So You Wanna Tank On PUP?

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So you wanna tank on PUP?
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By clearlyamule 2017-01-31 17:35:20  
In theory you could have it set up to swap to a more DD oriented set based on pet tp which I'm somewhat starting to consider. Pet will still do what it wants but would allow you to stay in dt gear a decent portion of the time while still maxing ws dmg. If you really want to get into it could even possibly make different swaps based on maneuvers up (not sure if gearswap has a way to account for frame) to do swaps based on the ws it would do... but that's a tad much for me lol.

And of course there are the swaps for various jas like maneuvers, repair, OD etc but that can be somewhat easily handled otherwise if you don't want to make the effort but I like the auto swap back though I do it with ashitacast
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By Sockfoot 2017-02-07 04:12:43  
GearSwap can detect automaton WS, are you saying it won't swap the gear in fast enough for it to be used?
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By clearlyamule 2017-02-07 09:43:25  
It's not really a matter of speed so much as the ws is already happening
 Lakshmi.Anastasia
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By Lakshmi.Anastasia 2017-02-07 18:38:07  
Although I have yet to actually use it, I recently added a hotkey for pet WS. So if I press CTRL and = at the same time, it'll switch me to my Pet WS gear. It should swap back after the pet WSs or in 5 seconds, which ever comes first.

This should work well enough since you generally have a good idea of when the pet is going to WS.
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 Cerberus.Jiko
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By Cerberus.Jiko 2017-02-10 20:59:38  
Asura.Avallon said: »
Fenrir.Sathicus said: »
Since my first tanking experience will likely be on Schah or something of similar difficulty I'll probably take the advice and wait for JPs, but skilling up seems like a pain in the *** without a preferred spot so hopefully there will be some insight into that.

Also, I feel like it was lightly touched on, but no confirmation, are people opting for Shell V head with VE body over VE/VE combo for anything that has the ability to nuke?

Seems with Shell V DT-% (except for breath I guess) should be very easy to cap even without maneuvers.
Asura.Avallon said: »
I didn't even realize PUPs were being used to tank Schah (+ at least 1 Mantri + misc adds). PUP obviously has a role for Teles during the aura phase but I'm not aware of anyone really doing that anymore.

Is this old news or something recent?

Can anyone answer this? I'm genuinely curious to see if LS's are using PUP's to tank Schah now, or if it's an old strat I'm just now hearing about.

I've *** told you about this since you were on Cerberus how many months ago. Obviously you were too wrapped up in yourself to pay attention or care, definitely one or the other...
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2017-02-11 08:37:43  
My issue with Gearswap is that it doesn't do anything for me while I am playing PUP. I VERY rarely engage with the master, and most of the time I'm not willing to change out of pet focused gear to cast what is usually an irrelevant spell. I have complete control by just using in game macros and equipsets, and it isn't difficult to set them up or use them. When do I engage with the master, I swap between pettp/petws/mastertp/masterws just fine with in game macros and equipsets. I don't see value in using Gearswap since which set I want to be in changes from second to second depending on situation, and not in any kind of pattern I can predict well enough to program in.

That's just me though.
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By Xilk 2017-02-13 10:16:38  
Ironically, even if pup tanking works well without gearswap, I missed it tremendously for all the little subjob things.

like cure potency set
like fast cast
I dont' remember if cancel works w/out gearswap for snk/inviz/utsusemi type stuff

It is actually more tedious to try to program all my gearswap stuff into ffxi macros than it is to update/use gearswap.
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By Jadey 2017-02-13 10:31:14  
Is there a way for Gearswap to automatically swap into a WS set when the puppet is over 1000TP since swapping at the time of the WS is too late or would it have to be an aftercast check once an action is taken?
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By Xilk 2017-02-13 14:15:32  
Jadey said: »
ce swapping at the time of the WS is too late or would it have to be an aftercast check once an action is taken?
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it can be done.

but that will hurt you when inhibitors are on.
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By clearlyamule 2017-02-21 21:11:53  
So it seems there is a rather interesting bug for autos that some of you people tanking might be interested in.

