Changes To Vagary?

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Changes to Vagary?
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2016-04-20 17:32:03  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
I do it to get players their clears before anything. We can't always find a scholar, and our experienced players don't always show up. Many are learning, we've helped so many in ten months. We started doing Escha NMs, but a few members left and we couldn't find a decent SCH to continue doing it. I'm trying to get us a dedicated SCH .. but it's difficult.

Our troubles stem from a lack of players on the server, and yes, Vagary is old. I don't expect anyone to stay for months, and it's good when they feel like they can move on to harder content. The event is really easy, or really difficult depending on who we have. To many players on these forums, you cleared Vagary while I was on break, I already knew that, but I hoped some would be sympathetic to those who missed out. I came back to the game and found no one wanted to do it, so I had to build my own LS to get clears.

The main three members of the LS have always wanted a Platemail, and at the time it was a really good option for the jobs we love. Now it's more of a trophy piece .. but we still want it. We're aware of the other options, but after 10 months it would be nice to see at least one of us get it. It's not the main reason why we do the event, we do it for the fun and to help others. At this point we would be happy to have another campaign because it's been several months. If all three of us got platemails tomorrow .. I would continue to run.

And I never said I want Vagary to be nerfed. Either give more incentive, or make minor tweaks to pump new life in to it. Keeping Adoulin content alive benefits everyone, and I'm not asking SE to destroy it, I'm asking them to breath life in to it. Either make it slightly (key word) easier on the casuals, or give more incentive for experienced players to redo the content for others.


If you're still on Cerberus, do you need me to Duo it my Mopolopo?

BLU / GEO combo FTW!

Don't make me show your linkshell up!
 Cerberus.Jiko
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By Cerberus.Jiko 2016-04-20 17:33:01  
Titanfoo said: »
IMO Vagary/Incursion/Delve should change to being able to enter solo, that is the only change I think is needed.

No. This game is not supposed to be a solo player MMO...
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 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2016-04-20 17:33:09  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Candlejack said: »
If lack of interest is the only reason why you have problems keeping people around, try switching events around and doing other things. People have stayed in Zygote purely because Zygote does Delve, Abyssea farming, WKRs, Vagary, Skirmish, Dynamis, Salvage, Nyzul/Neo Nyzul, Assaults, Einherjar, Sea, Sky, and VoidWatch. They constantly switch up what they do and when they do it. Someone needs a gear piece and the mats farmed? That decides what's going on during the given day. Someone needs something cleared? Phft, they're all there and set at event start time.
If you want people to stay interested, try switching the content so things don't end up feeling stale. There's still plenty to do.

My aim was to get enough players so we could work through Escha and Reisenjima NMs. It worked for a little while, but it fizzled out after a bad T3 run. Again, lack of a loyal SCH. It's not that I don't want to do other events, it's just finding the time and people. I can't play everyday, I have many other commitments, so I can't promise other events every week.

SCH really isn't needed in Escha until something like WoC and reisen T4.

If your members still need stuff from lower tier escha mobs, there are plenty of things you can do to bring the Ls together....without having a sch.
 Phoenix.Libbien
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By Phoenix.Libbien 2016-04-20 17:35:22  
Perhaps it's time to just pack it up as far as vagary is concerned. SE already threw vagary a bone by making the boss mats part of abj gear synths, and dark matter as potential bank breaki... i mean cap breaking augs on reisen gear.

The things I do to keep vagary alive is...

1) Keep attempting smaller and smaller pt numbers cause it makes it challenging again, and more fun/rewarding when u win cause less rewards to split. More so for the first 3 zones as perf/plouton are already mind numbingly awful to begin with.

2) Wait for a few people to return to the game or join our shell who need wins still. If they don't want to wait, they can always set it up themselves, but if I'm setting it up, I'd rather knock out wins for several people at once. This keeps it semi fresh and not overwhelmingly repetitive for our more experienced members.

3) Save spams for vagary campaigns. Everyone loves a free shot at tart mail so during the campaign is the best time to try and grind it out.

