DNC Stuff =D

I dunno, seems like, as with many people that have played this game before toau, they don't really get the idea of what a hybrid job is and still want to make jobs define a specific role.

I mean, if you want to play it that way, cool, but I wouldn't put people down who want to try and push a job to its limits.

I know well what a hybrid job is. Dnc of course, does some damage, since they do have to poke ***for TP, of course. But this doesn't make them a competent DD, and they aren't. If dnc didn't have haste samba, I doubt I'd invite one for anything but duo.

I like DNC and SCH because I can adapt to the situation and do many different things when it's needed.

Dnc shouldn't ever solely be a dd, but that doesnt mean it can't do some damage. the only real problem dancer has is that there are like maybe 3 pieces it can use that effectively enhance damage. But with proper use of building flourish its not hard to get capped pdif for weapon skills on vt mobs.

But unless they arent doing any support whatsoever they will definitely parse lower than the actual dedicated DDs because their tp is divided between weaponskills and buffs/debuffs.

Dnc as a job is busy as hell if you play it right... and because of that it doesn't give alot of time for people to think about different ways to do things while they play it and they can easily get trapped in an inefficient pattern of playing.

Building flourish shares a timer with reverse flourish which sucks balls if you need your reverse to get tp to ws... but it also lasts for a minute or until you use it and only has a 10 second recast. So its very easy to pop building flourish, ten seconds later pop reverse and have tp for ws... if you're on the ball you can also toss a step before you ws and be halfway to another reverse flourish to replenish your tp.

Granted I won't ever hit as hard as most dedicated DD... but who the hell cares? It doesnt matter who's at the top of the parse, all that matters is the exp per hour. 3 dds going nuts and one support job that can occasionally toss a 1.2k DE out there can only be a good thing...

Unless of course that support job isn't doing any support to do it...

Sure, but my point is generally if your DDs are doing it right you won't have time to WS, unless it's say Dynamis, but even then I'd never risk popping a building flourish, ***can turn ugly really fast regardless. Campaign? Sure yeah whatever, it's campaign. Real stuff no thanks.

I almost never use building flourish.

i wish i can afford a black tath so i can get like u D:
ive merited with a hot dnc who was breaking 1k ws with the mythic ws.
i think thats high dmg for a support job but its up to u
and what u see as high dmg

Spike damage means nothing, especially when getting a 25% damage bonus due to piercing. I can hit 1k+ on birds w/ all my jobs and there's still an obvious gap in them. For example, my pup can break 1k easy, is it going to match to my polearm sam? definitely not.

WS frequency and DoT also play a role in this, not just the number of WS itself.

Any dancers DE's can do 1k+ sometimes, normally its around 650 average on birds.

Risk popping a building flourish?

There isn't really that much of a risk to it if, given the situation, it's ok to do a weaponskill.

I don't just fire off weapon skills whenever I feel like it and I certainly wouldn't condone anyone else do it on dnc either... but if the situation permits... why not take advantage of a great tool?

Granted most of what I use dnc for is duoing but building flourish can easily add 3-400 damage to a weapon skill. Hell it adds more damage than a wild flourish unless you are fighting ep-dc junk... and you can use it in conjunction if you really want to.

If I'm doing something "serious" though... I'm most likely not playing dnc.

Especially if you aren't using building flourish... =P

I play mainheal for merits, Einharjar and Dynamis. Merits the DDs are /DD and play aggressively. I simply do not have the time or TP to DD. Einherjar same deal. Dynamis I can sometimes get away with it, but our Taru DDs get in a world of hurt very quickly... building flourish is a terrible idea.

The tp gained from reverse flourish is more damage than building flourish imo.

Most likely. I only ever use building flourish to killshot campaign mobs... lol. <_<

Yeah, spike damage doesn't mean much in how you parse, but again, I don't care how I parse on dnc, I care about the exp per hour. If every few mobs I can kill a bird without one of the primary DD's wasting their tp then the next mob dies that much faster. It doesn't matter if at the end of the party I only did 10% of the damage because, as you pointed out, I'm not there to DD.

Going back to the comparison to Cor doing dd, if the cor isn't pulling, what else are they gonna do between rolls? Sit with their thumb up their ***? No, they're gonna hit the mob.

If I don't need my tp to keep someone alive then why not use it? No I won't be breaking any damage barriers or putting the actual DD to shame but I can reliably do 800 damage to birds in merit parties, that's enough to kill a mob that is too low for the real dd to want to waste tp on and if I can do it consistently and reliably then it only helps.