Starting hereA jp player is talking about a bug report he previously made. As far as I can tell he's saying he isn't always able to reproduce it or maybe that the devs weren't not sure. Anyways if you follow his conversation in the thread he talks about it more and even puts a vid up while describing what he did to make it happen. The steps that matter (as far as I can tell by context and personal testing) are send auto after a mob with a II animator equipped.(can retrieve after but not sure if you have to). Then swap to a I animator then back to a II then back to a I.

What does this bug do you might ask. Well he seems to say it makes it so the auto wont ws at least with melee frame and apparently deactivating doesn't work

Devs sound like they saying they can't reproduce it.

Now that's all I got from googlefu so it might not be 100% but....

And following those steps I have reproduced those results using sharpshot frame... and not only that but it also stops shooting <.<. Though going back to a animator II seems to fix it. Huzzah there is a way to turn off auto ws. That said it seems a little buggy. Tried it 3 times it worked 2. But once it works it keeps working until you fix it killing mob after mob no ws or ranged attack
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By clearlyamule 2017-02-24 22:53:42  
So newest dev note sounds like they are going to actually be looking into it. Get your wsless tanking in while you can
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 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2017-02-28 09:10:16  
If the 12.5% PDT and Shield from Valor frame isn't really needed, is it good to use Storm frame if you're using Soulsoother anyway to provide support to the team/use shell/cast cursna and other spells while tanking or are there other reasons to stick to Valor body?

Used PUP for Gin as Valor+Soulsoother and it went fine, but wondering if Storm+Soulsootger would be better for cursna.
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By clearlyamule 2017-02-28 09:21:16  
Well it's more than just the pdt and shield. Valor also has a 60% def bonus vs other frames 10% and it gets a 20% hp bonus while stormwaker gets a 20% penalty. Not sure how it stacks with other penalties but if it's added like most of innate bonuses with percentage buffs it could be pretty bad with doom.

On the other hand Gin's physical dmg is pretty meh and you can still cap pdt I think and soulsoother does get more mdt to handle the more dangerous stuff like zero hour and nukes
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2017-02-28 09:36:26  
Oh, didn't know about the defense bonus and the hp boosts/penalties. Yeah, I'll just stick with Valoredge frame. Just thought it would be cool to drop Cure Vs on the DDs all while tanking.
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By Ruaumoko 2017-04-15 15:39:53  
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
My issue with Gearswap is that it doesn't do anything for me while I am playing PUP. I VERY rarely engage with the master, and most of the time I'm not willing to change out of pet focused gear to cast what is usually an irrelevant spell. I have complete control by just using in game macros and equipsets, and it isn't difficult to set them up or use them. When do I engage with the master, I swap between pettp/petws/mastertp/masterws just fine with in game macros and equipsets. I don't see value in using Gearswap since which set I want to be in changes from second to second depending on situation, and not in any kind of pattern I can predict well enough to program in.

That's just me though.
I agree with you, at least for fights where I as the master am not directly involved in the battle. For fights like Fu I prefer using in-game /equipset __ commands to snap between sets for the Automaton. It's quicker honestly.

YouTube Video Placeholder


It's what I did here.
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 Fenrir.Svens
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By Fenrir.Svens 2017-04-15 22:20:00  
Is adad amulet actually pet DT? Aside from that, I decided to test the shock absorber attachments since I was bored. The formulas on BG wiki are correct, with optic fiber and using multiple tiers affecting the skill portion of the formula. So with all 3 attachments, 434 skill, 1 Earth and 1 Light, you would get

200 + 434(0.2+0.4+0.6)(1.5)= 981

which matched what I tested in game. With overdrive, it would be a theoretical 2592 stoneskin. While it may be difficult to fit in all 3 shock absorbers, I also learned that you can cap pdt with all of the available pet DT gear for pup (including the dreadful Thurandaut Ring +1), armor plate II, Optic Fiber I+II, and and earth + light maneuver active.

