Level 30~+'s In Abyssea????
Level 30~+'s in Abyssea????
It's a matter of progression. Yeah you can know how something works and use common sense to go from there, but utilizing and and trying it for yourself is different.
I don't enjoy playing low levels, at all. Hence still having most jobs locked. Simply taking the time to learn how the job works is all that is really necessary, as far as I'm concerned, to be good at a job. There are jobs I would like to level, but stopped because I hate grinding. I find it pointless.
Tiger said it already, give a good player a lv80 job and they'll figure it out without much trouble. I don't feel the grind does anything for skill.
Clueless people will always be clueless. Good players need not grind.
Tiger said it already, give a good player a lv80 job and they'll figure it out without much trouble. I don't feel the grind does anything for skill.
Clueless people will always be clueless. Good players need not grind.
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Fenrir.Tool said:
Feel free to disagree with me here but here's my 2 gil:
I will have significantly more respect for someone who took the time, effort and patience to actually take interest in their chosen job class and "goes through the ropes" so to speak by gaining their exp in a manner that actually lets them use their abilities, spells in a timely manner for various situations. This can vary from such things as:
Giving a "na" spell quickly on the appropriate player first
Keeping a buff cycle with no to minimal downtime
Dropping a cure in a timely manner when the tank gets hit hard
Using appropriate weapon skills based on mob weakness/evasion/defense or skillchain.
Actually magic bursting
Timing and making the most of job abilities, such as meditate, focus, sekkinoki, berserk, unlimited shot, etc.
Going through various equipment changes from beginning to cap, and opening eyes to necessary sets down the line.
Etc. etc. etc. etc.
As opposed to simply sitting around picking your nose while exp was given to you by the grace of someone nice enough to let you leech in abyssea or an astral burn party.
I will have significantly more respect for someone who took the time, effort and patience to actually take interest in their chosen job class and "goes through the ropes" so to speak by gaining their exp in a manner that actually lets them use their abilities, spells in a timely manner for various situations. This can vary from such things as:
Giving a "na" spell quickly on the appropriate player first
Keeping a buff cycle with no to minimal downtime
Dropping a cure in a timely manner when the tank gets hit hard
Using appropriate weapon skills based on mob weakness/evasion/defense or skillchain.
Actually magic bursting
Timing and making the most of job abilities, such as meditate, focus, sekkinoki, berserk, unlimited shot, etc.
Going through various equipment changes from beginning to cap, and opening eyes to necessary sets down the line.
Etc. etc. etc. etc.
As opposed to simply sitting around picking your nose while exp was given to you by the grace of someone nice enough to let you leech in abyssea or an astral burn party.
I'm a BRD, and I've been meriting on BRD since 2004. There have always been an overwhelming number of people who never learned how to do that even when they had no other options at all. Level sync, SMN pt, and abyssea didn't always exist to explain away lack of skill/knowledge, and the vast VAST majority of pickup players would be undergeared, unskilled, and generally clueless. People have been sucking since the beginning of the game, and while it is very convenient to blame it on SMN burning and other methods of "easy" EXP, the straight fact is that many people who play this game are just intensely stupid. They don't pay attention and they don't listen, because the general attitude toward EXP is that it's a joke and a breeze, and anyone should be able to make infinity EXP per hour just thinking about it. It's an attitude that isn't new or surprising, but over time it's been attributed to everything from the job you play to the console you play on to the method by which you gain EXP. Stupid people are just stupid and abundant.
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Fenrir.Tool said:
I understand this, it was merely a manner of respect/patience. I simply think leeching exp to 75/80 kind of undermines the whole point of playing/experiencing a new job class or even enjoying the game for that matter.
I simply think there's more to the game than being awesome @80, that's all.
You make it sound like SMN buring or Abyssea parties aren't fun, and just a means to an end.
I enjoyed joining pickup parties and grinding to 75. I did it 7 times, and many more jobs to the middle levels.
What level syncing did for my play style was what I envisioned it doing. Instead of joining pickup parties with strangers, I was able to make parties with friends, instead of whoever was around my level and interested in partying at the time.
Syncing alone didn't do this though, because even with level syncing you don't always have 5 other friends who want to level at the same time as you...unless you temp them with mad exp. Then they want to exp all the time, for hours on end, day after day. All good times spent with friends.
I'm not going to try and say that I don't like the exp, but the primary draw for me when I did Qufim parties and later SMN burns was getting to hang out with friends with everyone having a blast.
The one drawback to that was that I wasn't meeting new people or making new friends. I've made lots of friends over the years by randomly encountering them in a pickup party.
That one drawback though is kinda fixed with Abyssea. Since a whole alliance can exp together, you can level with a ton of your friends, and their friends, and their lsmates, and some random people seeking. It's like all the best parts of everything rolled into one.
