The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||

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The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-27 16:18:12  
endxen said: »
Tiiimbeeeer is a non-problem with kiting it.

This isn't actually the point. Nobody is concerned with "beating" the boss per se. It's really about the mechanics and learning it. V5 is nothing for RP, you really want to figure out what is the trigger so you can build reasonable runs around that strategy on the highest Veng possible. Otherwise, good luck doing 200+ V5 runs to cap a piece.
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 Bismarck.Ringoko
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By Bismarck.Ringoko 2021-02-27 16:25:37  
endxen said: »
You guys are making this more complicated than it really is. Tiiimbeeeer is a non-problem with kiting it. We just did Veng+5 with the strat I've said above with zero issues. 3/3 now.

Repeated success on Veng10+?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-27 16:27:12  
So you have killed Mboze 3 times for a total of 204 RP (Rank 3)? V10 will triple that RP earned, so you are effectively wasting segments if you can't do it higher. But that's not even the point, not sure why you plug that in like it was a flex?

People ARE killing it. And people are talking about how to mitigate the damage of Tiiimbeeer. Both can be done at the same time, this isn't a bar that is preventing everyone from killing it, but people would still like to know what causes it. Finding a workaround is cool, but think big picture. Can such a strategy reasonably be done on V10/v15?

Maybe you can include some context into your Mboze runs. How long are the fights? Can you post a video?
 
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-02-27 16:55:48  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Maybe Tiiimbeeer damage is related to how many buffs it absorbs with Root of the Problem
This wouldn't explain why people hit by the same move are receiving very different damage though, I think?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-27 16:59:59  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Maybe Tiiimbeeer damage is related to how many buffs it absorbs with Root of the Problem
This wouldn't explain why people hit by the same move are receiving very different damage though, I think?

It wouldn't, not unless it deals more damage to the person whom it absorbed buffs from. In the video with Martel and from his logs, he always seemed to take the most damage than others around him except one other time? I am just trying to connect the source of the damage to something that nobody has tried. And I was using the JP wiki reference as a possible clue. It may or may not be true, until someone tries it. I did watch a JP video of Mboze where it used Tiiimbeeer and it wiped the group, but I did not see Root of the Problem, but the fight was really laggy so maybe it just didn't show in the log and he really did use it.

At the very least, getting minuets and such absorbed (probably SV'd) probably has a lot to do with why the damage is so high for Tiiimbeeer. It doesn't ever hit that high even for Yumcax or Wopket (idr Yakshi), but those are different level and probably mechanics.
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By zixxer 2021-02-27 17:58:28  
Best thing for Mboze is WHM, BRD, IGEO, SAMX3.

Each sam vokes takes turns one at a time doing fudo spam. When that sam dies, bring in the next sam to be ready to voke.

Rinse and repeat till max RP.
 
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By Guyford 2021-02-27 18:15:03  
I've been assuming timber doesn't doom cause we've all been getting 1 shotted by it, but it probably does still do doom. This just occurred to me and makes me hate this tree even more.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2021-02-27 18:18:01  
endxen said: »
zixxer said: »
Best thing for Mboze is WHM, BRD, IGEO, SAMX3.

Each sam vokes takes turns one at a time doing fudo spam. When that sam dies, bring in the next sam to be ready to voke.

Rinse and repeat till max RP.

Can only use 1 sam and no sub job.

Not for nothing but it's an insignificant detail, interchange SAM for DD, concept remains identical.

Just throwing corpses till you win.

Very far from "the best thing" though.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-02-27 23:50:06  
So, we did another V15 Ngai(Shark) attempt.
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Well, unless they meant WS once for red proc, then WS>WS really fast for blue? That's something we did not try.
And this is actually worked. <,<

I started by Red procing on PLD with Atonement, and then a few seconds after proc, Ejiin had 3 of his characters WS rapidly. I didn't catch whether it was 2 WS or 3 that actually proc'd. But we did get blue proc. Ejiin plans to review the footage and upload a video later.

With Procs and fetter *** out of the way, the rest of the fight was just dealing with Hate resets. Which, well, still sucks. But it's mostly doable with low TP feed, and some JA resets from the cor.

I think that Scherzo and Dirge are a must to help address the hate reset issues, and you know, melees not dying. The MNK actually survived a Protolithic Puncture(the hate reset) this time, which helped a lot.

Finished the fight with a bit over 2 minutes left.
 Asura.Nuance
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By Asura.Nuance 2021-02-28 00:23:41  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
So, we did another V15 Ngai(Shark) attempt.
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Well, unless they meant WS once for red proc, then WS>WS really fast for blue? That's something we did not try.
And this is actually worked. <,<

I started by Red procing on PLD with Atonement, and then a few seconds after proc, Ejiin had 3 of his characters WS rapidly. I didn't catch whether it was 2 WS or 3 that actually proc'd. But we did get blue proc. Ejiin plans to review the footage and upload a video later.

With Procs and fetter *** out of the way, the rest of the fight was just dealing with Hate resets. Which, well, still sucks. But it's mostly doable with low TP feed, and some JA resets from the cor.

