Nyame Path C....

Your point for rephrasing how vertical it is? My point was I don't like vertical progression system, I prefer horizontal ones.

And I don't need you to remind me this is vertical progression system over and over again, lol.

It wasn't like that before. Everyone can do Omen/dyna D/ambu +2 in any order as they finish a job. And I prefer a system like this

It doesn't work like this in Odyssey, if you want to play DD, you do v5 Odyssey for R15, then r20, then r25, or you are forced to play support if your group only do v20 runs as other DD takes the spot.

I don't need you to remind me how Odyssey works. I was simply saying my opinion that I dislike such system. Why can't I even do that?



You would have a point about vertical progression if "play support" isn't an option in FFXI.

Unfortunately no. Vertical progression system doesn't work well in FFXI because people would just play support in v20s and get their ***done.

If FFXI is a game that you can't play support to skip vertical progression system then this system would probably work better.



Where did you read that I have trouble breaking into content? I said I have trouble bring DD to our LS v20 runs because my Nyame isn't done. So I have to play support.

It wasn't a problem in omen/dyna D/ambu era but it is now. All because of vertical progression system.

Also you are ridiculous to tell me ditch my friend and LS that I played with for 5+ years to join random v1 groups climbing progression ladder so I can do progression "properly". Why would I even do that?

It's simply a vertical progression problem that can be easily fixed with alternative path that isn't Odyssey. And you people just tried too hard to defend for it lol. God forbid myself wanting an alternative path for progression.

Why would you think empy gear of similar strength will have different "progression" of clearing content for it? Especially that it comes after Odyssey. You will face the same thing probably, people will want R25 Odyssey people ideally to clear new event that's coming with empy gear.

And for +3 empy that comes later, this event will be probably much harder than v15 Odyssey, so not sure how you plan to pug it, so you have gear to clear V20 :)

...Also, v15 and even v20 are all very PUGable. Consistently? No, maybe not — PUGs being variable and all — but it's totally doable.


TBH I see a fair amount of v15 PUGs climbing on Asura lately.

If empy +2 is soloable (I think SE said it is?) And at least 1-2 slots has same power as Nyame r15-r20, then people with only empy +2 would be way more viable as a DD in Odyssey v15-v20 runs imo.

I would be pretty surprised if empy gear and difficulty is one tier above Odyssey. But hey FFXI is full of 14 players now, maybe SE will surprise me with even more vertical progression lol.


Of course it's "doable", if I have friends/LS mate sitting on DD spot OR if I do gear check to ensure PUG DD progression is high then it's not hard to win. Bumba has low coordination required tbh, and it's more about passing the DPS check or bust.

But doing so completely bypassed my intention to PUG, which is to create Odyssey opportunity for people without a group nor LS.

If I have to tell people "hey you need Odyssey progression to join my Odyssey v15-19 RP runs", I might as well only play with groups. I simply don't like progression working this way.

This is conflicted statement. If it's not vertical progression, then +2 empy being soloable shouldn't be even close as strong as R20+ Nyame. With horizontal progression it should be on par with lower tiers Nyame and only +3 that will be as hard to get as higher tiers of Nyame should be as strong. So you don't want vertical progression, but you want +2 empy which should be easy to get to beat or compete with latest bis and hard to obtain gear, which is like prime example of vertical progression. You need to be more consistent with what you want :)

If empy +2 has something like wsd +8-10 and something unique that doesn't exist on Nyame, it would be on par with Nyame r20 but both sets can co-exist as situational swaps.

That's the ideal horizontal progression in my eyes. Every gear is useful and competitive.

It is not conflicting statement unless you want to argue that's vertical progression too.

so thru all that what I get is being upset because a higher tier vengeance 'needs' the gear finished thru a lower tier in order to beat it.


Remind me again when this wasn't the case in FFXI outside of leeching?

Playing support/healer isn't leeching.

Stop pretending vertical progression is a good idea in FFXI lol. Maybe it works better in other mmo if support needs high gear score to participate too. Not in FFXI imo.

Yeah, and you wanted/needed gear from Omen on BRD and RDM to be useful in Dyna-D due to macc needs in that content.

You needed proper DT sets even on support to live thru AoE attacks in various content, where that -DT comes from easier content.