These may not be for you, as you said you prefer full ally runs, but if you're that dead set on keeping vagary alive I'd recommend these ideas. Otherwise just recognize that it's year old content with little replay value (other than gil which is washed away a great deal with a full ally) that will be hard to fill on a regular basis. Aside from dropping RME currency in vagary, I can't imagine what SE could do to make it enticing enough to make it a focal point of endgame content again.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-04-20 17:38:48  
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Candlejack said: »
If lack of interest is the only reason why you have problems keeping people around, try switching events around and doing other things. People have stayed in Zygote purely because Zygote does Delve, Abyssea farming, WKRs, Vagary, Skirmish, Dynamis, Salvage, Nyzul/Neo Nyzul, Assaults, Einherjar, Sea, Sky, and VoidWatch. They constantly switch up what they do and when they do it. Someone needs a gear piece and the mats farmed? That decides what's going on during the given day. Someone needs something cleared? Phft, they're all there and set at event start time.
If you want people to stay interested, try switching the content so things don't end up feeling stale. There's still plenty to do.

My aim was to get enough players so we could work through Escha and Reisenjima NMs. It worked for a little while, but it fizzled out after a bad T3 run. Again, lack of a loyal SCH. It's not that I don't want to do other events, it's just finding the time and people. I can't play everyday, I have many other commitments, so I can't promise other events every week.

SCH really isn't needed in Escha until something like WoC, Reisen T3 and T4.

If your members still need stuff from lower tier escha mobs, there are plenty of things you can do to bring the Ls together....without having a sch.

We killed many of the Escha NMs. I been meaning to get back to it, but several of the players who did it have left the LS or are taking breaks. So hopefully we can get back to it, because we still need to do a lot .. but it's hard to set up because very few want to do it. Either because of time issues, or they ain't geared enough. Also I don't know much about the NMs.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-04-20 18:07:42  
Phoenix.Libbien said: »
Perhaps it's time to just pack it up as far as vagary is concerned. SE already threw vagary a bone by making the boss mats part of abj gear synths, and dark matter as potential bank breaki... i mean cap breaking augs on reisen gear.

The things I do to keep vagary alive is...

1) Keep attempting smaller and smaller pt numbers cause it makes it challenging again, and more fun/rewarding when u win cause less rewards to split. More so for the first 3 zones as perf/plouton are already mind numbingly awful to begin with.

2) Wait for a few people to return to the game or join our shell who need wins still. If they don't want to wait, they can always set it up themselves, but if I'm setting it up, I'd rather knock out wins for several people at once. This keeps it semi fresh and not overwhelmingly repetitive for our more experienced members.

3) Save spams for vagary campaigns. Everyone loves a free shot at tart mail so during the campaign is the best time to try and grind it out.

These may not be for you, as you said you prefer full ally runs, but if you're that dead set on keeping vagary alive I'd recommend these ideas. Otherwise just recognize that it's year old content with little replay value (other than gil which is washed away a great deal with a full ally) that will be hard to fill on a regular basis. Aside from dropping RME currency in vagary, I can't imagine what SE could do to make it enticing enough to make it a focal point of endgame content again.

Thanks, I appreciate all the feedback. I recognize it is going to get harder, and I shouldn't expect to fill an ally every time. We will try with what we have, and we've had some close wins lately with fewer players. I need to get out of the mentality of taking as many as possible so the experienced players don't get bored. Perhaps I was asking a little too much, but it would be cool to have a campaign at least.
 
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-05-09 12:49:52  
I'm still amused by how much some players judged me and my linkshell and assumed we sucked so hard we had to cry to SE for drastic changes.

Clearly that wasn't the case, as many completely misunderstood what I was trying to say. Either way, I see there's no Vagary Campaign again this month, and I'm still trying to get SE's attention. Again, to put it as simply as I possibly can for those who want to judge and assume, I was asking for motivation to continue to do Vagary as a linkshell. As we've had no campaign for months, I wanted one so we could at least have a chance at some more platemails.

But then again, I know that even with a campaign on, the three main leaders of my LS still won't get one. Yeah .. yeah, we know it's a trophy piece blah blah .. but that doesn't stop us from wanting one after 11 months of hard work!

