DNC Response From The Devs

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2010-06-21
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DNC Response from the Devs
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 Phoenix.Pooman
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By Phoenix.Pooman 2011-09-08 20:05:55  
Fenrir.Mtmoogle said: »
Pooman said: »
Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: »
Inuyasha said: »
and theres No Foot Rise 5/5
It's at that point that you should probably concede to the fact you know jack diddly about dancer, and are more than likely just spouting off generic nonsense that you don't know about.

Probably has Building Flourish fully merited too.
i like my 5/5 nfr :<

It's cool if you're not hardcore about DNC and all, but the general, I-want-to-be-an-awesome-DNC group will normally put some of those merits somewhere else.
 Fenrir.Niniann
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By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-09-08 20:09:20  
Phoenix.Pooman said: »
It's cool if you're not hardcore about DNC and all, but the general, I-want-to-be-an-awesome-DNC group will normally put some of those merits somewhere else.

TBH all the merits now are kinda meh. It's been proven already that 1/5 Fan/Saber Dance is basically the same as 5/5, minus the fact you can reapply it more often if say you need to cure yourself during Saber Dance.

I'd probably take 5/5 closed position over 5/5NFR just because Presto makes it mostly pointless, but either isn't terrible.

Building Flourish merits however, are an unforgivable sin.
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 Cerberus.Wolfshadow
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By Cerberus.Wolfshadow 2011-09-08 20:12:25  
Pretty sure nini's mad jelly of my step accuracy
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 Cerberus.Valmur
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By Cerberus.Valmur 2011-09-08 20:13:35  
Step acc and building flourish 5/5 sign of a true dnc wolf told me so!
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By Inuyasha 2011-09-08 20:22:30  
Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: »
Inuyasha said: »
and theres No Foot Rise 5/5
It's at that point that you should probably concede to the fact you know jack diddly about dancer, and are more than likely just spouting off generic nonsense that you don't know about.
DNC90...played it since 75....i know what im talking about<3 was also one of those "DDDNC: at 75 too...which i wholely enjoy the enhanced damage they are giving us in these updates~

but either way...what else is there to merit? pretty much a waste to put it in Saber/Fan Dance over 1...and if your tanking on DNC your mostly doing it in eva gear..so 3/5 Closed Position for that extra eva...

anyway...5/5 NFR cause im totally gunna want to do the equivilent of a Presto->Steps every time NFR is up...
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-09-08 20:25:07  
Since when does having the job mean you know what you're talking about? Your words ring hollow, especially given your preference for DD DNC back at 75 cap.

Quote:
and if your tanking on DNC your mostly doing it in eva gear
derp derp full eva onry

Why is this whole concept of trades so hard to understand? Higher base eva = less eva needed in gear = more DD gear = faster kills. If everything you fight is weak enough that the extra acc/eva is irrelevant then it doesn't matter which you merit but 2-3 extra merits in NFR probably isn't making much of a difference there either.
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By Inuyasha 2011-09-08 20:25:20  
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Phoenix.Pooman said: »
It's cool if you're not hardcore about DNC and all, but the general, I-want-to-be-an-awesome-DNC group will normally put some of those merits somewhere else.
TBH all the merits now are kinda meh. It's been proven already that 1/5 Fan/Saber Dance is basically the same as 5/5, minus the fact you can reapply it more often if say you need to cure yourself during Saber Dance. I'd probably take 5/5 closed position over 5/5NFR just because Presto makes it mostly pointless, but either isn't terrible. Building Flourish merits however, are an unforgivable sin.
NFR -> flourishes -> WS -> Presto-> Steps says hi :X

(can switch those around...normally have 5 FM's up when tanking not important stuff)
 Cerberus.Wolfshadow
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By Cerberus.Wolfshadow 2011-09-08 20:29:24  
Inuyasha said: »
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Phoenix.Pooman said: »
It's cool if you're not hardcore about DNC and all, but the general, I-want-to-be-an-awesome-DNC group will normally put some of those merits somewhere else.
TBH all the merits now are kinda meh. It's been proven already that 1/5 Fan/Saber Dance is basically the same as 5/5, minus the fact you can reapply it more often if say you need to cure yourself during Saber Dance. I'd probably take 5/5 closed position over 5/5NFR just because Presto makes it mostly pointless, but either isn't terrible. Building Flourish merits however, are an unforgivable sin.
NFR -> flourishes -> WS -> Presto-> Steps says hi :X

(can switch those around...normally have 5 FM's up when tanking not important stuff)

I'll just leave this here
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By Inuyasha 2011-09-08 20:30:37  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Since when does having the job mean you know what you're talking about? Your words ring hollow, especially given your preference for DD DNC back at 75 cap.
Quote:
and if your tanking on DNC your mostly doing it in eva gear
derp derp full eva onry Why is this whole concept of trades so hard to understand?
yea...cause the only thing you could do at 75 was heal right herpaderp? cause there was totally a way to not gear for DD and do it right..or understand the job enough to make a DD out of it.

basicly...ive seen and done DNChealing onry...its not the ONLY THING the job has and seperating waltz timers isnt going to fix anything about those nostalgia goggles or tardboxes.