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Fenrir.Tool said:
It's a matter of progression. Yeah you can know how something works and use common sense to go from there, but utilizing and and trying it for yourself is different.
Well that would take all of 15 minutes if you actually knew what you were doing full well.
To be clear, I understand fully that if you take a new player from level one and Summoner burn him to cap, as opposed to letting him play through a party and becoming acquainted with the game the first time around, he would undoubtedly be ***.
That doesn't mean someone who already had a few jobs at 75 and wished to Astral Burn some more will be clueless.
Blanket statements are a bad thing.
That doesn't mean someone who already had a few jobs at 75 and wished to Astral Burn some more will be clueless.
Blanket statements are a bad thing.
This is some funny ***. What kinda lifeless morons actually says I respect those who took the time to lvl their jobs the old fashion way. This is not a job or a *** college. It's a dam game. It's really not that serious unless you make it that way. Any fool that has the balls to say it's hard work sitting on you *** in front of a tv for hrs playing a dam game need to put their face in a dirty toilet and swallow. That way when ***comes out of their mouth, at least they have a good reason why lol
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Just want to make sure I'm not misunderstood on a few topics:
1) Traditional exp parties can (again subjective to the individual here) be fun, help you be better at your class, and overall can contribute to enjoyment to the game and help make friends down the line.
2) If you find endgame material to be the only enjoyable aspect of the game, and you deem yourself a skilled player overall, then by all means leech to 80. I simply think it undermines playing and experiencing a class through progression, not to mention enjoying the game as a whole.
3) I am not saying burning to 80 automatically makes you gimp/unskilled. Of course common sense can be applied to nearly all aspects of every class and I am sure you'll make it out fine. I simply think there's a difference between starting up and learning as you go as opposed to taking it all in at once. If done right, the results will be the same, the only difference is you hit the fast forward button so to speak.
The only real problem from this applies to "new" players, and those who remain ignorant to others and are stuck in their own ways.
1) Traditional exp parties can (again subjective to the individual here) be fun, help you be better at your class, and overall can contribute to enjoyment to the game and help make friends down the line.
2) If you find endgame material to be the only enjoyable aspect of the game, and you deem yourself a skilled player overall, then by all means leech to 80. I simply think it undermines playing and experiencing a class through progression, not to mention enjoying the game as a whole.
3) I am not saying burning to 80 automatically makes you gimp/unskilled. Of course common sense can be applied to nearly all aspects of every class and I am sure you'll make it out fine. I simply think there's a difference between starting up and learning as you go as opposed to taking it all in at once. If done right, the results will be the same, the only difference is you hit the fast forward button so to speak.
The only real problem from this applies to "new" players, and those who remain ignorant to others and are stuck in their own ways.
Sylph.Linkk said:
This is some funny ***. What kinda lifeless morons actually says I respect those who took the time to lvl their jobs the old fashion way. This is not a job or a *** college. It's a dam game. It's really not that serious unless you make it that way. Any fool that has the balls to say it's hard work sitting on you *** in front of a tv for hrs playing a dam game need to put their face in a dirty toilet and swallow. That way when ***comes out of their mouth, at least they have a good reason why lol
Well forgive me if I actually get some enjoyment out of the game and take the time to smell the roses.
Don't give yourself the misconception that anything here was taken seriously.
Kinda sounds like you get enjoyment out of looking down on a segment of the population, and generally feeling superior. You have more "respect" for players who do things the way you think is best, and you think players who use other methods are likely to be inferior? That's just a gross attitude to encounter in anyone.
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Bahamut.Ivve said:
Kinda sounds like you get enjoyment out of looking down on a segment of the population, and generally feeling superior. You have more "respect" for players who do things the way you think is best, and you think players who use other methods are likely to be inferior? That's just a gross attitude to encounter in anyone.
Fenrir.Tool said:
2) If you find endgame material to be the only enjoyable aspect of the game, and you deem yourself a skilled player overall, then by all means leech to 80. I simply think it undermines playing and experiencing a class through progression, not to mention enjoying the game as a whole.
Fenrir.Tool said:
Don't give yourself the misconception that anything here was taken seriously.
I don't really look down upon anyone in particular. However, I do look up to and rather associate myself with people who enjoy the game as a whole and play it for what it is and has to offer rather than those who must and only get anything out of being on top.
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Before level sync, I'd say you probably did gain a bit of skill leveling your job in the traditional way. However, now you just get invited to the same levels over and over again, because it's quicker exp. 19, 37, 55, 63 are about the only levels I've partied on in the past year.