And I was also asking for progression. If you can trade crystal petrifacts to the gob in Reisenjima then spend thousands of merits on a Coruscanti .. then guess what .. you can! So why can't we do something similar with the Platemail? Better yet, what about players who don't want it? Surely SE could add something to give them incentive as well? Because at the end of the day, if we don't have a reason to do Vagary, how will returning players get their empyrean reforged unlocked? Why would anyone want to run the event for them other than to be kind?

Please join me in getting SE to notice this simple request. I'm not asking SE to kill the content and make it soloable. NO! NO! I would never want to destroy Vagary like they did to Dynamis back in the day. A Vagary Campaign at the very least is what my linkshell seeks. And yes, since I made this post I recruited, and continue to take 18 (believe it) players every Tuesday on one of the quietest servers which sees 250-300 players online outside JP primetime.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/50379-Vagary-Woes-Increasingly-More-Difficult-To-Run.-Lack-Of-Incentive.
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2016-05-09 12:56:09  
Vagary is fun and yes it would be nice to have another 30 day Campain ;-p
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-05-09 12:57:22  
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Vagary is fun and yes it would be nice to have another 30 day Campain ;-p

Then please upvote my OP on the SE forums and tell them we need a month long Vagary campaign soon. :) With enough views, upvotes and replies we might get their attention. If we had a vagary campaign for a month .. man, I would spam the hell out of it. Also, we've never had a 30-day campaign as far as I remember, it's only ever been a week at a time.
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By Faelar 2016-05-09 13:07:26  
One of my LSes did a full Vagary run yesterday. It was a PLD, a BST and a few BLM/SCH that did ALL the work, rest of the (full) alliance was just people who needed clears. 99% of the time everyone stood there while the BST/PD/Nukers killed everything. All gear was freelot, but nobody wanted much from anything except the Tartarus Mail...which didn't drop.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-05-09 13:16:09  
Faelar said: »
One of my LSes did a full Vagary run yesterday. It was a PLD, a BST and a few BLM/SCH that did ALL the work, rest of the (full) alliance was just people who needed clears. 99% of the time everyone stood there while the BST/PD/Nukers killed everything. All gear was freelot, but nobody wanted much from anything except the Tartarus Mail...which didn't drop.

It's always the case. My LS had players who really wanted a platemail, but after running with us for a few months and seeing it never drops, they gave up on it and left. Tidis and I came to the conclusion it doesn't exist on Plouton. I've seen a screenshot of it dropping ... a very long time ago, yet I still don't think it exists. I've seen a few players running around with it on .. but it doesn't exist. See the paradox? I got all the gear last year, and I only continue running the event to help others get clears, and perhaps get a platemail for myself, my dad, and Tidis.

We've killed Plouton more times than I care to remember. I also have a friend who got a platemail through the 1st vagary campaign (as did his wife.. crazy luck) and he spammed the hell out of Plouton with a low man group for weeks (mostly for dark matters) .. and he still didn't see it drop. Even with treasure hunter maxed out .. it doesn't drop. It's supposed to be rare .. but it's like finding a Pink tail on FFIV; virtually impossible.
 Bismarck.Laurelli
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By Bismarck.Laurelli 2016-05-09 13:32:19  
Faelar said: »
One of my LSes did a full Vagary run yesterday. It was a PLD, a BST and a few BLM/SCH that did ALL the work, rest of the (full) alliance was just people who needed clears. 99% of the time everyone stood there while the BST/PD/Nukers killed everything. All gear was freelot, but nobody wanted much from anything except the Tartarus Mail...which didn't drop.

Didn't 1 person in the alliance get it yesterday from the random trade?

I seacom'ed the platemail, but would have been happy if I could have learned blu 1 spell.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-05-09 13:44:36  
Bismarck.Laurelli said: »
Faelar said: »
One of my LSes did a full Vagary run yesterday. It was a PLD, a BST and a few BLM/SCH that did ALL the work, rest of the (full) alliance was just people who needed clears. 99% of the time everyone stood there while the BST/PD/Nukers killed everything. All gear was freelot, but nobody wanted much from anything except the Tartarus Mail...which didn't drop.

Didn't 1 person in the alliance get it yesterday from the random trade?

I seacom'ed the platemail, but would have been happy if I could have learned blu 1 spell.