Evasion set with Utsusemi....for ***idont want to hit me...Utsusemi and a TPing build for what i can evade without having evasion set on...or isnt worth evading.

btw: trolling me cause i have a different point of view isnt going tog et you anywhere.
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By Inuyasha 2011-09-08 20:31:14  
Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: »
Inuyasha said: »
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Phoenix.Pooman said: »
It's cool if you're not hardcore about DNC and all, but the general, I-want-to-be-an-awesome-DNC group will normally put some of those merits somewhere else.
TBH all the merits now are kinda meh. It's been proven already that 1/5 Fan/Saber Dance is basically the same as 5/5, minus the fact you can reapply it more often if say you need to cure yourself during Saber Dance. I'd probably take 5/5 closed position over 5/5NFR just because Presto makes it mostly pointless, but either isn't terrible. Building Flourish merits however, are an unforgivable sin.
NFR -> flourishes -> WS -> Presto-> Steps says hi :X (can switch those around...normally have 5 FM's up when tanking not important stuff)
I'll just leave this here
i read that...best way to generalize a job ever

edit: howait...thats not the DNC guide...thats just a post saying the exact thing ive been doing...except i dont use my FM's to SSC
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-09-08 20:34:34  
Inuyasha said: »
yea...cause the only thing you could do at 75 was heal right herpaderp?
Do well? Pretty much, yeah.

Quote:
cause there was totally a way to not gear for DD and do it right..or understand the job enough to make a DD out of it.
You're still deliberately choosing a bottom-tier setup over what was god-tier for anything involving fodder mobs aside from Salvage.

Quote:
trolling
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 Cerberus.Wolfshadow
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By Cerberus.Wolfshadow 2011-09-08 20:34:53  
Inuyasha said: »
basicly...ive seen and done DNChealing onry...its not the ONLY THING the job has
Noone is saying anything about it being the only thing the job has, what we are saying is it was one of the only things that made the job even relevant at 75
Nowadays the point of dancer is hard to be rationalized when putting one inside of your party in comparison to the far more efficient alternatives'

Inuyasha said: »
btw: enlightening me cause i have an incorrect and uneducated point of view isnt going tog et you anywhere.

we've gathered
 Phoenix.Pooman
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By Phoenix.Pooman 2011-09-08 20:36:49  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Inuyasha said: »
yea...cause the only thing you could do at 75 was heal right herpaderp?
Do well? Pretty much, yeah.

Quote:
cause there was totally a way to not gear for DD and do it right..or understand the job enough to make a DD out of it.
You're still deliberately choosing a bottom-tier setup over what was god-tier for every event involving fodder mobs.

Quote:
trolling

Isn't that the word you use when someone disagrees with you in a reasonable way?
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By Inuyasha 2011-09-08 20:38:14  
Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: »
Inuyasha said: »
basicly...ive seen and done DNChealing onry...its not the ONLY THING the job has
Noone is saying anything about it being the only thing the job has, what we are saying is it was one of the only things that made the job even relevant at 75 Nowadays the point of dancer is hard to be rationalized when putting one inside of your party in comparison to the far more efficient alternatives'
Inuyasha said: »
btw: enlightening me cause i have an incorrect and uneducated point of view isnt going tog et you anywhere.
we've gathered
nice, you put words in there that i didnt say, i see what you did thar.
(also, your wrong. i know what im doing...and im well educated in my views on the job and what would potentially "fix" something that isnt really broken to begin with.)
 
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By Inuyasha 2011-09-08 20:39:34  
Phoenix.Pooman said: »
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Inuyasha said: »
yea...cause the only thing you could do at 75 was heal right herpaderp?
Do well? Pretty much, yeah.
Quote:
cause there was totally a way to not gear for DD and do it right..or understand the job enough to make a DD out of it.
You're still deliberately choosing a bottom-tier setup over what was god-tier for every event involving fodder mobs.
Quote:
trolling
Isn't that the word you use when someone disagrees with you in a reasonable way?
nah...its what happens when you say something...then an *** just HAS to come in and tell you your wrong...with inflamatory statements...and then his buddies come in to jump you...and spam the forum with 55 more pages of explaining what i already understand.
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By Inuyasha 2011-09-08 20:42:01  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Inuyasha said: »
yea...cause the only thing you could do at 75 was heal right herpaderp?
Do well? Pretty much, yeah.
Quote:
cause there was totally a way to not gear for DD and do it right..or understand the job enough to make a DD out of it.
You're still deliberately choosing a bottom-tier setup over what was god-tier for anything involving fodder mobs aside from Salvage.
Quote:
trolling
1)do well, but is not the ONLY thing it did well...or did at all.

