The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||

言語: JP EN DE FR
2010-06-21
New Items
users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Odyssey » The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
First Page 2 3 ... 90 91 92 ... 110 111 112
Offline
Posts: 115
By Guyford 2021-02-27 06:40:01  
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
What you're describing is basically spritis within. A non-elemental magic attack that scales based on HP, and possibly the mobs own TP as well.
No, not the user's hp, the target's hp.
Asura.Sechs said: »
Have you guys tried getting multiple people hit by Tiiimbeeer at the same time, to sese if damage is shared or something strange happens?
Had it hit 5 things, 2 MM45 trusts Koru+Monbereaux (6.5k each) SAM (5k) Puppet (14k) and RUN (3k). This was back when we thought wind dmg was removing the aura which is why the RUN. Multiple targets doesn't reduce the dmg.
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 7646
By Asura.Sechs 2021-02-27 06:49:28  
The 6,5k on Trusts is peculiar though, given how I assume they don't all have the same exact amount of HP.
Also, MM45 doesn't raise their HP I think? Just raw stats like Meva, MDB etc?

Isn't this partially in conflict with what we assumed so far, that Tiiimbeeer damage scales with target's HP?


I think there are probably more factors at play. Tiiimbeeer does indeed scale with target's HP, but is partially reduced by... PDT? This could explain:
1) Run getting hit for less damage, despite having likely more HP than the SAM
2) Trusts getting hit for more damage, despite having (presumably?) more Meva/Mdb than players (they lack PDT, right?)


I dunno, throwing out ideas.


Edit:
Also Guyford, I assume you had those numbers at Vengeance 5 or 10? I'm sure that, unlike me, you already killed Mboze at Vengeance 0, right?
Offline
Posts: 115
By Guyford 2021-02-27 07:24:41  
Asura.Sechs said: »
The 6,5k on Trusts is peculiar though, given how I assume they don't all have the same exact amount of HP.
Also, MM45 doesn't raise their HP I think? Just raw stats like Meva, MDB etc?

Isn't this partially in conflict with what we assumed so far, that Tiiimbeeer damage scales with target's HP?


I think there are probably more factors at play. Tiiimbeeer does indeed scale with target's HP, but is partially reduced by... PDT? This could explain:
1) Run getting hit for less damage, despite having likely more HP than the SAM
2) Trusts getting hit for more damage, despite having (presumably?) more Meva/Mdb than players (they lack PDT, right?)


I dunno, throwing out ideas.


Edit:
Also Guyford, I assume you had those numbers at Vengeance 5 or 10? I'm sure that, unlike me, you already killed Mboze at Vengeance 0, right?
Trust campaign is active where they have +50% hp/mp
MM45 gives trusts 30 dt
Those numbers are from old V0 runs. Hated that tree so much haven't bothered with doing it at V5 yet, might try the smn kite method soon just to get r1 augs on everything
Offline
Posts: 4790
By SimonSes 2021-02-27 07:44:33  
Martel got hit by ~8.4k Timber on PLD having like 2500hp. I doubt damage scale with hp and damage being reduced by PDT in that case.
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 7646
By Asura.Sechs 2021-02-27 07:48:30  
SimonSes said: »
Martel got hit by ~8.4k Timber on PLD having like 2500hp. I doubt damage scale with hp and damage being reduced by PDT in that case.
Unless he got hit in a different set because of lag... but yeah, you raised a good point.
 Asura.Wotasu
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Wotasu
Posts: 159
By Asura.Wotasu 2021-02-27 07:50:08  
SimonSes said: »
Martel got hit by ~8.4k Timber on PLD having like 2500hp. I doubt damage scale with hp and damage being reduced by PDT in that case.
I was thinking it is defense based damage. But not really doing Gaol cause delays so can't test c.c
 Phoenix.Logical
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 341
By Phoenix.Logical 2021-02-27 09:08:31  
More info on Mboze, Almost had him solo! Got him to 12% without any issue, he then used Uproot triggering red proc and that same thing I mentioned before where a shield went up only allowing me to hit for 0 damage went up and ArkEV died, Resummoned August and by this time I was hitting for damage again and tried to multistep to get out of red proc mode but right after I did my red !! a fetter popped and I was paralyzed by Mboze from that point forward very often for the next 30 seconds until I sadly died. So just in case it's not known aura on Mboze is para, this makes solo multisteping problematic if it activates between second and third steps or in my case it was second and fourth as this was the second time uproot was used. Timber was thankfully never used which is what I'm of course hoping for... so close! I'll keep trying. Had 7 minutes and 45 seconds left when all the crazyness starting at 13%... this IS doable solo I think, just need luck. I shall keep making attempts.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2560
By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-02-27 09:34:34  
Here are the logged instances of Tiiimbeer usage that I have seen.