I think that Scherzo and Dirge are a must to help address the hate reset issues, and you know, melees not dying. The MNK actually survived a Protolithic Puncture(the hate reset) this time, which helped a lot.

Finished the fight with a bit over 2 minutes left.

We just did the same on V5 and V10,

Atonement for red!! followed by MNK and COR WS at the same time caused a blu!!


Same thing on V15 but he got verve up a second time and we could not proc blu!! again in the same manner. We're under the impression at this time it may require more WS than we could muster on an additional use of verve.
 Siren.Codegen
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By Siren.Codegen 2021-02-28 03:09:38  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Here are the logged instances of Tiiimbeer usage that I have seen.

I can't state the conditions for each in detail as you can only tell so much from the logs.

I think I had around 2,800~ HP on Martel. It's normally 3k, but subjob lock screws with things.

I'm not sure that target DT or HP(max or current?) are valid damage modifiers. I've had cases where the luopan took more damage than me and others were it took like 3k less. /shrug.

[20:07:37]Mboze readies Tiiimbeeer.
[20:07:37]Mboze uses Tiiimbeeer. Luopan takes 5660 points of damage.
[20:07:37]Martel takes 8444 points of damage.
[20:07:37]Mboze destroys Luopan.
[20:07:37]Martel was defeated by Mboze.

[20:18:36]Mboze readies Tiiimbeeer.
[20:18:36]Mboze uses Tiiimbeeer. Martel takes 4728 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Rejiin takes 3185 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Irritant takes 2798 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Shred takes 3056 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Ashraya takes 2880 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Luopan takes 0 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Martel was defeated by Mboze.
[20:18:36]Rejiin was defeated by Mboze.
[20:18:36]Irritant was defeated by Mboze.
[20:18:36]Shred was defeated by Mboze.
[20:18:36]Ashraya was defeated by Mboze.

[20:44:05]Mboze readies Tiiimbeeer.
[20:44:05]Martel's Fealty effect wears off.
[20:44:05]Mboze uses Tiiimbeeer. Martel takes 4740 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Rejiin takes 3566 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Irritant takes 2798 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Ashraya takes 2880 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Shred takes 3056 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Luopan takes 0 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Martel was defeated by Mboze.
[20:44:05]Rejiin was defeated by Mboze.
[20:44:05]Irritant was defeated by Mboze.
[20:44:05]Ashraya was defeated by Mboze.
[20:44:05]Shred was defeated by Mboze.

[20:49:05]Mboze readies Tiiimbeeer.
[20:49:05]Mboze uses Tiiimbeeer. Martel takes 6102 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Rejiin takes 3576 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Irritant takes 1198 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Shred takes 3056 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Ashraya takes 1278 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Luopan takes 0 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Martel was defeated by Mboze.
[20:49:05]Rejiin was defeated by Mboze.
[20:49:06]Irritant was defeated by Mboze.
[20:49:06]Shred was defeated by Mboze.
[20:49:06]Ashraya was defeated by Mboze.

[20:16:32]Mboze readies Tiiimbeeer.
[20:16:32]Martel's Stoneskin effect wears off.
[20:16:33]Mboze uses Tiiimbeeer. Rejiin takes 5697 points of damage.
[20:16:33]Martel takes 7181 points of damage.
[20:16:33]Luopan takes 7458 points of damage.
[20:16:33]Irritant takes 4880 points of damage.
[20:16:33]Rejiin was defeated by Mboze.
[20:16:33]Martel was defeated by Mboze.
[20:16:33]Mboze destroys Luopan.
[20:16:33]Irritant was defeated by Mboze.
Is the difference with 0 dmg or high damage on luopan just from dematerialize or is there some hint there? Also if the luopans get hit by that much damage occasionally that can't be about buffs absorbed from that player, as luopan would have none to absorb. Also in 1 case PLD and luopan take about the same damage, in another the PLD takes almost twice as much, there might be another clue there.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-28 04:42:58  
At this point I think its not a matter of surviving Tiiimbeeer, but its probably some mechanic that prevent using it. Maybe you need to deal wind damage?
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-02-28 07:18:23  
Siren.Codegen said: »
Is the difference with 0 dmg or high damage on luopan just from dematerialize or is there some hint there? Also if the luopans get hit by that much damage occasionally that can't be about buffs absorbed from that player, as luopan would have none to absorb. Also in 1 case PLD and luopan take about the same damage, in another the PLD takes almost twice as much, there might be another clue there.
The 0 dmg on luopan is also what happens when the same AoE kills the Goomancer(lol, that typo.) Geomancer first.
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-02-28 10:32:49  
The video of our Blue proc'd V15 shark run is up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpLfgYOEzqw

EDIT:
A note on Shellcrusher. I started out with a staff, got TP via tactician's in the lobby(it wipes buffs but not TP when you enter) Then opened the fight with a 3k TP Shellcrusher for the def down. Since the MNK doesn't have Staff ready yet.

