Changes To Vagary?

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Changes to Vagary?
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-09-04 09:54:09  
I don't think he hates merc, I think he just takes every chance he can get to say how helpful he is. Regardless, delve is lower content than vagary and still has plenty of unique mechanics to deal with. Trusts introduce SC+MB, not that vagary can't be cleared without it.

You can say it needs a nerf, but good groups can clear 5/5 in around an hour so I'd say it's weak enough as is.
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By Afania 2016-09-04 09:57:12  
Bismarck.Kuroganashi said: »
Vagary Seems to be abled to be 3 man now but for hands we used the following settup:

WHM + GEO (Master and with Idris) + BLM + BLU (Master and with Almace 119 Final) + BLU (Master) + (Trust Star Sybil for AOE nukes) (Amchuchu for NM Umbril + NM Fairy + Boss)

did fine, Fairy was worse for us due to her AOE but we managed to stay above 80% whole fight almost (except for once when we drop to 50%)

Boss was Easy !

Then did Legs :
WHM + GEO (Master and with Idris) + BLM + BLM (Master) + PLD (Master with Aegis) + SCH (Master)



Easy as hell. :D


The issue aren't Vagary being 3 man able though, the issue is Kylos only want to 18 man it, the proceed to ask for a change that benefits 18 man group because that's how he likes it, then proceed to bash anyone who made a different point as greedy merc that only play with themselves and dont help others.
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By Verda 2016-09-04 10:01:52  
I just want to add too, that in the past when we had members needing things we make times to do it that included vagary. While both LS I'm in have their applications closed atm, I'm very certain if you need a vagary clear joining an established LS is a very good way to go about it. You'll probably have to show you'll be around and contribute, and be expected to help out others as part of that. But that's how such things work there's a lot worse things in life than getting help and giving it in return.
 Bismarck.Kuroganashi
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By Bismarck.Kuroganashi 2016-09-04 10:02:23  
Afania said: »
Bismarck.Kuroganashi said: »
Vagary Seems to be abled to be 3 man now but for hands we used the following settup:

WHM + GEO (Master and with Idris) + BLM + BLU (Master and with Almace 119 Final) + BLU (Master) + (Trust Star Sybil for AOE nukes) (Amchuchu for NM Umbril + NM Fairy + Boss)

did fine, Fairy was worse for us due to her AOE but we managed to stay above 80% whole fight almost (except for once when we drop to 50%)

Boss was Easy !

Then did Legs :
WHM + GEO (Master and with Idris) + BLM + BLM (Master) + PLD (Master with Aegis) + SCH (Master)



Easy as hell. :D


The issue aren't Vagary being 3 man able though, the issue is Kylos only want to 18 man it, the proceed to ask for a change that benefits 18 man group because that's how he likes it, then proceed to bash anyone who made a different point as greedy merc that only play with themselves and dont help others.

Well, ya see, I didnt had clear til 2 days ago ^^; so just letting ppl know if they need clear what we used, sorry if it was off subject :(


I wish i had this info a while ago ^^;
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-09-04 10:14:03  
Bismarck.Kuroganashi said: »
Vagary Seems to be abled to be 3 man now but for hands we used the following settup:

WHM + GEO (Master and with Idris) + BLM + BLU (Master and with Almace 119 Final) + BLU (Master) + (Trust Star Sybil for AOE nukes) (Amchuchu for NM Umbril + NM Fairy + Boss)

did fine, Fairy was worse for us due to her AOE but we managed to stay above 80% whole fight almost (except for once when we drop to 50%)

Boss was Easy !

Then did Legs :
WHM + GEO (Master and with Idris) + BLM + BLM (Master) + PLD (Master with Aegis) + SCH (Master)



Easy as hell. :D

When I get my SCH to job master we going to try a low-man. Just for something different :) Why does SE not give us CP campaigns anymore? lol.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-09-04 10:19:42  
Verda said: »
I just want to add too, that in the past when we had members needing things we make times to do it that included vagary. While both LS I'm in have their applications closed atm, I'm very certain if you need a vagary clear joining an established LS is a very good way to go about it. You'll probably have to show you'll be around and contribute, and be expected to help out others as part of that. But that's how such things work there's a lot worse things in life than getting help and giving it in return.

