Level 30~+'s In Abyssea????

The whole argument is pretty much people who know they took a shortcut and didn't put as much work into their character as they really feel they should, try and make themselves feel better by saying that experience - points or otherwise - doesn't effect how they play the game.

I am not saying that, at all - just pointing out that you sound a little defensive. I don't think anyone, even the full on critics, think that EVERYONE who's SMN burned is bad at their job. Just that some might not be as good.

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But let's weigh this out.

"Traditional" xp:
Pros: Slightly better understanding of a new job.
Cons: Time.


"Burning:"
Pros: Time.
Cons: Weapon skills, obtaining all spell/abilities, understanding your role.

Just an opinion. The way I see it, if you feel like you've got the cons covered, you'd be crazy not to.

HI IVVE

SE understands that people are finding new ways of leveling. Level Sync PTs, MMM Sync PTs, Flowing, and even Abyss PTs enable you to level quickly, but at the loss of their skills leveling.

That's why they introduced Martial master with the Kupopowers, to help the "newer generation" of leveling to make a smooth transition between level syncing to harder content.

I see what you mean.

I've never really been either against or for smn burn. I just think that some jobs shouldnt really be burned. Say PLD. PLD as a job is so much more than just capped shield skill and provoke/flash. For some jobs, like PLD, RDM, BLM and I'd assume BLU as well. People who have leveled those jobs in the old fashion way, have not only spent a lot of time to lv the job. But during this time they have found out what they did wrong, how to improve their game play as well as gear. I know lots of people that have spent a lot of time tweaking macros and equippment to be the best they can at certain jobs.

Hell, if you wanna burn sam, war, mnk, drg or w/e DD job I couldnt care less as long as you skillup your weapon. 95% of DD's these days seems to only /auto attack and spam ws macro anyway.

When it comes to SMN I can only assume its extremely painful to skill up the magic though. I know when I lv my smn to 66 it was really painful to try and keep the skills capped. The whole summon, resummon to skillup is just realy annoying (unless maybe you have a bot to do it for you?)

While jobs as for example RDM or BRD you can go skillup enfeeb/singing/wind pretty easy in both besieged and on penises in sea.

But as I said, certain jobs I dont think should be burned, unless by a very stubborn person who is determined to cap all skill before taking the job on events or exp/merit pt's.

SMN, RDM, BLM, BRD, PLD is some of the jobs that comes to my mind.

Edit: Woot I found an un-delete button! best thing ever!

Very well said. In addition, the time one would spend skilling up and filling out one's knowledge of their role in a group would most likely be small compared to the hours spent grinding on birds or whatever. My 2 cents.

Not 100% true. My gear is terrible, and my skill is still only 165~. Yet, I've gotten numerous 1k+ PC (mostly 850-900) on Tiamat with < 100 Summoning skill. I've also parsed first in Ode of Life Bestowing with < 125 Summoning skill (yes, we won). I'm not saying my Smn is amazing, but if all people want from my Smn is damage, I do just fine.

My buffs and siphons suck, sure. Do I care about Smn? no.

Then another question, why even bother to take a job you dont care at all for to lv 80? Seems kind of pointless imo.

Because Smn is a merit *** job. Much like people level Brd simply for merits, I joined linkshell Smn burns starting at level 12. A few weeks later I was meriting on Smn. I've gotten around 125 merits this way, all of which were spent on the jobs I care about.

lolNiger

Feel free to disagree with me here but here's my 2 gil:

I will have significantly more respect for someone who took the time, effort and patience to actually take interest in their chosen job class and "goes through the ropes" so to speak by gaining their exp in a manner that actually lets them use their abilities, spells in a timely manner for various situations. This can vary from such things as:

Giving a "na" spell quickly on the appropriate player first
Keeping a buff cycle with no to minimal downtime
Dropping a cure in a timely manner when the tank gets hit hard
Using appropriate weapon skills based on mob weakness/evasion/defense or skillchain.
Actually magic bursting
Timing and making the most of job abilities, such as meditate, focus, sekkinoki, berserk, unlimited shot, etc.
Going through various equipment changes from beginning to cap, and opening eyes to necessary sets down the line.
Etc. etc. etc. etc.

As opposed to simply sitting around picking your nose while exp was given to you by the grace of someone nice enough to let you leech in abyssea or an astral burn party.

It makes no diff. You talk like ffxi is hard. If you took a job and lv'd 1-75 starting today the regular way, and you give me a lv 75 job I've never played right now. By the time you hit 75, who is gonna play that job better, me or you?

Me, easily.

Simply a difference of opinion. I think it would be more fun (albeit more time consuming) to experience and play a job from beginning to end while progressing yourself as you level, as opposed to jumping immediately to 75/80 and learning everything pertaining only to being capped.