Someone got it through random choice outside a Vagary campaign? Never heard of that before.
 Bismarck.Laurelli
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By Bismarck.Laurelli 2016-05-09 14:22:26  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Bismarck.Laurelli said: »
Faelar said: »
One of my LSes did a full Vagary run yesterday. It was a PLD, a BST and a few BLM/SCH that did ALL the work, rest of the (full) alliance was just people who needed clears. 99% of the time everyone stood there while the BST/PD/Nukers killed everything. All gear was freelot, but nobody wanted much from anything except the Tartarus Mail...which didn't drop.

Didn't 1 person in the alliance get it yesterday from the random trade?

I seacom'ed the platemail, but would have been happy if I could have learned blu 1 spell.

Someone got it through random choice outside a Vagary campaign? Never heard of that before.

Ok, I asked in LS just now and confirmed that the comment was a joke.
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By Boshi 2016-05-09 14:59:21  
Masters of Wahhhgary
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-05-09 16:12:02  
Boshi said: »
Masters of Wahhhgary

Others agree with me so I guess they are as well.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2016-05-09 16:54:54  
Kylos,

I have recently returned from a long break. I do have sch, but i have been focusing on whm, thf, blm, and geo lately. I am in the shell and have made a few of your runs, but my problem is I am often late due to my work schedule. You normally start shouting when I am still at work. By the time I get home, 60% of the time you have already entered at least 1 to 2 runs.

This is mostly due to me living in the US and you in Europe though. I would be happy to be your sch when I am available if you see me log on. I may need a bit of practice skillchaining on sch, that wasn't really a thing when I quit before, but it doesn't seem too hard.

Edit: Certainly I would be more useful in that role than as blm as you usually have me come, since I nuke for approximately 20% of the damage that your good blms nuke for.
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By Boshi 2016-06-09 10:49:02  
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 Siren.Kiyara
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By Siren.Kiyara 2016-09-03 04:34:56  
Definitely need to up the drop rate on Tartarus Platemail. It should be around 5-10% drop rate at lowest. Not this 1% BS. Also, they really need to remove the "if someone dies at all during the run, NM will not spawn or will despawn during fight" rule. I find that to a bit dumb considering what you have to do to get it to spawn in the first place and someone dying with a group of 18 is very possible as lot of these NMs will one shot you with utter ease.

Vagary imo doesn't scale in line with other content with Empyreal gear +1 requirements. I don't know how that is equivalent to High Tier BCNMs for Artifact 119 gear and Delve/Voidwatch for Relic 199 gear in terms of difficulty. Vagary is tremendously harder than Delve and High Tier BCNMs.

Lastly, the event seems very job elitist like old FFXI. All I see is an army of blm/sch/smn/blu and a pld/whm/brd etc doing this. This event is so mage/magic burst friendly. DD seems utterly useless from what I noticed. I pretty much just sat there and let all the mages just kill everything in mere minutes. Wasn't even a point of trying to melee as the mobs seemed to be extremely resistant to it and could easily one shot DDs. Again, the whole let's suck mage *** ordeal cause it's safe and easy I guess.
 Lakshmi.Konvict
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By Lakshmi.Konvict 2016-09-03 04:45:36  
Siren.Kiyara said: »
Definitely need to up the drop rate on Tartarus Platemail. It should be around 5-10% drop rate at lowest. Not this 1% BS. Also, they really need to remove the "if someone dies at all during the run, NM will not spawn or will despawn during fight" rule. I find that to a bit dumb considering what you have to do to get it to spawn in the first place and someone dying with a group of 18 is very possible as lot of these NMs will one shot you with utter ease.

Vagary imo doesn't scale in line with other content with Empyreal gear +1 requirements. I don't know how that is equivalent to High Tier BCNMs for Artifact 119 gear and Delve/Voidwatch for Relic 199 gear in terms of difficulty. Vagary is tremendously harder than Delve and High Tier BCNMs.