2)i switched in and out as priorities required...if party was full and wherent bieng utter tards i could WS and do damage and if ***went bad switch out of DD mode and go back to heal. it wasnt that hard really

3) i see what you did thar.

ninja: edited before you came back with the grammar nazi
 Cerberus.Wolfshadow
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By Cerberus.Wolfshadow 2011-09-08 20:43:01  
Inuyasha said: »
Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: »
Inuyasha said: »
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Phoenix.Pooman said: »
It's cool if you're not hardcore about DNC and all, but the general, I-want-to-be-an-awesome-DNC group will normally put some of those merits somewhere else.
TBH all the merits now are kinda meh. It's been proven already that 1/5 Fan/Saber Dance is basically the same as 5/5, minus the fact you can reapply it more often if say you need to cure yourself during Saber Dance. I'd probably take 5/5 closed position over 5/5NFR just because Presto makes it mostly pointless, but either isn't terrible. Building Flourish merits however, are an unforgivable sin.
NFR -> flourishes -> WS -> Presto-> Steps says hi :X (can switch those around...normally have 5 FM's up when tanking not important stuff)
I'll just leave this here
i read that...best way to generalize a job ever

edit: howait...thats not the DNC guide...thats just a post saying the exact thing ive been doing...except i dont use my FM's to SSC
Inuyasha said: »
NFR -> flourishes -> WS -> Presto-> Steps says hi :X
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
best solution is to go Step -> Building -> TP more -> Presto -> Step -> WS -> 2x round -> Reverse -> WS

Did you even open the thread much less read it?
Noone can be this ignorant
Seriously
I'm strongly suspecting troll
Regardless I give up, it's like talking to a dyslexic wall
Your witness nini
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-09-08 20:45:36  
Inuyasha said: »
2)i switched in and out as priorities required...if party was full and wherent bieng utter tards i could WS and do damage and if ***went bad switch out of DD mode and go back to heal. it wasnt that hard really
I'm assuming you mean "using Seigan/Utsusemi", which invalidates the point of having a DNC present to begin with. In other words, your mediocre style was justified by the needs of the mediocre people you were healing, or not healing given that they weren't using Hasso as they should have been.
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By Inuyasha 2011-09-08 20:46:06  
Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: »
Inuyasha said: »
Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: »
Inuyasha said: »
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Phoenix.Pooman said: »
It's cool if you're not hardcore about DNC and all, but the general, I-want-to-be-an-awesome-DNC group will normally put some of those merits somewhere else.
TBH all the merits now are kinda meh. It's been proven already that 1/5 Fan/Saber Dance is basically the same as 5/5, minus the fact you can reapply it more often if say you need to cure yourself during Saber Dance. I'd probably take 5/5 closed position over 5/5NFR just because Presto makes it mostly pointless, but either isn't terrible. Building Flourish merits however, are an unforgivable sin.
NFR -> flourishes -> WS -> Presto-> Steps says hi :X (can switch those around...normally have 5 FM's up when tanking not important stuff)
I'll just leave this here
i read that...best way to generalize a job ever edit: howait...thats not the DNC guide...thats just a post saying the exact thing ive been doing...except i dont use my FM's to SSC
Inuyasha said: »
NFR -> flourishes -> WS -> Presto-> Steps says hi :X
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
best solution is to go Step -> Building -> TP more -> Presto -> Step -> WS -> 2x round -> Reverse -> WS
Did you even open the thread much less read it? Noone can be this ignorant Seriously I'm strongly suspecting troll Regardless I give up, it's like talking to a dyslexic wall Your witness nini
in my case that i stated i already have the necessary TP...i just skipped the gaining TP part in your situation.

ive been reading this forum for a while..took a while with all the Q_Qing about waltz timers for 10 pages though

ohwait: you meant THAT forum...yea...ive read/glanced through pretty much all ofem...