If people are new to the game, they won't really know how to play and will have gimped skills if they party anyway. A veteran player will know where to go (friends, LS mates, the internetz) to find the info they need to play their job correctly. And it's not like anyone agrees on the 'correct' way to play most jobs anyway. :\
tl;dr If you speed level and you suck at 80, don't get upset when people tell you. I just don't think traditional leveling is a requirement for playing a game well, but it helps.
If people are new to the game, they won't really know how to play and will have gimped skills if they party anyway. A veteran player will know where to go (friends, LS mates, the internetz) to find the info they need to play their job correctly. And it's not like anyone agrees on the 'correct' way to play most jobs anyway. :\
tl;dr If you speed level and you suck at 80, don't get upset when people tell you. I just don't think traditional leveling is a requirement for playing a game well, but it helps.
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Tool, I completely understand where you are coming from. I don't call myself a pro, nor will I do. That's absurd. If I was a pro, I'd be making $$$ off of this. All Tool is saying, and I do agree, if you play this for fun, as much as I do, You will be able to grasp the concept of game mechanics ( Thanks to Ariane on this point too!),you will have the knowledge to play well.
I know that if you want to take the easy way, and leech thats fine, but once you get to the highest lvl 80, or w.e it is( soon it will be 90 then 99 etc..) then you'll going to have to learn about skilling up your skills and properly playing your job. That's it.
I know that if you want to take the easy way, and leech thats fine, but once you get to the highest lvl 80, or w.e it is( soon it will be 90 then 99 etc..) then you'll going to have to learn about skilling up your skills and properly playing your job. That's it.
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At least with Abyssea, you know SE intended people to level that way. You can't really fault anyone or judge them for using an event SE added, clearly with the intention of making levelling a little easier, to get to 80 super fast.
Lakshmi.Aeyela said:
At least with Abyssea, you know SE intended people to level that way. You can't really fault anyone or judge them for using an event SE added, clearly with the intention of making levelling a little easier, to get to 80 super fast.
People will always find a means to a means, if you know what I mean
floggingdeadhorse.jpg
EDIT: My bad, no wonder it didn't work..
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EDIT: My bad, no wonder it didn't work..
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Bahamut.Ivve said:
Fenrir.Tool said:
I don't really look down upon anyone in particular. However, I do look up to and rather associate myself with people who enjoy the game as a whole and play it for what it is and has to offer rather than those who must and only get anything out of being on top.
If you set some people above other people, that means you believe there are 2 tiers of people. Some are better than others. How that can escape your notice, I'm not sure, but it's a really smarmy, pathetic sort of attitude to have in a video game.
Also, there are some people who enjoy a variety of things in the game, but grinding EXP is just not one of them. Just because you have 75+ jobs doesn't mean you limit yourself to a particular set of events. You sure have a lot of preconceptions and judgments for someone who is oblivious to them.
You know what, I've explained myself many times, and it still flies over your head. So, whatever helps you sleep at night kiddo.
Objectivism within the game is relative to the individual at hand.
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Bahamut.Ivve said:
Fenrir.Tool said:
I don't really look down upon anyone in particular. However, I do look up to and rather associate myself with people who enjoy the game as a whole and play it for what it is and has to offer rather than those who must and only get anything out of being on top.
If you set some people above other people, that means you believe there are 2 tiers of people. Some are better than others. How that can escape your notice, I'm not sure, but it's a really smarmy, pathetic sort of attitude to have in a video game.
Also, there are some people who enjoy a variety of things in the game, but grinding EXP is just not one of them. Just because you have 75+ jobs doesn't mean you limit yourself to a particular set of events. You sure have a lot of preconceptions and judgments for someone who is oblivious to them.
He never said here in the quote that he's setting limits to the type of ppl he plays with, all he said was he doesn't look down at anyone, then inputted an opinion about how the type of ppl play. Elite ppl play this type and the cheater leech type play this type. He was dicussing the types of roles the gamers play on FFXI. I agree with Tool, there are alot of elitists on here, from what I have seen and read.
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Bahamut.Ivve said:
He said he would "rather associate [himself] with people who enjoy the game as a whole and play it for what it is and has to offer rather than those who must and only get anything out of being on top." How is that not a judgment about people who level through nontraditional means? How is it not looking down on other people when you clearly think that there are some out there who are better, or more deserving of your time and consideration? I'm just saying, you should really examine what you've said here, because you really aren't as unbiased as you think you are. Maybe you've just poorly phrased whatever it was you meant to say.
There are a lot of people who are perfectly fine players, are generally nice people, and enjoy a wide range of activities that simply do not include EXP parties. They'd like to level another job, but the idea of spending weeks (or months, depending on the job) in EXP parties completely kills any desire they may have had. That person is not incapable of "stopping to smell the roses," and honestly I'm not sure that's even a valid thing to say about FFXI. Please elaborate on what activities you're missing out on by leveling your jobs through Abyssea/SMN burn/whathaveyou. I don't see it as missing out on anything.