Lastly, the event seems very job elitist like old FFXI. All I see is an army of blm/sch/smn/blu and a pld/whm/brd etc doing this. This event is so mage/magic burst friendly. DD seems utterly useless from what I noticed. I pretty much just sat there and let all the mages just kill everything in mere minutes. Wasn't even a point of trying to melee as the mobs seemed to be extremely resistant to it and could easily one shot DDs. Again, the whole let's suck mage *** ordeal cause it's safe and easy I guess.
Just keep trying man. If they made that body 5 to 10% drop everyone would have it. Takes the average person at least over 50, took me closer to 150. It's less than 1% sadly lol.
 Lakshmi.Sulia
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By Lakshmi.Sulia 2016-09-03 07:28:12  
Siren.Kiyara said: »
Definitely need to up the drop rate on Tartarus Platemail. It should be around 5-10% drop rate at lowest. Not this 1% BS. Also, they really need to remove the "if someone dies at all during the run, NM will not spawn or will despawn during fight" rule. I find that to a bit dumb considering what you have to do to get it to spawn in the first place and someone dying with a group of 18 is very possible as lot of these NMs will one shot you with utter ease.

Vagary imo doesn't scale in line with other content with Empyreal gear +1 requirements. I don't know how that is equivalent to High Tier BCNMs for Artifact 119 gear and Delve/Voidwatch for Relic 199 gear in terms of difficulty. Vagary is tremendously harder than Delve and High Tier BCNMs.

Lastly, the event seems very job elitist like old FFXI. All I see is an army of blm/sch/smn/blu and a pld/whm/brd etc doing this. This event is so mage/magic burst friendly. DD seems utterly useless from what I noticed. I pretty much just sat there and let all the mages just kill everything in mere minutes. Wasn't even a point of trying to melee as the mobs seemed to be extremely resistant to it and could easily one shot DDs. Again, the whole let's suck mage *** ordeal cause it's safe and easy I guess.
Not sure if you've recently come back to the game, but a lot of content is geared toward magic bursting and not having any kind of melee jobs unless it is 1 other than the tank or sometimes 2 for SCing, which is usually just done by the SCH. Job composition is typically done in the safest and most efficient manner possible, that doesn't mean that there aren't other ways of doing it, just that people that consistently clear the content have found the ways that work best for it.

In reference to Vagary, when SE introduced Vagary they specifically stated they weren't going to make the content easier at all because they intended for it to be an alliance event where chances of success for victory could be lost if people weren't following directions to a T. I'd say that 2 of the 3 zones are relatively melee friendly, but only if you've got proper gear and buffs. Palloritus and Plouton both specifically need the magic burst setups because of the "death and warp away" that you're complaining about. People have consistently brought up the droprate of Mail and other things on official forums and SE says that they have no plans on easing droprates or difficulty on that content. "It was meant for alliances and to be difficult to obtain ilevel 119 Empyrean gear" is what they've said a ton in the past.
 Asura.Regicide
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By Asura.Regicide 2016-09-03 08:04:19  
Sylph.Systematicchaos said: »
I love the second post on the official forums. "The PLD had hate, but someone pulled hate and died. Plz make it so I can't pull hate."

Is it really that hard to understand that Vagary doesn't allow supertanking?

You can super tank
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2016-09-03 08:33:40  
Lakshmi.Konvict said: »
Siren.Kiyara said: »
Definitely need to up the drop rate on Tartarus Platemail. It should be around 5-10% drop rate at lowest. Not this 1% BS. Also, they really need to remove the "if someone dies at all during the run, NM will not spawn or will despawn during fight" rule. I find that to a bit dumb considering what you have to do to get it to spawn in the first place and someone dying with a group of 18 is very possible as lot of these NMs will one shot you with utter ease.

Vagary imo doesn't scale in line with other content with Empyreal gear +1 requirements. I don't know how that is equivalent to High Tier BCNMs for Artifact 119 gear and Delve/Voidwatch for Relic 199 gear in terms of difficulty. Vagary is tremendously harder than Delve and High Tier BCNMs.

Lastly, the event seems very job elitist like old FFXI. All I see is an army of blm/sch/smn/blu and a pld/whm/brd etc doing this. This event is so mage/magic burst friendly. DD seems utterly useless from what I noticed. I pretty much just sat there and let all the mages just kill everything in mere minutes. Wasn't even a point of trying to melee as the mobs seemed to be extremely resistant to it and could easily one shot DDs. Again, the whole let's suck mage *** ordeal cause it's safe and easy I guess.
Just keep trying man. If they made that body 5 to 10% drop everyone would have it. Takes the average person at least over 50, took me closer to 150. It's less than 1% sadly lol.
It's not like D ring was made available to literally every single player.