I can't state the conditions for each in detail as you can only tell so much from the logs.

I think I had around 2,800~ HP on Martel. It's normally 3k, but subjob lock screws with things.

I'm not sure that target DT or HP(max or current?) are valid damage modifiers. I've had cases where the luopan took more damage than me and others were it took like 3k less. /shrug.
Code
[20:07:37]Mboze readies Tiiimbeeer.
[20:07:37]Mboze uses Tiiimbeeer. Luopan takes 5660 points of damage.
[20:07:37]Martel takes 8444 points of damage.
[20:07:37]Mboze destroys Luopan.
[20:07:37]Martel was defeated by Mboze.

[20:18:36]Mboze readies Tiiimbeeer.
[20:18:36]Mboze uses Tiiimbeeer. Martel takes 4728 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Rejiin takes 3185 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Irritant takes 2798 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Shred takes 3056 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Ashraya takes 2880 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Luopan takes 0 points of damage.
[20:18:36]Martel was defeated by Mboze.
[20:18:36]Rejiin was defeated by Mboze.
[20:18:36]Irritant was defeated by Mboze.
[20:18:36]Shred was defeated by Mboze.
[20:18:36]Ashraya was defeated by Mboze.

[20:44:05]Mboze readies Tiiimbeeer.
[20:44:05]Martel's Fealty effect wears off.
[20:44:05]Mboze uses Tiiimbeeer. Martel takes 4740 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Rejiin takes 3566 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Irritant takes 2798 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Ashraya takes 2880 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Shred takes 3056 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Luopan takes 0 points of damage.
[20:44:05]Martel was defeated by Mboze.
[20:44:05]Rejiin was defeated by Mboze.
[20:44:05]Irritant was defeated by Mboze.
[20:44:05]Ashraya was defeated by Mboze.
[20:44:05]Shred was defeated by Mboze.

[20:49:05]Mboze readies Tiiimbeeer.
[20:49:05]Mboze uses Tiiimbeeer. Martel takes 6102 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Rejiin takes 3576 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Irritant takes 1198 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Shred takes 3056 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Ashraya takes 1278 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Luopan takes 0 points of damage.
[20:49:05]Martel was defeated by Mboze.
[20:49:05]Rejiin was defeated by Mboze.
[20:49:06]Irritant was defeated by Mboze.
[20:49:06]Shred was defeated by Mboze.
[20:49:06]Ashraya was defeated by Mboze.

[20:16:32]Mboze readies Tiiimbeeer.
[20:16:32]Martel's Stoneskin effect wears off.
[20:16:33]Mboze uses Tiiimbeeer. Rejiin takes 5697 points of damage.
[20:16:33]Martel takes 7181 points of damage.
[20:16:33]Luopan takes 7458 points of damage.
[20:16:33]Irritant takes 4880 points of damage.
[20:16:33]Rejiin was defeated by Mboze.
[20:16:33]Martel was defeated by Mboze.
[20:16:33]Mboze destroys Luopan.
[20:16:33]Irritant was defeated by Mboze.
[+]
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 1782
By Asura.Geriond 2021-02-27 10:01:25  
I wonder if Perfect Defense works on Tiiimbeeer.
Offline
Posts: 4790
By SimonSes 2021-02-27 11:10:09  
I wonder how bad is its SDT vs darkness damage. If DRK could MB Drain III for high enough to get like 9k+ HP maybe?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-27 11:28:59  
Guyford said: »
MM45 gives trusts 30 dt