What I see is that you'll be able to do your own AF coffers and whatnot if you choose. You'll have plenty of skilling up to do, which will drive you to participate in besieged, tag along to help with someone's magian trial mobs, do some FoV pages by yourself or with friends for tabs (and possibly augment things while you're out there, if you're into that), or just make old-fashioned skillup parties either with friends or through /shout, giving you the opportunity to meet new people. You have a whole new job to take around and do anything with, at any level. You can use it in BCNMs, which are still capped, or take it out to campaign to experiment with your macros and gear. I feel like it opens up MORE things to you immediately, because you can really take it to anything at any level, assuming you have appropriate skill/gear and basic knowledge necessary.
I guess I just don't get this like, lowbie-elitist attitude, where people think it's immensely cool to take months to level or be level 37 forever because preserving some kind of low-level innocence makes your gameplay more pristine. It's just *** weird.
There are a lot of people who are perfectly fine players, are generally nice people, and enjoy a wide range of activities that simply do not include EXP parties. They'd like to level another job, but the idea of spending weeks (or months, depending on the job) in EXP parties completely kills any desire they may have had. That person is not incapable of "stopping to smell the roses," and honestly I'm not sure that's even a valid thing to say about FFXI. Please elaborate on what activities you're missing out on by leveling your jobs through Abyssea/SMN burn/whathaveyou. I don't see it as missing out on anything.
What I see is that you'll be able to do your own AF coffers and whatnot if you choose. You'll have plenty of skilling up to do, which will drive you to participate in besieged, tag along to help with someone's magian trial mobs, do some FoV pages by yourself or with friends for tabs (and possibly augment things while you're out there, if you're into that), or just make old-fashioned skillup parties either with friends or through /shout, giving you the opportunity to meet new people. You have a whole new job to take around and do anything with, at any level. You can use it in BCNMs, which are still capped, or take it out to campaign to experiment with your macros and gear. I feel like it opens up MORE things to you immediately, because you can really take it to anything at any level, assuming you have appropriate skill/gear and basic knowledge necessary.
I guess I just don't get this like, lowbie-elitist attitude, where people think it's immensely cool to take months to level or be level 37 forever because preserving some kind of low-level innocence makes your gameplay more pristine. It's just *** weird.
You're giving yourself a complex over something rather simple and insignificant.
Also you seem to be mistaken in thinking that having like minded friends automatically equals passing judgment to the other party.
I'll spell it out for you since you seem to have difficulty understanding my point:
I enjoy playing the game in a matter of progression and flow. You prefer to have everything open up to you at once.
Nothing wrong with either side, strictly a matter of preference. Skill/good/bad players in the end come down strictly to the individual and their attitude of playing in the end.
Fenrir.Tool said:
You're giving yourself a complex over something rather simple and insignificant.
Calling her argument overdeveloped does not make it less correct.
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Cerberus.Cair said:
Fenrir.Tool said:
You're giving yourself a complex over something rather simple and insignificant.
Calling her argument overdeveloped does not make it less correct.
Simply pointing out that it was a lengthy argument given for something that never existed in the first place.
The key word in everything I'm trying to say is progression.
Cerberus.Cair said:
Fenrir.Tool said:
You're giving yourself a complex over something rather simple and insignificant.
Calling her argument overdeveloped does not make it less correct.
I didn't read the whole humongous garbage post, but taking in mind the general message of the poster most can usually make a sound decision.
Tool has a fancy for people that aren't balls deep in endgame.
Ivve seems to be getting all worked up about nothing.
Fenrir.Tool said:
I don't really look down upon anyone in particular. However, I do look up to and rather associate myself with people who enjoy the game as a whole and play it for what it is and has to offer rather than those who must and only get anything out of being on top.
Soooo he doesn't look down on anyone in particular.
That's just poor wording in discussion.
In particular infers that he in fact does look down on a group of people, so really. poor wording gets the goat on that one.
He looks up to people who play the game to enjoy it, doesn't really infer that he looks down on anyone in this sentence.
"Rather than those who must and only get anything out of being on top"-this one is round 2 in poor wording, you left him openings Tool, pretty much.
Pointless argument is pointless.
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Bahamut.Ivve said:
Looking up to some people means that you consider others less significant. You just can't have it any other way
You really are making a meal out of nothing here, lol.
It's a silly attitude. OH HOW I ADMIRE THESE PEOPLE FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE! That doesn't strike anyone else as bizarre?
Bahamut.Ivve said:
It's a silly attitude. OH HOW I ADMIRE THESE PEOPLE FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE! That doesn't strike anyone else as bizarre?
Not really. it just means that ppl have an idea and its basically a yes or no answer. Agree or disagree.
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