Anyway, while I hit him in a full MACC WS set(+308 MACC), with wind threnody up, I never got a def down wears off message. Max duration should be 9 minutes unresisted, and the time from shell crusher to dead mob was 9:59. So it doesn't look like the def- effect actually landed.
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-02-28 11:27:56  
Papesse reported Tidal Roar having "No Effect" on several of the NMs despite no other attack down being on them. That would imply that at least some NMs (and possibly all of them) have an innate active Attack Bonus buff, which means they could also have an innate Defense Bonus buff. It could be something true for all of them, or just something at certain V levels.

If true, this would not only prevent all straight Attack/Defense Down debuffs from landing, but would also reduce the effectiveness of other attack/defense debuffs (Wilt, Frailty, Bio, Dia).

Someone in one of my groups mentioned Angon not making a noticeable difference at all on V15 Procne, which if there was no defense boost shenanigans, should have been a ~45% damage increase going from -20% to -45% defense, which lends support to this possibility.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-28 12:33:46  
Sounds like a job for the corrosive ooze test. The guaranteed additional effect would prove its not just a magic accuracy issue and they all have the buff that can't be overwritten.

That is kind of annoying though (if true). Geomancy resist, immune to defense/attack down, and resistant to certain elements and weapon types. Break line of WS, useless. Infernal scythe, useless. Angon, useless. Ageha, useless. A lot of them heavily resist magic damage also, so that hinders additional skillchain damage as well. Bard and Corsair basically required for any melee strategies on higher vengeance levels. Dancer steps should still work
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By eeternal 2021-02-28 13:34:10  
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That latency and instant actions ; ;
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-02-28 13:41:15  
We still don't have concrete confirmation on geomancy resist, or how much of a reduction there is if there is one. If the enemies have innate attack/defense bonuses, that would create an illusion of wilt/frailty being weaker.
 Fenrir.Aladeus
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By Fenrir.Aladeus 2021-02-28 14:29:14  
i watched an lsmate stream the shark fight on starting level, and he couldnt land any debuffs on it. he's like bis everything on rdm. idk if anyone said that already, but i figured i would pretend to be useful.
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By Odin.Senaki 2021-02-28 17:58:06  
Perhaps this was asked already, but has anyone tried tanking Mboze with a Pup to avoid Timber?

*Or at least, make it less problematic.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2021-02-28 18:01:05  
Automaton still dies, but you deus ex a new one, repeat till win.
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By zixxer 2021-02-28 18:49:46  
Odin.Senaki said: »
Perhaps this was asked already, but has anyone tried tanking Mboze with a Pup to avoid Timber?

*Or at least, make it less problematic.

My setup the other night was puptank (I couldn't find a regular tank), cor, brd, war, sam, and whm. It was dead in 30 seconds.

War was spamming chango upheaval.
Cor rolls were sam/chaos then spammed SB (he died, I don't think he had malignance, I didn't check)
Brd spammed SB.
Sam yaegasumi then spammed Fudo.
Whm barstonra, barpara, asylum, sacro, and spammed curaga non stop.
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By Littleflame 2021-02-28 18:53:12  
Fenrir.Aladeus said: »
i watched an lsmate stream the shark fight on starting level, and he couldnt land any debuffs on it. he's like bis everything on rdm. idk if anyone said that already, but i figured i would pretend to be useful.

Paralyze Slow and Silence all land with 2 or 3 immunobreaks in full potency gear with saboteur on the base T3s. Frazzle and Distract seem floored or close too it and addle is unreliable even in max MACC gear with R15 Murglies food and even a Macc roll, no AM though. Impact also only lasted around 10secs.

However every boss has a specific elemental weakness, for example the bird is weak to stone and slow didn't require any immunobreaks.
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By Creecreelo 2021-02-28 21:13:43  
eeternal said: »
YouTube Video Placeholder

YouTube Video Placeholder

That latency and instant actions ; ;

Loved the use of Yoichi Rng in the second strat lol

To me though, if they don't introduce another way to get RP for these items, the length of the process to fully augment even one piece is simply way too long. Like that Ongo run didn't seem so bad but it still took a coordinated, strong (lagless?) group 10+ minutes to complete. I'm down for a bit of a grind, but this is just too much.

I feel like this event could really benefit from some kind of -lixir item (Eschalixir, Airlixir, etc) that can be obtained from perhaps the bosses directly or maybe even segments (at a high price?) to help facilitate RP growth. I'd rather not drown in this new kind of -lixir so much that it completely eliminates the need to do the event itself (similar to the issue with A/B/C Sheols), but there really should be something.

And if they do introduce some kind of RP bonus for doing multiple NMs, I'm sorry but job changing during an event is not content. Also, I couldn't imagine trying to coordinate jobs for a 6-man PUG on something like this; just doing it once within my shell was enough to give me a headache. Ultimately, I really hope the whole job-changing aspect of this event just never really comes to fruition; it seems fine enough as it is locking out SJs and not allowing multiples of the same job.

There's already pretty little interest in my shell for doing Odyssey due to the event's myriad of issues outside of rotating people in for T3 clears, and I think if they made changing jobs between each NM an actual "thing", then that'd be the final nail in the coffin.
 
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