DNC] out of VWNM are the stupid player base that just wants to zerg everything down with one job set and if it fails just zombie it down til it regens to 100%) anyway, you didnt answer my question....why change something thats ment to balance the job just because you have bad prioritizing skills? or that you cant remember that you pretty much will always have an item that will either cure the debuff or get eaten instead of your waltz (cause everyone knows how to time the use of abilities when paralyzed...right?). Fenrir.Niniann said: » Haste Samba either needs to break the Haste cap (potentially broken as ***) Cerberus.Wolfshadow
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Inuyasha said: » and theres No Foot Rise 5/5 Inuyasha said: » you just...flip flopped on me... How so? WHM never had a place where DNC was viable, that's not a flip flop at all. Quote: anyway, if you know how to manage TP you can WS and still heal...but most people dont...or just sit there hording 300% TP.... Ummm... not really. Let me put it to you like this. Say you have a full alliance all full-timing Hasso and other dangerous things. When they are taking hate, they're taking a bunch of damage. There's also AOEs and other things. At 75, you simply didn't have the TP to cure *** everyone and WS at the same time. It'll be slightly different at 90+ because of how much TP we're able to generate, but not enough to WS constantly, or even all that often. :/ Quote: but yea...you basicly proved my point that in a situation where finite MP is bad a seperated III/IV/V timer would push out all other healing jobs (even RDM and SCH...cause...Sublimation and refresh II will totally last forever and keep your MP at 100% outside when your spamming cure IV). Even in Voidwatch it would be severely overpowered to have that much free healing cause the DNC doesnt even have to hit the mob to land steps ,and theres No Foot Rise 5/5 + reverse flourish with max merits and hands+2, so TP is literally limitless and therefore the heals will be constant. It's not pushing out all other healing jobs. WHM has no place there to begin with, and RDM and SCH don't have the timers to keep up with healing everyone. Which is why DNC was so god-tier at 75. As for limitless TP not engaged. Seriously lol. Quote: you have potency gear....the cap is just 20% lower than noral cure (which is also part of that thing called balancing). Trust me, SE needs to balance the game, but Waltz Cap being 30% isn't doing that, lulz. Quote: well....Haste Samba stacks with marches...and normal haste....and hasso...and then..hey theres steps...you know...the usefull stuff (meaning: the only thing keeping jobs [including DNC] out of VWNM are the stupid player base that just wants to zerg everything down with one job set and if it fails just zombie it down til it regens to 100%) Delay reduction caps you know. Haste Samba is typically completely useless in party settings. Steps aren't amazing enough to make DNC a better job than something else. If that were the case you'd have DRGs everywhere(they're not). DNC does go to Voidwatch btw, they have procs, and quickstep/boxstep are actually useful there. Quote: anyway, you didnt answer my question....why change something thats ment to balance the job just because you have bad prioritizing skills? or that you cant remember that you pretty much will always have an item that will either cure the debuff or get eaten instead of your waltz (cause everyone knows how to time the use of abilities when paralyzed...right?). I don't even know what you're saying here. lol. Why not change waltzes to being charge based? Like have dancer have charges kinda like the way BST has. Even though that would be a pretty massive change to the way dancer works, I would think.
I would only want to separate healing/curing waltz and that's about it. The curing waltzes are fine the way they are timing-wise. Even though it's wishful thinking, maybe adding a TP Samba? Drains TP from the target. That would be pretty awesome. Cerberus.Wolfshadow
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God I can hear nini furiously mashing on her keyboard in a fit of rage, as she readies herself to punch a small panda, or some equally endangered mammal.
Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: » Inuyasha said: » and theres No Foot Rise 5/5 Oh I totally forgot to reply to that. Editted it in. lulz. Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: » God I can hear nini furiously mashing on her keyboard in a fit of rage, as she readies herself to punch a small panda, or some equally endangered mammal. Pretty much. Cerberus.Sephrin said: » Why not change waltzes to being charge based? Like have dancer have charges kinda like the way BST has. Even though that would be a pretty massive change to the way dancer works, I would think. I would only want to separate healing/curing waltz and that's about it. The curing waltzes are fine the way they are timing-wise. Even though it's wishful thinking, maybe adding a TP Samba? Drains TP from the target. That would be pretty awesome. Charges would probably be much worst tbh. It depends on how they did it. I'd at least like healing/curing waltz to be separated, but that's not going to fix DNC. TP Samba is also not going to give DNC a slot in the party unless it was some uber TP-drainage. Judging on SCH and COR, that won't be the case. Offline
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Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: » Inuyasha said: » and theres No Foot Rise 5/5 Probably has Building Flourish fully merited too. Pooman said: » Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: » Inuyasha said: » and theres No Foot Rise 5/5 Probably has Building Flourish fully merited too. |
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