Moogle Mastery also gives them hp/mp values, but it's mostly insignificant compared to the trust campaign bonus

Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
Sheol C:
Got MMXIV after 950 nostos kills.
Got MMXV after 1500 nostos kills.
No direct upgrade from the aurum strongboxes because nostos kill count was still low after opening 16.

The small HP/MP bonuses trusts get with MM are due to their level being increased.
I checked with ArkEV.
Lv HP MP
120 2124 1083
121 2136 1087
122 2148 1093
123 2160 1098
124 2172 1104
125 2185 1108 (MM30)
126 2197 1114
127 2209 1119
128 2221 1125 (MM45)

They gain 6 levels at MM30 and 9 levels at MM45 (1 level up every 5 MM?).
MM doesn't appear to stack with the Filled memory gem, whichever gives the highest level increase seems to take priority.
MM45 also gives -30% DT to trusts.
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 7646
By Asura.Sechs 2021-02-27 11:47:34  
Bg wiki and ffxiah posts report no hp increase on trusts though
Offline
Posts: 115
By Guyford 2021-02-27 11:58:44  
I believe only MM from certain sheols (B and C?) give hp increase
 Sylph.Brahmsz
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Khronos
By Sylph.Brahmsz 2021-02-27 12:08:28  
SimonSes said: »
I wonder how bad is its SDT vs darkness damage. If DRK could MB Drain III for high enough to get like 9k+ HP maybe?

After my One For All & Liement confirmations on first fight, went DRK on second fight.

Dark Seal, Nethervoid, double dark weather, and a BiS Drain set and I drained a whopping 528 HP.
[+]
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 1782
By Asura.Geriond 2021-02-27 12:21:58  
The T1 and T2 NMs seem to have 50% darkness resistance rank, while T3 have higher, probably at least 20%.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-27 13:19:42  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Bg wiki and ffxiah posts report no hp increase on trusts though

Bg wiki is edited by whatever mods know and the players who care to edit pages. It's not there because nobody added it. Others as well as myself personally commented on this very thread that trusts did gain HP from Moogle Mastery increases.

August of last year:


Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Siren.Codegen said: »
One difference I notice with the same trust summoned in SheolB compared to outside (I tested in past areas in case there was a sigil effect) is at least HP shows a difference, AAEV was 3009 outside and 3043 inside. It's not much but it could be used to at least see how things scale up at different levels of moogle mastery, would be especially interesting if it didn't just scale up linearly as there might be some hope for bigger jumps at higher levels.

What MM level are you Codegen? I checked inside + outside Odyssey with a similar trust set I roll with. I did notice the trusts start out with their base HP/MP values they have outside Odyssey, and then regen/refresh to their max inside, so it's definitely coming from the MM.



The bonus is really small though. +51HP/+20MP to AAEV at MM20 >.>
Offline
Posts: 239
By eeternal 2021-02-27 13:21:19  
MNK using Inner Strength and Mantra gives u almost 8k hp.. most likely will survive Tiiimbeeer
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-27 13:24:27  
Maybe timber damage is related to it receiving damage during some other move, similar to pain sync/Noahionto. I can't see them making you require a monk to sp2 and mantra in a fight where only he can be saved from the move and deals resisted damage to the tree to begin with. Though you can use it to test I guess
[+]
 Bahamut.Belkin
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Belkin
Posts: 138
By Bahamut.Belkin 2021-02-27 13:49:38  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Maybe timber damage is related to it receiving damage during some other move, similar to pain sync/Noahionto. I can't see them making you require a monk to sp2 and mantra in a fight where only he can be saved from the move and deals resisted damage to the tree to begin with. Though you can use it to test I guess

