So You Wanna Tank On PUP?

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So you wanna tank on PUP?
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By clearlyamule 2017-04-30 14:04:15  
Ah I see the confusion other guy was asking about gear dt not pdt. Totally forgot the legs though so that does get to 46% dt.
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By Ruaumoko 2017-05-02 21:30:13  
YouTube Video Placeholder

Not my video but I was part of the group.

I took most of my tanking attachments off and went for a more aggressive Valoredge load-out including Speedloaders and Inhibitors.

This was the fastest Fu I have ever seen, so fast we couldn't even keep up with it's uses of Nullification.

'Its dead Jim'.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-03 07:22:44  
Our army of KI mules lol.
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-05-03 07:29:33  
Ruaumoko said: »
YouTube Video Placeholder

Not my video but I was part of the group.

I took most of my tanking attachments off and went for a more aggressive Valoredge load-out including Speedloaders and Inhibitors.

This was the fastest Fu I have ever seen, so fast we couldn't even keep up with it's uses of Nullification.

'Its dead Jim'.

Master Strategist Saevel said:
Uh oh...just survive.
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By Ruaumoko 2017-05-03 09:46:03  
It's a perfectly reasonable thing to suggest.

Not everyone in the group, player characters especially, were as sturdy as my Automaton so urging people to stay alive is reasonable.
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 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-05-03 18:09:12  
Ruaumoko said: »
It's a perfectly reasonable thing to suggest.

Not everyone in the group, player characters especially, were as sturdy as my Automaton so urging people to stay alive is reasonable.

I'm just ribbing Saevel, it's something you'll hear from anyone leading an event at one time or another because it's pretty generic. Which is also why it's not really "reasonable" in that "just survive" is incredibly generic and doesn't offer any suggestions as to what to do to survive. Turtle up in DT? Run away like you're a WHM in the dunes that just pulled aggro? Stop all enmity generation so you don't possibly pull from the tank?

I mean, it's not like too many people actively go into battle with an intent on dying.
 Shiva.Siviard
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By Shiva.Siviard 2017-05-03 18:15:36  
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
It's a perfectly reasonable thing to suggest.

Not everyone in the group, player characters especially, were as sturdy as my Automaton so urging people to stay alive is reasonable.

I'm just ribbing Saevel, it's something you'll hear from anyone leading an event at one time or another because it's pretty generic. Which is also why it's not really "reasonable" in that "just survive" is incredibly generic and doesn't offer any suggestions as to what to do to survive. Turtle up in DT? Run away like you're a WHM in the dunes that just pulled aggro? Stop all enmity generation so you don't possibly pull from the tank?

I mean, it's not like too many people actively go into battle with an intent on dying.

If you ain't dying, you ain't trying.
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-05-03 18:26:49  
Shiva.Siviard said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
It's a perfectly reasonable thing to suggest.

Not everyone in the group, player characters especially, were as sturdy as my Automaton so urging people to stay alive is reasonable.

I'm just ribbing Saevel, it's something you'll hear from anyone leading an event at one time or another because it's pretty generic. Which is also why it's not really "reasonable" in that "just survive" is incredibly generic and doesn't offer any suggestions as to what to do to survive. Turtle up in DT? Run away like you're a WHM in the dunes that just pulled aggro? Stop all enmity generation so you don't possibly pull from the tank?

I mean, it's not like too many people actively go into battle with an intent on dying.

If you ain't dying, you ain't trying.


More like if you are not trying to kill everyone else, where is the fun?
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [456 days between previous and next post]
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By Teuphist 2018-08-02 07:29:50  
I strongly feel we should make an attempt to figure out gearing/defense for the master in order to co-tank for better enmity management against these ever increasing DPS jobs.
Could potentially increase PUP being sought after if we could get more on par with PLD or RUN (though vastly different).
 Ragnarok.Neyochimaru
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By Ragnarok.Neyochimaru 2018-08-02 09:22:02  
Won't happen. Co-tanking isn't very bright. You have an immortal automaton. What more do you want? Pup tank every omen, all of dynamis D that i've done (-wave3), most of escha, unity, etc. Most of if not all of the HQBCNM fights....

Now, tell me why you'd want to have yourself as a master anywhere near your puppet, and the enemy?? Sure. Some things have hate resets, and you think you'd wanna try and keep hate in order to use vent to pass it back to the automaton. But if you die, it dies, and you'll not never but hell never be anywhere near as sturdy on your best day as that puppet.