If the person's bad at the game / job, they're still going to be bad at the game / job if they grind exp or astral burn it.

Ditto for good players.

Guess what the beginning to the end experience gives you? If you want to start a new char and lv all over again. The only ***that matters when you are capped is capped level. You do not need to play lv 1-74 to be good at lv 75. Or in this case 80

I understand this, it was merely a manner of respect/patience. I simply think leeching exp to 75/80 kind of undermines the whole point of playing/experiencing a new job class or even enjoying the game for that matter.

I simply think there's more to the game than being awesome @80, that's all.

Oh, because you lv'd drg and penta spammed nothing but bird lv sync to 75, you have to repeat the same process on sam penta thrust birds till 75 to enjoy the game?

I know I mentioned this to a few of my friends in linkshell, last night, It may be a good idea at first, but it will definatley gomp your player, as others may have stated. However, though, the good part about this, sure you'll level fast, point, (big but here) you're going ot be doing alot of soloing magic skills and weapon skilling by yourself. Really gimping yourself out bad!

I can see if your like 4 or 5 levels shy, but 30-60 hmmm, big question?

Nevermind, you seemed to have completely missed my point. It'll only be as you described if you let it be that way.

Just wait, the Pwners will have to be more awesomesauce when they hit 90 and then after that at 99. Like it was when awesomeness was 75... They will still be that way, I suppose =/.

Basically what Tiger is saying is that at 75/80, you actually learn how to play the game as endgame. You learn how to fight the biggest and the baddest.

From 1-75/80, all you do is burn on weak ***. Paladin for example. You can play paladin from 1 to 75, and still absolutely suck at endgame because you are inefficient at macro swapping. You spent all that time going from 1 to 80, but are out tanked by the guy with the better gear and better ability to macro swap properly.

The 1-80 adventure is no longer useful in any way shape or form. It has been obsolete for some time now. People need to stop hanging on to that nonsense. Leveling a job from 1 to 80 will not make you any better at endgame.

I'm one of the best healers in my linkshell. My red mage gear isn't phenomenal but my use of macros and quick reflexes makes me better than a lot of our healers. I burned my red mage to 75 and then Abyssea'd to 80. When we do events, people try to invite me the quickest when I'm on my red mage.

Just another example of how the track from 1 to 80 is irrelevant.



This game does a poor job of helping you hone in on your skills pre endgame. Take WoW for example. You do dungeons all the way from like level 20 to cap. You learn how to do endgame type events and party type play through these dungeons, and you get practice and become better at it as you level. FFXI doesn't really provide you with this type of experience, and then all of a sudden at max level you're smacked in the face by a learning curve.

Pretty much yeah. Thank you for that, was pretty funny lol.

Good vid, and definatley spells out the truth about just sitting there and and taking all the free levels and gimping yourself.


Good job Rowland of prooving Tool's point to the Pwners!

HURRAY!

Argument 1:
Exp parties are fun and a complete, stand-alone part of the game for people to enjoy.

Response:
Go ahead, I prefer endgame content with people I know to grouping with random people (who are often bad at their jobs and poorly geared).

Argument 2:
Exp parties teach people how to play their jobs.

Response:
No, they don't.

#1 is merely a matter of preference. IMO giving yourself a shortcut to each and every class only to play the high level spectrum of the game only will leave you jaded more quickly in the end.

Also #2 is subjective to the individual. Bad players will be bad players, and good players will be good players, I get it. However, taking the time and effort to play your class and progress with it while being open to help/advice will make you a better player, I assure you.

AGREED!

EXP Parties teach you the following:

Mob move sets.

*The average player won't look up what they do or bother to learn anyways.
*The good player will always know the TP moves of a mob he is going into fight.

Enmity generation.

*The average player won't understand this based on simple party mechanics regardless.
*The good player will research enmity and know how to pace themselves on more difficult fights regardless of how they've leveled the job.

Basics.

*If you need a party to learn this ***, then lol. That's all there is to it.

Now lets go a step further to realize that if you have the potential to level a job to level cap in a much easier fashion then you have already been through a party. You should already understand everything a party can teach you. I never leveled THF in EXP. Are you telling me I'm unable to figure out what sneak attack does? Or maybe that I won't be able to pull Dynamis or Salvage? That I am unable to keep collaborator consistently going on someone who should not have hate? Because I can figure those out through common sense.

Tl;dr

1) EXP Parties do not make a bad player good.
2) Summoner burns do not make a good player bad.

There are also the dumb *** who fly through their EXP Parties without a second thought as to what the *** they're doing. So take the time to consider that.