Dynamis-Divergence Findings

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Dynamis-Divergence Findings
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 Sylph.Dravidian
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By Sylph.Dravidian 2018-03-29 03:40:08  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
L oh *** L

Quote:
Dynamis - Divergence Statue Crusher Campaign

The fastest an event ever got a campaign? Officially the shittiest event recognized by square? Someones job depends on you doing Dynamis... they are literally begging you to do it next month.

I'm looking forward to it.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-29 03:43:38  
They could've told us a few more details about the campaign...
Is this the perpetual campaign they intend to implement (bonus to a different zone every week) or an additional campaign to that?
Sounds like the latter.

Wonder what it'll be about and what they mean for "statue".
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 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2018-03-29 04:14:10  
Since they added Jeuno and the revised loot from commanders, and especially adding upgrade items to the gobbie-box list to go along with those pieces becoming bazaarable, I think Dyna-D as event has really turned a corner.

Its a shame that it took so long, but now it feels like more of an event worth doing. I think it still needs some further iteration (that second 30min TE is still AWOL, for a start) to enrich the content but its heading in the right direction at least.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-29 04:32:39  
Call me a fool but I think in the end I'm probably happier with the event lasting max 1h30 than 2hrs.

I think they totally need to reduce the cooldown to something like 40hrs at least though.
That way you could enter every other day, would make planning much smoother.

Oh and higher drop rates for Volte stuff. Make 1 volte 100% from zone Megaboss maybe as someone suggested. Would give more reason to kill them more than once.

Oh and last thing I would change, which likely will never happen, is making so normal mobs can drop shards/void of any job potentially, but are more likely to drop those of their two jobs.
That way you have a chance of getting shards/voids regardless of the jobs you're killing, but it will be more likely to get the "right ones".
This change should apply to normal mobs only, not Commanders/Leaders.
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 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2018-03-29 06:11:57  
The thing for me about the time extension thing is that the second phase mega-bosses, as things currently stand, aren't particularly worthwhile going for past the initial clear.

They take too long to kill relatively speaking, forcing groups to sacrifice loot from elsewhere in the run in order to accommodate them makes them unappealing. However, making killing them a potentially time-positive endeavour would help to offset the risk factor of taking them on, as opposed to simply grinding more commanders/aurix.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-29 07:08:51  
I think we can all agree that they need to make the megabosses more worthwhile than they are now, I was just arguing than adding 30 more mins of time wouldn't be my preferred route of choice.
I'd rather see them have 100% drops of sorts or stuff like that, rather than "forcing" you to spend 30 more mins in the zone.

I feel that way you would "specialize" your runs into wether you wanna focus on Commanders/leaders, megaboss, if you wanna bother with Aurix farming or just wanna do a mixed thing and so on.

If they bind 30 more mins behind the Megaboss it suddenly becomes mandatory to kill it every run (for groups who can, of course) rather than being an optional "choice".
Furthermore, speaking personally, I think it would also burn me out to do megaboss EVERY single dynamis time.
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 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2018-03-29 08:19:49  
That's a very fair point about there being a downside to megabosses becoming mandatory. But lets say they attached the second TE to Aurix, wouldn't that just elevate the importance of killing him to the same level?

It seems probable based on comments made in the past that they do have plans to push the max duration to 2hrs, so the question is how it'll be earned? Given the option of the two, I'm not sure if I'd favour Aurix.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-03-29 08:55:33  
I just wish the bosses were more fun, entertaining and engaging in and of themselves. And, since that is a complete pipedream...

Anyone remember ye olde NBA Jam? With the "He's on fire!" feature? How cool would it be to have something like that trigger whenever a DD did an exceptional weapon skill or a mage timed a stun/sleep/silence during a Commander's SP? Fireworks/damage bonus/bonus drops... Like a stagger system based on skill and not RNG + job specific gimmicks?
Would make the slaughter-fest that is Dynamis feel a bit more high-energy than boring.

I mean, really, how cold-hearted are we that we systematically murder beastmen in their homes while complaining the content is too monotonous and that our victims don't drop enough loot. At least, if there were more excitement, we could hide behind the frenzy.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-03-29 08:58:00  
Ok I was wrong, they went in the opposite direction with the campaign being so soon. Not actually upset though, it's the leading event in the game. Did statues every drop anything anyways? This would be pretty cool if stats had a random chance of dropping any item in the zone, sans Volte.