I found love for pup. I hated it for a long *** time. People will never 'seek after' pup, and they wont ever be on par with pld or rune. I don't see that as a bad thing. But if you're insisting on being up in stuffs face with your puppet, you're gonna be one of those pups that gives what i said that negative twirl.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-08-02 09:37:52  
There are already good ways to build enmity on automaton. you can do the /blu techniques that Tru described at the beginning of this thread, then while pet is tanking make sure to swap pet enmity set in when pet used flash, provoke, shield bash.

Why would you want the master to be in range?

The only tool for managing hate between master and pet is Ventriloquy. but that's not suited for co tanking. it would either kill the master from AoE, or kill the master from taking hate from pet.

Co-Tanking would make more sense for bst, who must generate all the enmity on master, then transfer it all to pet with snarl. bst also serves as a better dd on master than pup does, and the master on bst is sturdier than master on pup.
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By Teuphist 2018-08-02 16:00:58  
Ragnarok.Neyochimaru said: »
Won't happen. Co-tanking isn't very bright. You have an immortal automaton. What more do you want? Pup tank every omen, all of dynamis D that i've done (-wave3), most of escha, unity, etc. Most of if not all of the HQBCNM fights....

Now, tell me why you'd want to have yourself as a master anywhere near your puppet, and the enemy?? Sure. Some things have hate resets, and you think you'd wanna try and keep hate in order to use vent to pass it back to the automaton. But if you die, it dies, and you'll not never but hell never be anywhere near as sturdy on your best day as that puppet.

I found love for pup. I hated it for a long *** time. People will never 'seek after' pup, and they wont ever be on par with pld or rune. I don't see that as a bad thing. But if you're insisting on being up in stuffs face with your puppet, you're gonna be one of those pups that gives what i said that negative twirl.

The idea is for when you and your LS or maybe a small group you usually get with want to switch up jobs and maybe your ordinary tank can play something else. In many cases where players want to play...let's just say WAR (since it's the one job guaranteed to steal hate from an Automaton) and you want to potentially reduce said WAR from stealing hate. Keep yourself busy with swapping sets as needed and I would like to believe being near the Automaton isn't so terrible.

A good NM which I have successfully done this on in the early Omen days is Kin with a WAR and SAM fighting. They did hold back as to not steal hate from the Automaton, but I also didn't have the enmity gear on master or sets as I do now. Our WHM healed as you would expect and beside a few learning curves our runs went well with this setup.

No, I'm not suggesting co-tanking Dynamis or T4 Reisenjima, but maybe that we challenge ourselves do maybe survive a Kouryu attempt.

I'd just like to say that this community has never been about the Meta. It's always going to be looked at negatively by majority of the player base until we're needed (mostly for Ambuscade). I know, I've literally played the job since day 1 of its implementation and the one job you'll likely only see me on outside of events where I'm not WHM. That being said, I don't think any of us have some fear of what people are going to think if you attempt something not commonly thought of or that it's going to hurt the job's reputation any. I know what happens if the master dies, if it should not and who tends to be the last one standing in many situations (PUP saving the day). In a way that answers the "why?", it's fun to challenge the limitations set by ones' comfort zone.
 Ragnarok.Neyochimaru
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By Ragnarok.Neyochimaru 2018-08-02 18:46:45  
I, being one of those 'Dont care, gtfo' people, and enjoying the thrill of 'screw why, i got this', suppose i can see what you mean. honestly, i prefer a puppet tank over a real tank when possible. It's just easier, simpler, safer, and just outright better in my experience, and i have a built pld. I learned by rolling with a career pup, and inheriting his body. I misunderstood your meaning the first time. I still think masters are back line, and back line only these days, but i also am never on that character for more than a few mins at a time.

Hate's not a problem for me though, on almost everything, and that's generally versus a rema blu, a nirvana smn, and a rdm with semi good gear. Pup is a staple in my personal playstyle anymore.

Maybe i just dont see what you mean ebcause i dont have those problems as my style is different. :D

Best of luck.

only bad pup is a noob/dead pup!
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-08-02 21:11:55  
Yeah, I don't have trouble holding hate on pup, and I've no idea why you think going in w/ master would be helpful for holding hate.
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By Teuphist 2018-08-10 05:10:18  
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Yeah, I don't have trouble holding hate on pup, and I've no idea why you think going in w/ master would be helpful for holding hate.

Because it has helped holding hate..as stated above. I imagine control would have been worse if just the Automaton was relied upon for it.

Teuphist said: »
A good NM which I have successfully done this on in the early Omen days is Kin with a WAR and SAM fighting. They did hold back as to not steal hate from the Automaton, but I also didn't have the enmity gear on master or sets as I do now.

Have to expose yourself to it to know if you are capable.
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