I'm not saying dnc should try and ws whenever they have tp, or that they should try to outparse everyone else...

Merit parties aren't a one man show, it doesn't matter who parses the most damage, what matters is how well the group works as a whole, and if the group works well enough that I can occasionally toss a ws, why shouldn't I?

Not if you use it efficiently.

As I said, you can keep a building flourish up for up to a full minute before it wears off. And you don't have to use 3 finishing moves to use building flourish (In fact, you probably never should.)

I usually use building flourish on every other weapon skill if I am fighting something where I can ws often, because thats how it best lines up with how I gain tp.

Granted if you are soloing something and you already have it to the point where it is Low defense and Low evasion, no, Building flourish is not going to add much damage. But if the mob is high defense or doesnt have a defense comparison listed building flourish is a huge shift in your pdif, and the damage you gain from it easily makes up for the tp lost to using 2 finishing moves on it...

And as I mentioned, if you are on the ball and have the tp for it you can toss another step before you ws and essentially gain the FMs back, becuase for dancing edge any tp you have over 100% is wasted anyway.

If I was main healing anything I probably would never be using weapon skills.

One of the main things I do on dnc is duo romaeve water with a friend, I keep tp and stun ga spells and keep us both alive, my friend tanks and dd's on monk.

As for merit parties I'm guessing the setup where you main heal would be something along the lines of brd brd dnc dd dd dd? If you have a rdm who has full dia3 merits and isnt a total retard a rdm can benefit a dnc party more than the second bard would. Dia3/haste with minuet/march is better than double min and double march, and then the rdm can help cure as well.

P.S. Sorry for three consecutive posts... keep scrolling back and seeing responses I've missed.

You're doing it wrong

Needs more corsair, but basically that with either lacking one DD + Haster, or just outside haster.

Double march caps somewhere in the vicinity of 20% haste unless its disco'd.

Haste+victory march at cap gives just under 27% haste.

Minuet3 caps at 48 atk for most dd's thats in the range of 10-12% of their base atk. Dia3 lowers the mobs defense by 20% which effectively alters your pdif by about 25%.

So 2 bards is 7% less haste and 15% less atk than a bard and a rdm.


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Eh, outside hasting is a different thing entirely... Not everyone has the option... and if you wanted to get into semantics the outside haster could feasibly cure as well.

Who said anything about two bards? I was talking about your choice of buffs. Again, you're doing it wrong, unless you mean to tell me that minuet IV is going to beat a second march, especially when you have haste samba in your party.

You don't post here much, do you?

Well then yes, Double march plus haste plus dia3 is still going to be better than adding the second bard.

If one of the bards was subbing white mage and casting dia2 every mob you'd be getting closer but it still wouldn't totally surpass it.


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Not a whole lot, no. I've been playing this game for almost 7 years, the nature of how its played has shifted greatly, some of the shifts are good, some are merely semantics.

There is a friend of mine in my LS who leveled warrior to 75 recently, it was his second 75 job and he read the forums religiously taking all of the knowledge gleaned therein to heart the result is that his warrior is different from mine in several key points.

Those differences don't stop us from parsing exactly the same in merit parties.

GUYS, GUYS, CHAOS ROLL AND CORSAIRS ROLL

Two BRDs is if you're desperate.

Edit: Having a RDM or something inside the party is nice anyway. Having an extra erase/dia is nice... or can just have your COR sub DNC I suppose.

I never said anything about two bards. Are you even reading my posts? I quoted your buffs, not your party set up when I said you were doing it wrong.

BUT CHAOS ROLL FAILS I USE GEKKO AND THE ATTACK DOESNT HELP. GIVE ME DA ROLL!

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF GO MNK TO MERITS NUB

I am reading your post. I acknowledge what you said, Double march is better than min/march. but 4 years ago no one would have believed that and I merit like once every 3 months right now and old habits die hard.

As for comparisons of brd brd; brd rdm; brd cor or rdm cor, rdm > brd every time, until you add that outside haste with a bard (or a cor!?) who can cast dia2.

And yes... if I was on sam, using a GK I'd definitely want DA roll over chaos roll.

Sorry, I'm really enjoying the debate... I tend to get a little intense.

I go polearm sam rly unless I need to buffer something else, but I have a build I'm putting together that'll top full usu (w/ focus up), so I'll be looking to play around w/ that.

Was a one sided debate rly. Well idk if anyone else was arguing w/ you but I'm positive neither Ninian or myself was advocating pt'ing w/o a proper haster.

As for the GKT thing, has no place at bird camp, was being sarcastic, lol, hence the all caps.