I think what they really want you to do is kite it and use Garuda/ranged damage. Seems the simplest and safest method so far.
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 1782
By Asura.Geriond 2021-02-27 13:51:10  
You can't use ranged damage; it's got like a 75% reduction on piercing damage, which might be doable if very slow on V0, but almost certainly impossible on V5 or higher.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-27 13:56:28  
That doesn't make sense. It's weak to slashing, not piercing, so using a kite strategy effectively removes the best method for killing it. Are Garuda's attacks even slashing? What's the range on Predator Claws? I feel like kiting actually makes it harder for something like a pet strategy, due to lag and more missed tp moves due to range. Plus, SE has never made kiting an actually required strategy for anything in this game, players just employed it due to ease. So while it might work, I can't see them making that the actual method. Also, timbeeer is a huge range, so kiting is kinda troublesome when it decides to use it.
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 1782
By Asura.Geriond 2021-02-27 13:59:01  
Actually, I think that one buffalo NM in CoP era was kite-only since its physicals did over 1000 per hit and ignored shadows.
Offline
Posts: 4790
By SimonSes 2021-02-27 14:04:57  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Maybe timber damage is related to it receiving damage during some other move, similar to pain sync/Noahionto. I can't see them making you require a monk to sp2 and mantra in a fight where only he can be saved from the move and deals resisted damage to the tree to begin with. Though you can use it to test I guess

I doubt that. I watched video where Martel got hit by 8444. He was soloing tree on PLD till that point. Unless he maybe did savage while tp move, but I doubt it.

Asura.Geriond said: »
The T1 and T2 NMs seem to have 50% darkness resistance rank, while T3 have higher, probably at least 20%.

Rayke and gravitation sc should bump that to 50%. It could work maybe. Still not sure how tomahawk works too.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-27 14:12:05  
Where's the video?
Offline
Posts: 239
By eeternal 2021-02-27 14:23:45  
YouTube Video Placeholder

@ 5:55
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2021-02-27 15:06:40
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | 引用 | 返事
 
Post deleted by User.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-27 15:08:38  
Maybe Tiiimbeeer damage is related to how many buffs it absorbs with Root of the Problem (kind of a meta name, if you think about it. Maybe they are giving the clue right there as to the source of the damage).

Martel is getting full buffs, and then it absorbs it with Root of the Problem. According to jp wiki, that's how it gains access to the move, but says Yumcax can always use it, so maybe Mboze is the same way, but damage affected by buffs absorbed.

http://wiki.ffo.jp/html/32576.html
Quote:
Basically, it is used when wearing special effects , but for Yumcax , it will be used regardless of the effect when HP is low

Have you tried it with Martel receiving no buffs? Or if he does and gets hit with Root of the Problem, turn away and dispel all of his buffs before continuing? See if that has any effect on Tiiimbeeer damage? I did't see anybody dispelling all of the buffs he stole, unless it was filtered on screen
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2560
By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-02-27 15:53:52  
I've not tried going in with no buffs. Cause that's horrible.

I'd have to think of some way to deal with, well, everything that comes with having no buffs. MP issues, ***recasts... It's already bad enough trying to keep hate with no subjob...

Regarding dispel, I can't recall if Mboze was one of them, but I've had quite a hard time landing dispels on some of these NMs at higher tiers.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-27 15:58:13  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
I've not tried going in with no buffs. Cause that's horrible.

I'd have to think of some way to deal with, well, everything that comes with having no buffs

Perhaps middle ground, like Fu. Only essential buffs (4-6) instead of 20 from songs, rolls, auspice, proshell, etc. I am just proposing what the cause of the damage for Tiiimbeeer might be attributed to. If you go in buffless or with few buffs, and it does 700 damage, then there's your answer. Then you find out how many buffs you can reasonably afford to keep on and tank with, and re-apply if it gets absorbed.
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2021-02-27 16:12:47
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | 引用 | 返事
 
Post deleted by User.
First Page 2 3 ... 90 91 92 ... 110 111 112
Log in to post.