and no im not ignorant....nor am i trolling. I know how to use my FM's i just dont list out pointless steps because i already have atleast 100 TP and dont do all the extra little things when im actually on DNC for stuff (if not tanking or bieng the support)
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By Inuyasha 2011-09-08 20:47:50  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Inuyasha said: »
2)i switched in and out as priorities required...if party was full and wherent bieng utter tards i could WS and do damage and if ***went bad switch out of DD mode and go back to heal. it wasnt that hard really
I'm assuming you mean "using Seigan/Utsusemi", which invalidates the point of having a DNC present to begin with. In other words, your mediocre style was justified by the needs of the mediocre people you were healing, or not healing given that they weren't using Hasso as they should have been.
nice assuming bro,

i meant not needing to heal them because everyone remained at full health or within acceptable percentages where i could easily cure them back. Seigan/UTsusemi wouldve helped with it more....but meh
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-09-08 20:49:06  
You'll have to explain how your DDs were going balls to the wall yet somehow being smart about damage taken then, without wasting resources in other party slots.
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By Inuyasha 2011-09-08 20:50:58  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
You'll have to explain how your DDs were going balls to the wall yet somehow being smart about damage taken then, without wasting resources in other party slots.
cause i had good priorities? like healing them THEN going to DD and (if they went down again) heal again?

also: im talking like G.Colibri fights didnt last all but 5 seconds...so it was mostly healing...then DDing the start of the next mob (if i could even draw my weapons/target the mob)
 Fenrir.Niniann
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By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-09-08 21:17:41  
Inuyasha said: »
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
You'll have to explain how your DDs were going balls to the wall yet somehow being smart about damage taken then, without wasting resources in other party slots.
cause i had good priorities? like healing them THEN going to DD and (if they went down again) heal again?

also: im talking like G.Colibri fights didnt last all but 5 seconds...so it was mostly healing...then DDing the start of the next mob (if i could even draw my weapons/target the mob)

Alright look... There honestly isn't a situation (if done properly) where DDs aren't taking damage that DNC needs to heal. IF there is such a situation, you have too many mages, your DDs aren't going balls-to-the-walls, or some other inefficient setup.

I'm going to note if you can't target the mobs on colibri before it dies, you're doing a great disservice to your party. You can go ahead and claim they die too fast all you want, but I've managed 40k/hr parties at 75 on birds, and was able to engage each mob start to finish. It's called auto-attack and positioning yourself in a manner that allows you to engage the next mob as the puller brings it to you, without disengaging.

On Birds, if your party was going balls to the walls, and you were the sole healer, there's absolutely no way in *** hell you can manage WSing once in the party much less multiple times. This is assuming perfect gear too.
 Carbuncle.Asymptotic
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-09-08 21:25:57  
Law of Birds:

As the length of a FFXI forum discussion approaches infinity, the probability that the discussion will decline into one of Greater Colibri approaches 1.
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 Fenrir.Niniann
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By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-09-08 21:33:32  
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »
Law of Birds:

As the length of a FFXI forum discussion approaches infinity, the probability that the discussion will decline into one of Greater Colibri approaches 1.

Have my babies.
 Leviathan.Novax
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By Leviathan.Novax 2011-09-08 21:34:29  
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »
Law of Birds:

As the length of a FFXI forum discussion approaches infinity, the probability that the discussion will decline into one of Greater Colibri approaches 1.

Have my babies.

That's cheating!
 Carbuncle.Asymptotic
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-09-08 22:13:43  
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »
Law of Birds:

As the length of a FFXI forum discussion approaches infinity, the probability that the discussion will decline into one of Greater Colibri approaches 1.

Have my babies.

It's bad enough to push a watermelon out of a hole the size of a golf ball.

I can't imagine pushing a watermelon out of a hole the size of a stirrer straw thingy.
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By Inuyasha 2011-09-08 22:51:50  
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Inuyasha said: »
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
You'll have to explain how your DDs were going balls to the wall yet somehow being smart about damage taken then, without wasting resources in other party slots.
cause i had good priorities? like healing them THEN going to DD and (if they went down again) heal again? also: im talking like G.Colibri fights didnt last all but 5 seconds...so it was mostly healing...then DDing the start of the next mob (if i could even draw my weapons/target the mob)
Alright look... There honestly isn't a situation (if done properly) where DDs aren't taking damage that DNC needs to heal. IF there is such a situation, you have too many mages, your DDs aren't going balls-to-the-walls, or some other inefficient setup. I'm going to note if you can't target the mobs on colibri before it dies, you're doing a great disservice to your party. You can go ahead and claim they die too fast all you want, but I've managed 40k/hr parties at 75 on birds, and was able to engage each mob start to finish. It's called auto-attack and positioning yourself in a manner that allows you to engage the next mob as the puller brings it to you, without disengaging. On Birds, if your party was going balls to the walls, and you were the sole healer, there's absolutely no way in *** hell you can manage WSing once in the party much less multiple times. This is assuming perfect gear too.
your also assuming far too much...but ok.

also: this is where those NFR merits come into play....5 FM's for reverse when you cant really engage the mobs before they die.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-09-08 22:56:26  
If her assumptions are false, you probably would have contributed more on a different job. Still doesn't support your position.
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