That's awesome man, that the LS goes out of its way to help newer members get stuff. Unluckily there are literally no endgame LS to join on Cerb anymore. We had WhirlingWind, Tubbies, LastOfUs and some others, but they're all gone. So we rely on who's online, the server is pretty much one big linkshell as we all know each other. Even had a Japanese player join us last week, which was cool :) 6am start for them though lol. They didn't seem to mind one bit, and could type fluent English.

Many clears for people as of late, I see many players returning or getting to the level they can contribute. They were very happy with their clears and I'm sure they'll be back for more! :)

Afania said: »
Bismarck.Kuroganashi said: »
Vagary Seems to be abled to be 3 man now but for hands we used the following settup:

WHM + GEO (Master and with Idris) + BLM + BLU (Master and with Almace 119 Final) + BLU (Master) + (Trust Star Sybil for AOE nukes) (Amchuchu for NM Umbril + NM Fairy + Boss)

did fine, Fairy was worse for us due to her AOE but we managed to stay above 80% whole fight almost (except for once when we drop to 50%)

Boss was Easy !

Then did Legs :
WHM + GEO (Master and with Idris) + BLM + BLM (Master) + PLD (Master with Aegis) + SCH (Master)



Easy as hell. :D


The issue aren't Vagary being 3 man able though, the issue is Kylos only want to 18 man it, the proceed to ask for a change that benefits 18 man group because that's how he likes it, then proceed to bash anyone who made a different point as greedy merc that only play with themselves and dont help others.

Actually if I can't find 18 we will do it with less. Was doing it with 12 when interest dwindled. With the right LS members we could do it with less, I prefer not to if possible, but it's not a necessity. People want to join us, whether they need clears or not, I don't shout for three hours to get 18, I shout for an hour max (I have a cut off time) and we happen to fill up.
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 Asura.Yeira
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By Asura.Yeira 2016-09-04 10:45:15  
Afania said: »
Just FYI, if you think people don't do Vagary anymore, this is completely false. In fact I just did couple of run 5hr ago. Multiple groups of ppl in my network do Vagary for gil all the time, they just don't shout because it's done with 1 or 2 person and 3 mules so they don't need extras.

If you are a new or returning player that needs Vagary clears, the easiest way is probably search that zone for people farming gil, then send a tell to join them to leech KI. As long as leeches don't lot mat I don't see why wouldn't they get an invite.

The same is true of delve. It's really good money and this is why most low man it. This points to one the OP's issues, though.

For those without a network, vagary seems deserted. A shame because it's a fun event to do and one that is completely puggable. I also see very few Alluvion shouts now opposed to 6 months ago which I find sad. People obviously still do them based on -dim stone prices but not often through shouts anymore.

Mercing goes a long way back in this game so I don't see why people would have a problem with it. KSNM99 BLM shells and BLM burns for scorpions back in the day were pretty common.

No one is forcing you to buy the clear: you can shout and form your own group. The only problem is there are fewer people and, even more important, those who use Vagary to make money are much less incentivized to help since it cuts into their profits.

I'd rather retain the new players who do join and replenish our numbers opposed to scaring them away as soon as they hit 99 and realize that they require some emp pieces. I'd personally tie the requirements for emp armor to Ambuscade or Reisenjima and leave the upgrade items in Vagary. That way, both groups win. New players get an easy unlock but still have to farm for gil for the upgrade material while people who run low man Vagary still get their gil.

And to fix the issue in the future, moving the unlock mechanic to whatever event was popular that month would alleviate the problem of outdated content controlling important upgrade paths.

Also, I highly recommend going through with leveling SCH Kylos. A competent SCH makes Vagary a breeze.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-09-04 10:54:03  
Asura.Yeira said: »
Afania said: »
Just FYI, if you think people don't do Vagary anymore, this is completely false. In fact I just did couple of run 5hr ago. Multiple groups of ppl in my network do Vagary for gil all the time, they just don't shout because it's done with 1 or 2 person and 3 mules so they don't need extras.

If you are a new or returning player that needs Vagary clears, the easiest way is probably search that zone for people farming gil, then send a tell to join them to leech KI. As long as leeches don't lot mat I don't see why wouldn't they get an invite.