BLMs needed Su3 gear and/or amazing Reisenjima augments in order to successfully even doing low-tier Ongos.

The whole game is about vertical progression, but if you'd prefer to get caught up in the semantics of "vertical" vs "horizontal" by all means enjoy it while LFG instead of participating. Enjoy the spreadsheets and sims- we're gonna play.

What you described in bold isn't vertical progression. It's horizontal: more than 1 content enhances your character.

Ok Cele the mom, you won. Go play the game so you don't waste time on trying to change random internet opinions.

I'm still gonna tell SE that I prefer more than 1 progression path like pre-Odyssey FFXI because I enjoy FFXI that way.

It's my time, my money, my preference, and absolutely none of your business ty. :P

Again, you missed the point of my post. I'm not telling you should do it "properly" or whatever, I'm telling you that you don't need to hyperfocus on doing v15 or v20 clears just to augment your Nyame to be viable as a DD.

If the PUG you get is too weak for v15, just spam at a lower tier or cheese farm RP on v19 or v20. Whatever gear you think you may have needed to to farm RP won't matter at all.

Umm it's different from pre-ody FFXI and I prefer how old multi paths progression system works more than now?

These days if you post your opinions or preferences on FFXIAH.com, you got 10 people arguing and meme replies.

I hate apples and oranges. There, I said it. Bite me people :D



Or the better version: let's all get to do different endgame between Odyssey runs for gear progression so everybody get a chance to beat v15-v20 with an Odyssey group or without! :D

No no no. My post was pretty clear. To farm Odyssey SE made it super casual friendly. You only need to take mob to 94% to get all the bonus from amplifier. You can even do this solo on V19 and it's extremely easy with almost any setup in mediocre gear if you use SP buffs, so I don't understand what you are talking about in context of farming RP. Getting bis DD to kill NMs while trying to farm it is mostly for entertainment and some bonus points, so I'm asking again, what exactly is your problem with farming and needing anything for DD job for farming specifically, when you don't need anything above ambu as DD to farm even V20 bumba? (clearing is completely different topic)

I generally aim for a clear because very frequently I will get someone wanting a clear in pt. Sometimes I even got 3-4 people needing a clear in the same pt.

Also clear is more RP and it saves time too, since you don't have to sit there waiting for time out. So it makes more sense to aim for a clear for the benefit of everybody.

Ok now you talking nonsense for me. Farming RP is farming RP. You pug for farming not clear. You make things complicated for no reason. Don't make pugs for clear and your problem is solved. You can aim for doing as much damage or potential clear but make it clear it's not a run aiming for clear.

Ofc it's slightly less RP and takes more time, but you was compering this to VD ambuscade in the past and VD ambuscade trade off is exactly the same, it takes longer and you farm points slower in pug.

Amplifier made Odyssey one of the easiest casual friendly event in FFXI where even completely noob people can farm RP very efficiently after getting clear and you writing completely opposite thing is simply mind blowing. Once again you can farm RP even solo if time is a problem. I can guarantee you that going solo and waiting 15 min for time to end will still be much faster that making pug and kill everything or at least first NM

TLDR stop making mixed clear/farming pugs and only do farming if you need to farm and your problems are completely solved.

Think the only jobs that didnt gain all that much were pet jobs, hopefully that changes with that new aug line but so far as i know only bst ready moves/puppet ws' really got anything from that path and it was relatively minor compared to the other 3 paths, smn gained more from the all stats+ than the dmg+% since along with 0 atk these pieces have no bpd either

Mpaca's body/hands/feet were rather nice for PUP+maton DD, but it didn't solve the issue of Automatons being far behind players these days. And the necessity of Heyoka just to cap Pet: Haste in a Dual TP setup.

Can only hope Empyrean will finally replace Taeon and Heyoka gear to some extent.

Oh I meant nyame in particular there, though on the whole the buffs to pets are very weak compared to what players get, again no attack vs the standard 40~ minimum atk every set gets, no haste like you mentioned either.

Ah sorry, misunderstood. Yeah, I've personally only done Nyame Body/Legs for PUP to get Pet: DMG+%, but the boost is rather marginal and it's hard to fit them into existing sets without sacrificing other important stats (Haste, DT, STP, DA).