12.5% Valoredge Frame
9% Stout Servant
46% Gear
10% Armor Plate II base
5 % Armor Plate boost from Earth Maneuver
5% OF I+II boost from Light Maneuver

Of course, using a higher armor plate does allow you to keep capped pdt while using a dps set, I just found it interesting it reached 87.5% exactly in calculation and in game.
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By clearlyamule 2017-04-16 01:45:34  
Fenrir.Svens said: »
Is adad amulet actually pet DT?
What like you think it's a typo or something?
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By Fenrir.Svens 2017-04-16 05:06:28  
I saw it in the video's tank equipset and was confused.
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By Ruaumoko 2017-04-16 06:44:24  
Fenrir.Svens said: »
Is adad amulet actually pet DT? Aside from that, I decided to test the shock absorber attachments since I was bored. The formulas on BG wiki are correct, with optic fiber and using multiple tiers affecting the skill portion of the formula. So with all 3 attachments, 434 skill, 1 Earth and 1 Light, you would get

200 + 434(0.2+0.4+0.6)(1.5)= 981

which matched what I tested in game. With overdrive, it would be a theoretical 2592 stoneskin. While it may be difficult to fit in all 3 shock absorbers, I also learned that you can cap pdt with all of the available pet DT gear for pup (including the dreadful Thurandaut Ring +1), armor plate II, Optic Fiber I+II, and and earth + light maneuver active.

12.5% Valoredge Frame
9% Stout Servant
46% Gear
10% Armor Plate II base
5 % Armor Plate boost from Earth Maneuver
5% OF I+II boost from Light Maneuver

Of course, using a higher armor plate does allow you to keep capped pdt while using a dps set, I just found it interesting it reached 87.5% exactly in calculation and in game.
I actually only just noticed it was in there after the fight, like my Enmerkar Earring not swapping. I don't use the /equipset function often so I'll look into that.

That's a massive amount of Stoneskin when using all three Shock Absorbers, especially under Overdrive. By only using the Shock Absorber III under Overdrive, and assuming 434 skill, you'd get an 887 HP Stoneskin going by the forumla [Stoneskin = 200 + (Skill x 1.8)]. This is not factoring in Optic Fibers either. While it seems low you then have to consider how little damage your Automaton is actually tanking, like mine was in that video. I'd even go as far to suspect that with a 2592 HP Stoneskin the effect might even survive until the Shock Absorber is ready again (3:00 cooldown).

Interesting to know, I actually didn't know the Shock Absorbers stacked.
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By Ruaumoko 2017-04-16 08:00:44  
clearlyamule said: »
Well it's more than just the pdt and shield. Valor also has a 60% def bonus vs other frames 10% and it gets a 20% hp bonus while stormwaker gets a 20% penalty.
Is it +60% Defense Bonus? According to the BG Wiki the Valoredge has an innate -12.5% Damage Taken.
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By clearlyamule 2017-04-16 15:06:06  
Ruaumoko said: »
clearlyamule said: »
Well it's more than just the pdt and shield. Valor also has a 60% def bonus vs other frames 10% and it gets a 20% hp bonus while stormwaker gets a 20% penalty.
Is it +60% Defense Bonus? According to the BG Wiki the Valoredge has an innate -12.5% Damage Taken.
Each frame has innate bonuses to things like hp, mp, def, evasion, attack, acc and possibly others but those require actually testing instead of just /checkparaming.