I actually do prefer them having this campaign sooner than later. If you log onto Asura at any time of the day, for example, the shouts are dominated by dynamis shard/void commerce. Seems like there's not enough mats going around, SE notices that, and it's the hot item right now. So kudos for this coming waaaaay sooner than anticipated. I saw this taking until after summer once the "area bonus" made a couple rounds through the zones.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-03-29 08:58:43  
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
I mean, really, how cold-hearted are we that we systematically murder beastmen in their homes while complaining the content is too monotonous and that our victims don't drop enough loot. At least, if there were more excitement, we could hide behind the frenzy.
I'm pretty sure that story-line wise these beastmen invaded these alternate cities and slaughtered the former inhabitants before they moved in. So I'm decidedly unrepentant about killing them for gear. <,<
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-29 09:04:58  
I'd prefer twice a week for 2hrs each. Scheduling 2hrs isn't any more difficult then scheduling 90min.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-29 09:22:38  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I agree TH is important. I never thought of THF/BLM. Great idea.

Runs out of MP too quickly, do THF/BRD instead. With haste spell they can spam horde with TH gear on then have several single target songs with TH get to tag the stragglers.
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By geigei 2018-03-29 09:27:21  
Never had mp issues, why would you choose a 4" tag over a 10"?
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-03-29 09:32:28  
"why would you ..."

"Saevel"

No further questions
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 Shiva.Hiep
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By Shiva.Hiep 2018-03-29 09:34:49  
Our THF/BLM mule never runs out of MP having only 4 refresh from rawhide mask, mekosu. harness, and rawhide trousers. I just spam sleepga/stonega depending how fast we pull.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-29 09:40:38  
geigei said: »
Never had mp issues, why would you choose a 4" tag over a 10"?

The tag is much better then 4 feet, it's a 4 foot radius meaning an 8 foot diameter tag.

The THF/BRD is usually in the tank pt without much in support. They aren't a mule and actually melee for TH on NM's. Our initial runs used THF/BLM ran out of MP within ten minutes or so with how much we pull. Switched to /BRD and zero issues from that point on out.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-03-29 10:00:33  
Quote:
Horde Lullaby Area of Effect
Skill Radius (Yalms)
0~96 4
97 5
116 6
135 7
154 8


THF/BRD will have max range with some string+ gear easily available

Not sure how you get to use string skill+ without an instrument though, so you should be limited to 4
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-03-29 10:05:03  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
I mean, really, how cold-hearted are we that we systematically murder beastmen in their homes while complaining the content is too monotonous and that our victims don't drop enough loot. At least, if there were more excitement, we could hide behind the frenzy.
I'm pretty sure that story-line wise these beastmen invaded these alternate cities and slaughtered the former inhabitants before they moved in. So I'm decidedly unrepentant about killing them for gear. <,<

Haha! Though, true, looking further back, the beastmen organized under the Shadowlord, who was created as a result of chosen representatives of the three nations murdering one of their own/ignoring the murder of one of their own/being racists.
I think it is telling that Diabolos works to "save" Altana's Vana'diel by creating Dynamis... But he doesn't save the five races; he saves the beastmen.
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-03-29 10:17:18  
One Galka gets screwed over, 4 cities massacred in return? Galka needs to stop throwing a hissy fit.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-29 10:28:41  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I agree TH is important. I never thought of THF/BLM. Great idea.

Runs out of MP too quickly, do THF/BRD instead. With haste spell they can spam horde with TH gear on then have several single target songs with TH get to tag the stragglers.
The problem with that is the bad range.
Horde Lullaby 1 has a much smaller range (when /BRD) compared to /BLM's sleepga.

It's true the MP can become an issue but it's easily solved if you put the THF in a pt with mages (where he's gonna get marches/ballad), with a RDM (refresh3!), or just tell your brd to use Ballad3 as third song, which can be wanted by other jobs as well (my BLUs often ask for ballad as 4th song when they're going magic-heavy)
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-29 10:29:34  
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
I just wish the bosses were more fun, entertaining and engaging in and of themselves. And, since that is a complete pipedream...
Wut?
I found Sandy boss to be quite refreshing and new, could say the same about jeuno.
Probably not so much about the Windy one and the Bastok one is just plain annoying/boring.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2018-03-29 10:53:46  
I'm curious why thf/blm for a /mage, why not thf/rdm for diaga access and self refresh?