Hopefully the fourth augment slot will make Path D a lot more useful—assuming Nyame will even get those. It does hurt gimping my WSD sets in the body and leg slots for all of my other jobs, but since PUP itself no longer cares that much about WSD I prioritized.

At this point I'm fully expecting Empy+2-3 gear to make my Path D even more irrelevant, though, forcing me to reaugment those pieces. It would be a very typical thing for SE to do.

It isn't though, at least not that much. I've PUGed all of the omen bosses and some ambu, these content DPS check wasn't as harsh as Odyssey v15-v20s.

The difference between ambu VD PUG and LS run was maybe 2 min v.s 5?

You don't lose points in a mediocre VD pt, you only kill a bit slower, that's all. The DPS/gear check in ambu VD is extremely low. Ody v15+ is 100% more harsh on dps check.

When it comes to PUG friendly content I'd say ambu VD > Omen > Odyssey v15-v20s. And my content preference pretty much all ranked the same way: I prefer content that everyone can join and participate.



I do both because people said they need clear? Not sure what's wrong with that, nor if that's even hard to comprehend.




Then you completely missed the entire point of me PUGing.

The entire reason of me PUGing Odyssey is because people in PUG community without LS/groups is struggling for clears. If I do what you said, then this problem isn't solved. It becomes a problem that I discribed atm: Odyssey separates community into people with a group and without, and people without a group has no way to get close without an alternative path for gear progression.

Your suggestion isn't solving what I dislike about it, because it's not a problem about my personal RP need.


Maybe SE wanted this to be a casual friendly content, I don't know about that.

From social perspective, it doesn't seem casual friendly to me. When people in the pt complaint about less segs/RP per run due to the lack of DPS, and pt lead starts filtering out members because of it, in the end it's extremely exclusive imo.

I hate that about it too even though I have a static, I see it more as a reason for people to start making party, but most people wont and will never get the gear, because they are use to not making party already.

Entry point for farming RP is super low, while entry point for clearing is high and that's what is wrong with your approach. Farming can be relaxing without any pressure, while clearing is the opposite. Compering Ambuscade to clearing Odyssey is completely wrong. Farming RP on the other hand can be compered to Ambuscade. It's like farming RP in dynamisD and clearing wave 3 or farming cards in Omen and clearing bosses in Omen and I'm talking when those events were new, not old and power creeped. For clearing Omen bosses you needed bis players too. Same for dynamisD on start but farming RP or cards was possible for less optimal setups.

What you are trying to setup in Odyssey is dynamisD D farming + wave3 clear in early dynamisD and you cry about it being hard and you cry about people wanting DD jobs with relic +3 and R15 REMAs as DD.

You either setup clear or farming in Odyssey. If you try to mix this, that's your own fault to pressure yourself and other people just wanting farm.

Generally clear run is different anyway, because you want to spam one NM until you win, while farming is doing one NM with amplifier and 2 more NMs to keep bonus for next Amplifier, so even for that reason it's not good to mix those attempts. For clear you might also try bringing some NMs to 75% with B setup and start the fight with some advantage with A setup. When you farm you also usually do V19, not V20 and not having an add makes things much easier and faster.

Also stop focusing on Bumba so much while talking about Odyssey in general or just say it's only about Bumba, because in every other A3 NM difference in time of great group clearing NM and mediocre pug timing out to get RP from amplifier is very low, since most A3 NMs are killed with 30s-6min remaining, so usually pug is only 3-60% slower.

TLDR clears for new end game events were always hard and farming was always easier. Go back in time and try to make pugs for clearing Omen and dynamisD or even Abyssea, Vagary, Delve, Voidwatch, Escha and Reisenjima etc. when those events were new and say how well it went for you.

This still goes on?

I PUGed all omen bosses in 2017, so I can tell you this: no you didn't need BiS player back in 2017 to clear Omen. I have never shout for "BiS DDs" for any omen pt that I made in 2017.

Omen, at least post alliance update, was 90% pt coordination and dps check was extremely low. When you can bring 18 pt members to a content balanced for 6 man, you deal with timeout problem less.


Comparing Odyssey v15-v20 with dyna D wave 3 is kinda silly, because you don't need to beat w3 for relic +3 upgrade.