The same is true of delve. It's really good money and this is why most low man it. This points to one the OP's issues, though.

For those without a network, vagary seems deserted. A shame because it's a fun event to do and one that is completely puggable. I also see very few Alluvion shouts now opposed to 6 months ago which I find sad. People obviously still do them based on -dim stone prices but not often through shouts anymore.

Mercing goes a long way back in this game so I don't see why people would have a problem with it. KSNM99 BLM shells and BLM burns for scorpions back in the day were pretty common.

No one is forcing you to buy the clear: you can shout and form your own group. The only problem is there are fewer people and, even more important, those who use Vagary to make money are much less incentivized to help since it cuts into their profits.

I'd rather retain the new players who do join and replenish our numbers opposed to scaring them away as soon as they hit 99 and realize that they require some emp pieces. I'd personally tie the requirements for emp armor to Ambuscade or Reisenjima and leave the upgrade items in Vagary. That way, both groups win. New players get an easy unlock but still have to farm for gil for the upgrade material while people who run low man Vagary still get their gil.

And to fix the issue in the future, moving the unlock mechanic to whatever event was popular that month would alleviate the problem of outdated content controlling important upgrade paths.

Also, I highly recommend going through with leveling SCH Kylos. A competent SCH makes Vagary a breeze.

Not a bad idea at all, making it so there's another way to unlock Empyrean for those who find it difficult to get a Vagary group would be healthy for returning players and farmers. That's another reason why I get players in, it gives farmers more players to sell too, therefore keeping prices up, and at the same time they earn new 119 equipment. Someone said to me on Tuesday "you're single handedly boosting Cerb's economy with these runs lol". Funny stuff.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-09-04 11:00:07  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
I don't think he hates merc, I think he just takes every chance he can get to say how helpful he is. Regardless, delve is lower content than vagary and still has plenty of unique mechanics to deal with. Trusts introduce SC+MB, not that vagary can't be cleared without it.

You can say it needs a nerf, but good groups can clear 5/5 in around an hour so I'd say it's weak enough as is.

Around an hour to do all five bosses? Perhaps with the most perfect Rancibus run ever! Even then ...
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-09-04 11:27:14  
lucky rancibus run, you can get under an hour

typical is like 22 min for putraxia+perfidien+plouton, 15 min for palloritus, 25 min for rancibus
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2016-09-04 12:22:47  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
lucky rancibus run, you can get under an hour

typical is like 22 min for putraxia+perfidien+plouton, 15 min for palloritus, 25 min for rancibus

Perhaps with everyone job master/afterglow/idris GEO etc. Without you're looking at 2 hours on average to do all five. An hour to do five is pretty extreme, unless the players you take happen to have everything in the game and can't progress any further in terms of equipment or job points.

Also no one going AFK, or disconnecting, which in my runs never happens as someone always manages it. Not timed our runs before, but I think we did all five in under an hour and half once, but it required three NMs from three pillars in the Ranci run, and flawless on the others.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-09-04 13:42:02  
I said specifically, 'a good group'. And no, you don't need everyone job master/afterglow/idris GEO. You don't even need 18 people. You can do it in an hour with 8, or a little longer with a single party or less.

Your group of largely inexperienced casuals being able to clear it in 90 min reinforces the point that the content is not too hard. You are clearly biased.
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By Afania 2016-09-04 14:10:44  
Asura.Yeira said: »
Afania said: »
Just FYI, if you think people don't do Vagary anymore, this is completely false. In fact I just did couple of run 5hr ago. Multiple groups of ppl in my network do Vagary for gil all the time, they just don't shout because it's done with 1 or 2 person and 3 mules so they don't need extras.

If you are a new or returning player that needs Vagary clears, the easiest way is probably search that zone for people farming gil, then send a tell to join them to leech KI. As long as leeches don't lot mat I don't see why wouldn't they get an invite.

The same is true of delve. It's really good money and this is why most low man it. This points to one the OP's issues, though.

Vagary is not the same as delve though, and doesn't share the same issue. In delve NM HP scale up with more members, Vagary doesn't.

Like I said before, if someone needs Vagary clear they can just send tell to those farming mat and offer help, and let the group keep mat. That way it benefits both groups gets what they need and doesn't require camping shout or something.
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