Nevermind, diaga would interrupt sleeps
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-03-29 10:54:31  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
I just wish the bosses were more fun, entertaining and engaging in and of themselves. And, since that is a complete pipedream...
Wut?
I found Sandy boss to be quite refreshing and new, could say the same about jeuno.
Probably not so much about the Windy one and the Bastok one is just plain annoying/boring.

Really? What about them makes them stand out for you?
Without any story, the bosses just feel like another thing to turtle, pull into a corner and zerg down. Sure, there is some variety, in that, with Bastok, the corner gets rounded so the DDs can strike its face rather than its shell, but there aren't any cutscenes, no dialogue, no gimmicks like even Schah where some beastmen come to help their leader.
I'm not saying you are wrong to like them. I'm a little jealous, actually. If I'm missing something cool about them, please share.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-29 11:05:35  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I agree TH is important. I never thought of THF/BLM. Great idea.

Runs out of MP too quickly, do THF/BRD instead. With haste spell they can spam horde with TH gear on then have several single target songs with TH get to tag the stragglers.
The problem with that is the bad range.
Horde Lullaby 1 has a much smaller range (when /BRD) compared to /BLM's sleepga.

It's true the MP can become an issue but it's easily solved if you put the THF in a pt with mages (where he's gonna get marches/ballad), with a RDM (refresh3!), or just tell your brd to use Ballad3 as third song, which can be wanted by other jobs as well (my BLUs often ask for ballad as 4th song when they're going magic-heavy)

The difference is 2 yalms and there isn't room anywhere else for them to go. We kill ridiculously fast.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-29 11:06:56  
I'm confused. You were talking about them being or not being "fun". This is mostly about what they do and how you fight them. What exactly does having a backstory make them more or less fun?
Like... there's no story at all behind 98% of the nms we've been farming these past 14 years :O
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-29 11:12:09  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I agree TH is important. I never thought of THF/BLM. Great idea.

Runs out of MP too quickly, do THF/BRD instead. With haste spell they can spam horde with TH gear on then have several single target songs with TH get to tag the stragglers.
The problem with that is the bad range.
Horde Lullaby 1 has a much smaller range (when /BRD) compared to /BLM's sleepga.

It's true the MP can become an issue but it's easily solved if you put the THF in a pt with mages (where he's gonna get marches/ballad), with a RDM (refresh3!), or just tell your brd to use Ballad3 as third song, which can be wanted by other jobs as well (my BLUs often ask for ballad as 4th song when they're going magic-heavy)

The difference is 2 yalms and there isn't room anywhere else for them to go. We kill ridiculously fast.
Oh but I totally believe that in your setup you have mp issues add that /brd works better for you.
Was just saying it won't work for every setup.
For instance mp isn't an issue for us add typically /blm works better. And no, alas not all pulls (or mispulls) stay compact, I wish!

Furthermore I think the radius difference is at least 4 yalms and not just 2 (which, if you ask me, is still a lot) , but not 100% sure on that.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-03-29 11:20:48  
While I love the fact they are adding campaigns and other things for Dynamis-D, I still find the 60-hour wait excessive. The issue being that half of my LS found groups to run with very early in the contents life, so when I tried setting up my own runs we didn't have many to pick from; as many had already (or planned to) participated.

My group does a guaranteed event on Tuesdays, so I guess we could do Dynamis-D on those days next month, but it also eats in to our Omen progress (which we're not far from seeing the back of), and working on our next round of Aeonics. If half my group is unable to enter due to entering Sunday or Monday, there's little to no point setting it up. It's a pig to organise on a small server unless you completely forbid your linkshell from doing it on other days .. which I wouldn't do. I found myself having to join other groups when I can, but the times they go in are either too early, too late (like 4am to me), or do it randomly .. which means I've only entered San D'Oria and never had the chance to try the other three.

And what pains me more is that Relic +3s are not stupidly stronger than the AFs, and the cost is ridiculous due to the drop rates (most people making +3s keep their drops) and limited time doing the content. I figured after they introduced Jeuno they would consider slashing the wait time at least by half, giving players more time to enjoy it, and giving more windows of opportunity for players who don't get to play this game every day.

On the other side, I understand SE wants to prolong this content and are aware how hardcore some players can be. I bet there's a few who already have 5/5 +3s for at least one of their jobs, so they don't want these players to get bored, but the restrictions make it boring for players who aren't playing 24/7 who would like to do a run or two each week at a time which suits them.