Just keep trying man, lol, it'll drop lol, it's intended to be super hard lol, you know, it's intended to be an event where you have to gather 18 players on a dead game lol, just keep trying lol, It's almost 2017 and you're here trying 150 times to get an armor from 2013 lol, believe it man!
 Ragnarok.Slyshen
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By Ragnarok.Slyshen 2016-09-03 09:14:09  
Siren.Kiyara said: »
Definitely need to up the drop rate on Tartarus Platemail. It should be around 5-10% drop rate at lowest. Not this 1% BS. Also, they really need to remove the "if someone dies at all during the run, NM will not spawn or will despawn during fight" rule. I find that to a bit dumb considering what you have to do to get it to spawn in the first place and someone dying with a group of 18 is very possible as lot of these NMs will one shot you with utter ease.

Vagary imo doesn't scale in line with other content with Empyreal gear +1 requirements. I don't know how that is equivalent to High Tier BCNMs for Artifact 119 gear and Delve/Voidwatch for Relic 199 gear in terms of difficulty. Vagary is tremendously harder than Delve and High Tier BCNMs.

Lastly, the event seems very job elitist like old FFXI. All I see is an army of blm/sch/smn/blu and a pld/whm/brd etc doing this. This event is so mage/magic burst friendly. DD seems utterly useless from what I noticed. I pretty much just sat there and let all the mages just kill everything in mere minutes. Wasn't even a point of trying to melee as the mobs seemed to be extremely resistant to it and could easily one shot DDs. Again, the whole let's suck mage *** ordeal cause it's safe and easy I guess.

They definitely DO NOT need to up the rate on this mail. I see enough people with it on. Secondly, I think it's ugly as ****, and not even that great whatsoever, even when it was released. Quit complaining over old content you aren't able to obtain within your convenient little time frame. If you want it bad enough, you will get it. Where there's a will, there's most definitely a way.
 Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2016-09-03 09:47:43  
I would interject that I believe the drop rate needs to be increased, 5-10% might be a bit extreme. I've lost track of the amount of runs I've been a part of but it certainly accounts for a less than 1% drop rate and it has still to drop from Plouton, we've seen several people get it as a KI turn in but that's it.
 Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2016-09-03 09:50:40  
Asura.Regicide said: »
Sylph.Systematicchaos said: »
I love the second post on the official forums. "The PLD had hate, but someone pulled hate and died. Plz make it so I can't pull hate."

Is it really that hard to understand that Vagary doesn't allow supertanking?

You can super tank
Odd to pull up a quote from over 100 days but hate is certainly odd in Vagary, when I'm due to super tank something, if I just sight aggro, a few always went off and to the group, but if I pull with flash (or any hate tool) then all the mobs stick to me. This doesn't count Rancibus zone but kill waves quick and hate isn't an issue.
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By Asura.Lordoftheseven 2016-09-03 09:52:53  
In the last month ive had 2 platemails drop to me from plouton. The drop rate is low but tbh dring was worse. More or less its a grind like everything else in FFXI. Drop rate is fine if you want one so bad hit me up ill merc it for 200mill.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-09-03 10:04:17  
132 kills last time i merced one, but you can get 6 kills an hour or so if you're fast and you get quite a bit of gil on the side

think it's fine as is.. not like it's even good for anything besides lockstyle
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By Ragnarok.Slyshen 2016-09-03 10:54:34  
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
I would interject that I believe the drop rate needs to be increased, 5-10% might be a bit extreme. I've lost track of the amount of runs I've been a part of but it certainly accounts for a less than 1% drop rate and it has still to drop from Plouton, we've seen several people get it as a KI turn in but that's it.

Even at 1%, that's about 100 runs, that's not bad at all. Not to mention how much gil you'll make along the way. So let's say you make 1M a run or so, you'll prob make more, and it takes you 100 kills to get platemail... congrats, you have 100M and a platemail now!
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