DNC Stuff =D

Again, why the *** are you using Seigan if a DNC is present? JA use slows you down and so does the loss of Hasso, which is very significant at the level of haste you're at in merits - especially with a DNC. By all means pop TE, but Seigan in a meripo? Not unless things are dire.

@ thornyy: lmao really? its not THAT hard to put it up for a few seconds. There have been so many times i have just swapped it up for a few seconds, dodged a pecking flurry, and soon as hate goes off me from that i just flip up hasso again

by not taking the damage from their tp moves it allows the healers to focus more on debuffing and dancers to focus on sambas and other stuff


somehow that screams common sense to me

Copypaste from another thread:

Your sample RDM has stone mufflers, stone gorget, poison tasters cape, morrigan's robe, duelist's chapeau. They composure stoneskin, haste, refresh, regen and idle in orochi nodowa. During most convert cycles(8 min 20 secs, full merits of course), regen will be down for 225 seconds and up for 275 seconds. In some cases, it'll be down at start/end and you'll lose a bit of hp, but can overlook this as it favors running out of mp not sustaining it. This amounts to 459 hp. Regen trait and orochi nodowa will get you an additional 334, for 793 total. Now, assuming your perfect RDM has a 1200 convert, you'll need to cure4 yourself once, for 88 mp. This makes the cost of a convert cycle 88 mp, keeping composure cycle seperate. Each composure will use up 40 mp for haste, 40 for refresh, 29 for stoneskin, and 15 for regen. This is 124 mp per 7.5 minutes, or 16.5 mp per minute used. 88 / 8 1/3 = 10.5 mp per minute used. Self-sustainment costs 27 mp per minute. Your DD will require 3 hastes, at 120 mp per 3 minutes. This amounts to 40 mp per minute. Total cost: 67 mp per minute. At 250 exp per kill, 40k/hr is 160 monsters, or a kill every 22.5 seconds. This amounts to 120 mp per minute in dia. Stoneskin -should- cover poison potions as well as reflected dias when recast every 7:30 with gorget/mufflers, though it'll be close. Total cost: 187 mp per minute.

Convert will be 1200 mp every 8:20, which gives you 138 mp per minute. 12/tick with ballads and evokers is 240 mp per minute, grand total: 378 mp per minute regained and 187 spent on static spells. 191 mp per minute to spend on cures.

Assuming each colibri gets 4 hits in, as they have a 6 second delay with elegy and no delay on first swing(~180 damage each) and every 6th colibri gets a pecking flurry(600), you're looking at 820 damage per colibri or 2186 damage per minute to heal with your remaining 191 mp. You can't even make half of that, so it's safe to say that your DD are going to need to seigan, even with all of this perfection. If you're going to mention resting, a dia every 22.5 seconds limits you to one click at a time if you do it immediately after dia(first click is 20 seconds) and requires that you don't have to cast any spells in between. Realistically, this will not amount to anything over time, and you'll also need to cast erase. Wivre and Mamool will do more damage.

I don't give a *** how good your healer is, you're not keeping up with fulltime hasso while diaing every mob.

Swapping to seigan costs you a weaponskill about every 20 seconds. Real DD will drastically outdamage DNC WS for WS, so you're just making an idiot out of yourself acting as if your damage is worth making someone seigan.

I sense much anger in this one. lol

Anyways, I didn't say a DNC wont need to heal at all, but with a good healer, they wont be as pressed to used their TP for healing and will have chances to use their TP for WSing more often with a good healer.

Yes, that's true. However, as soon as you start arguing for WSing at the cost of DD's seigan or RDM foregoing dia any point you may have goes out the window. DNC should own a WS set, and should save steps so they can WS and immediately RF to continue healing, but they should never do so at the cost of real melee's damage.

Well, seems we are at an understanding with that at least.

my point wasnt really to third eye + seigan, more like, sams and /sams can still third eye without seigan up and still save some damage from being dealt to them.

Besides the fact that Thorny's proving everything I have to say with math, I have a few questions.

@Dawn: "by not taking the damage from their tp moves it allows the healers to focus more on debuffing and dancers to focus on sambas and other stuff"

... Sambas and other stuff. I don't really understand, I can Step at timer, Samba at timer, RF at timer and keep my party alive even when they're dying super fast and putting me in the red TP wise. I don't really get why we need to focus on 'other stuff' when we can handle everything at once just fine.

idkbro, you die too fast for me to WS ever. :<

all this seigan talk is assuming that the samurai isnt /nin anyways

which means they would be able to fulltime hasso while utilizing utsusemi

Should never /NIN on SAM in merit parties >_>

SAM... /NIN... merits

huh?

Suggesting /nin is even worse than suggesting seigan.

Out.

/facepalm

idk if its just me, personally i dont like it, but when i do merit i frequently get asked to sam/nin

><

Every sam subs nin on shiva

Well you said you meritted with domaru SAMs so.... :x

I thought Domaru was good for 6 hit if you dont have usu body or feet?!

im not gonna lie, its been a good long while since i had a "good" merit party

Questionable people ask for questionable subs. :x

If your gear isn't rock solid in all other slots, you can't TP in Domaru with polearm at birds and cap accuracy (edit: I'm assuming sushi here). That said, you should have a 5-hit... since you said 6 hit I assume you mean GKT, in which case I'm wondering why you're using GKT on lolbri :x

On the topic of DNC, has anyone tested out Conserve TP on DNC JA's yet? Wiki's information was pretty limited. Thanks for any input

Yeah... sometimes I forget about polearm with merits, lol.

i forgot where i read it, possibly here on ffxiah.com on the Aesir Ear Pendant comments, but i remember reading that it didn't work on DNC ja's

Thonry and I sub nin on sam all day!


Thorny, don't be afraid to represent!

is your avatar blowing us a kiss? lol XD

Asura.Poupee

Me and her like to share avatars

It Don't work.. i have had it since Odin came out and never seen it proc ; ;