Even with the weekly bonus and Statue campaign, I can't see a massive influx of players doing it. Not because they don't want to, or can't (not geared enough), but because players need to organise their lives around it. I remember back in the day when we did Dynamis every Wednesday and Saturday, and as the lead recruiter in our LS I saw this issue a lot. I saw many, many players dying to join us, but couldn't due to us having to run at a certain time on a certain day. I hated that so much, I wished that Dynamis could've been done three times a week so these players had more of a window to get their time in.

So I do like they are making changes so soon, but I don't believe it's enough for players like me. Like someone suggested, have the 60 hour wait for each zone, not for each entry. 48 hours could be the absolute minimum if they still want to limit the progress of hardcore farmers. It's a shame, because I've always enjoyed Dynamis, and it took up a lot of my time when I was younger. That's the problem though, most of us players are not young, we have families, full-time jobs and the like, we don't have time to organise ourselves around a 60-hour wait.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-29 11:22:42  
You are confusing radius and diameter. Lullaby distance is given in radius while everything else is listed as diameter. Diameter is radius x 2. This lullaby 4 radius translates to an 8 diameter vs sleepgas 10 diameter, thus 2 yalms difference.

Typical setup

Magic PT
BLU x3
RDM
GEO
BRD

Melee PT
DD x2
WHM
GEO
BRD
DD COR.

Tank PT
Pulling Tank
Camp Tank
Healer
THF

Only the tank PT has room for spare non DPS jobs. It's where we put people who need clears on jobs we can't fit in otherwise. This setup has us crushing everything that comes with the pulling tank doing 2-4 statue pulls every 10-15 seconds. Random deaths barely slow us down. THF/BRD has horde and several ST songs set for TH and their entire job is to get TH on everything while it's being killed. We don't wait on mobs to get positioned before slaughter begins.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-03-29 11:43:09  
Asura.Sechs said: »
I'm confused. You were talking about them being or not being "fun". This is mostly about what they do and how you fight them. What exactly does having a backstory make them more or less fun?
Like... there's no story at all behind 98% of the nms we've been farming these past 14 years :O

Yeah, and I'm not really happy about the lack of story. To your point, let's use Shadowlord as an example. It is a rough example, but let's work with it since:
He was the Dynamis boss.
His drops were pretty good, but not so good or plentiful that most expected to ever have them. They were more prestige pieces, which is what I think SE is going for with much of Volte.
It took a very specific set-up to kill him, so concessions had to be made in what jobs were brought and how well they were geared.
It took time to fight up to him, get set-up and then pull him down, so concessions had to be made to fight him rather than skip and farm lesser targets.

So, that out of the way, imho beating Shadowlord was far more exciting than these new bosses because:
He has story. We know who he is, why he is there and why we must drop him. And he is freaking huge!
His moves give him personality. Even if that personality is a total cheese d*ck, he has moves unique to himself that kept a group on its toes (stunning) to prevent a wipe. These new bosses have unique auras, but their SPs are copy-paste work. They feel inter-changeably dull, to me.
He has dialogue! Sure, it is always the same and most ignore it, still, he active taunts folks into wanting to kick his hiney.

I know I am in a super-minority for caring about this stuff. But, right now it's like, do we waste time beating this one guy, or clear another hallway, several leaders and maybe finish Aurix? Since none are more interesting than another, we are left with making choices with the only consideration the drops we might see. Drops are important, but I wish there was at least a shadow of another consideration to be made. I mean, Volte drops from leaders too, so, that isn't even a factor.
The new weapons or weapon ingredients will likely change how the mega-bosses are prioritized. But I still wish there was more. :/
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-29 19:13:27  
Asura.Saevel said: »
You are confusing radius and diameter. Lullaby distance is given in radius while everything else is listed as diameter. Diameter is radius x 2. This lullaby 4 radius translates to an 8 diameter vs sleepgas 10 diameter, thus 2 yalms difference.
Has the sleepga range been re-measured recently?
Because on BRD main my lullaby radius is around ~8, which should be noticeably bigger than sleepga's ~5 radius.
Yet our mages' sleepga consistantly sleep monsters further away than my Horde Lullaby I can.
So maybe it's ~10 radius and not diameter? Or some entirely different number?


For the rest yes, I can see how it works better with your setup.
With a setup with yours I'd probably go with a THF/BRD as well.
Not everybody uses the same setup though, I'm personally more keen on THF/BLM myself if you ask me. MP just isn't an issue when you have sources of refresh and/or a good idle refresh set.
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