You can unlock +3 by beating mid-boss. And mid-boss is easily PUG-able. Then you can upgrade your gear by paying for mats, with JSE +3 gears you can participate any endgame. In dyna D era, You aren't blocked from participating in endgame only because you don't have a group for w3 clears.

It's not like now, that bumba strategy demands strong SB builds which demands high rank Nyame. Which means in a game like FFXI that isn't build around vertical progression, everyone would just play support for v15/v20 groups and skip low tier Odyssey, leaving non-support players have no one to pt with in lower level vengeance.

You post pages and pages of argument, but none of your solution ever address this problem. You just keep telling me I'm "doing it wrong". If wanting to play with more people or make progression in wider variety of content in FFXI is "doing it wrong" then idk what to tell you.


If FFXI has 3 other relevant endgame content that isn't Odyssey,or if Nyame set is less "meta" with different WS involved in endgame, like 2018 era, then maybe I'd focus on bumba less by doing something else in game /shrug.



Out of all of the content that you listed above:

Vagary, VW, Escha T1-T3, Delve post nerf, Omen post alliance update was easily PUG-able. (Group 1)

Escha T4 helm, dyna w3(or maybe w2) right after release, Delve right after release, 6 man version omen arguably need a group of serious players. (Group 2)

Except in 2018, people who only participated in group 1 can still build a character good enough for group 2 because group 1 offers meaningful reward/"BiS" gears like escha sets, reforged JSE, Ou drops, ambu +2 etc.

THAT is the problem. I never ask SE nerf the difficulty of the hardest content.

I only said people without a group should have the options to build their character in different easier content, like being able to farm JSE in dyna w1/Omen/ambu in PUG as they look for an aeonic/dyna w3 groups years ago.

And this easy content option is now replaced by Odyssey v5 or something, which people choose to skip by playing support. Nor v5 offers reward as meaningful as JSE from Omen/dyna D in 2018.

If you still fail to comprehend why some people prefer the old horizontal way, then I have no interest to post 10 more pages of argument to convince you, since neither of us will change our opinion anyways.

You do you. You can keep liking Odyssey being the way it is, but god forbid I dislike it and want something different. Nor I feel like wasting my time arguing for 10 pages with someone over personl preferences.

I'm not trying to change your mind, you are simply wrong tho :) Bumba v15 is one of the easiest Odyssey NM to clear at v15 above Atonement 3. Arguably there are harder Atonement 2 NMs. It's an easy Zerg that requires no rema or even bis gear on DD. Bis players clears it under 2 min and you have like 4 before feathers pop. You can take full time R0 WAR, full time Malignance COR, BRD tping in R0 nyame and WSing in WSD+R0 nyame, DRG tping with R0 nyame and WSing in WSD and gleti and WHM that's knows what he is doing and you can clear it without problem. Bumba V20 is whole other story, but V15 has plenty of buffer to work with. Just play it safe with DT/MEVA and drop DPS because you should be fine anyway. Btw JP pugs most of Odyssey and they puged v15 Bumba too.

Holy ***Afainia, take a break, grab a drink, and call your therapist, your partner, and your Dad. Make an Appointment, ask for a ride, then wish a Happy Father's Day, and JESUS get off your entitled horse!

The game changed while you were gone. OH NOES! adjust and move forward or find a different game. You're sounding very entitled, and its not a very good look for a player as good as you who has always earned it.

entitled? Lol don't be silly. Every customer has right to express opinion on their preference when it comes to game direction.

I wrote dozens of game reviews on steam talking what I like and dislike about a game that I purchased all the time, I post game reviews in blog and gave every game a "score" too. I criticize or praise every game that I play, it's not even a FFXI thing.

Having an opinion about video games makes me "entitled"?? God forbid myself having a preference on what I like or dislike and talk about it on a public forum.

And I think the only person who needs a "therapy" over internet opinion on a *** video game is people who pissed off from reading it.

YOU should go take a break and go outside, my friend. Let other people dislike whatever they want please.


Or post on public forums so SE community rep who reads forums in the community would report it, which helps SE make their own decisions in the future.



Of course it doesn't. It's a naeg Zerg using Nyame set lol. What a bad example Baniak!