They also have varying amounts of pdt, mdt and probably bdt (pending annoying testing). One of the pages that used to say all frames had an innate 6% or something used to specify this but looks like someone edited or something. With frames like valoredge it's not so noticeable since it's mdt and pdt are the same but with something like stormwaker that has no innate pdt but a ton of mdt it's pretty easy to see... well unless it shell'd itself and you are geared so are super overcapping.
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By jopa 2017-04-29 18:09:05  
clearlyamule said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
clearlyamule said: »
Well it's more than just the pdt and shield. Valor also has a 60% def bonus vs other frames 10% and it gets a 20% hp bonus while stormwaker gets a 20% penalty.
Is it +60% Defense Bonus? According to the BG Wiki the Valoredge has an innate -12.5% Damage Taken.
Each frame has innate bonuses to things like hp, mp, def, evasion, attack, acc and possibly others but those require actually testing instead of just /checkparaming.

They also have varying amounts of pdt, mdt and probably bdt (pending annoying testing). One of the pages that used to say all frames had an innate 6% or something used to specify this but looks like someone edited or something. With frames like valoredge it's not so noticeable since it's mdt and pdt are the same but with something like stormwaker that has no innate pdt but a ton of mdt it's pretty easy to see... well unless it shell'd itself and you are geared so are super overcapping.
After testing 1000 Needles, Discoid, Dragon Breath, and Radiant Breath using different frames, gear, attachments, and even subbing /PUP, I feel pretty confident in saying these are the frames' DT values:

Harlequin: DT -6.25%
Valordege: DT -12.5%
Sharpshot: DT -12.5%
Stormwaker: MDT -25% / BDT -25%
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 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-04-29 19:29:37  
Fenrir.Svens said: »
Is adad amulet actually pet DT? Aside from that, I decided to test the shock absorber attachments since I was bored. The formulas on BG wiki are correct, with optic fiber and using multiple tiers affecting the skill portion of the formula. So with all 3 attachments, 434 skill, 1 Earth and 1 Light, you would get

200 + 434(0.2+0.4+0.6)(1.5)= 981

which matched what I tested in game. With overdrive, it would be a theoretical 2592 stoneskin. While it may be difficult to fit in all 3 shock absorbers, I also learned that you can cap pdt with all of the available pet DT gear for pup (including the dreadful Thurandaut Ring +1), armor plate II, Optic Fiber I+II, and and earth + light maneuver active.

12.5% Valoredge Frame
9% Stout Servant
46% Gear
10% Armor Plate II base
5 % Armor Plate boost from Earth Maneuver
5% OF I+II boost from Light Maneuver

Of course, using a higher armor plate does allow you to keep capped pdt while using a dps set, I just found it interesting it reached 87.5% exactly in calculation and in game.
Just wana see what gear you have to get 46%
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-04-29 19:42:20  
ItemSet 350926

Should be 47% alone. Earth pet path Magian H2H would add an additional 8 PDT
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By Ruaumoko 2017-04-29 20:16:11  
This is the set I use.

ItemSet 336530

-30% Damage Taken (Condemners have -5% Damage Taken on them).
-42.5% Damage Taken when factoring in Valoredge's innate value.
-51.5% Damage Taken when factoring both and Stout Servant III.

I need some math crunching done if anyone can chip in.
Armor Plate IV: -20% / -25% / -30% / -40% Physical Damage Taken
Mana Jammer IV: +40 / +50 / +60 / +70 Magic Def. Bonus
Optic Fiber I: +10% / +20% / +25% / +30%
Optic Fiber II: +15% / +30% / +37.5% / +45%

I typically run Fire/Light/Earth for tanking purposes, Water in place of Earth if the target's magic is more dangerous.

The calculation I need doing is about how much Physical Damage Taken -% I am getting from x1 Earth and x1 Light, with the larger question being whether or not I even need to run x1 Earth with this setup to reach the -87.5% cap. I get the feeling I don't even need to run the x1 Earth to cap and I'm better off either doubling up on Fire or Light, or putting the x1 Water in there.

Cheers in advance.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-04-29 20:21:38  
Without an earth maneuver you're at 81.5%. You can get 3% more in ear and HQ or 4% Taeon in 3 slots will cap you. Just ear and Foire +3 legs puts you at 86.5% without an earth too.
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By ZanjiXth 2017-04-30 10:01:45  
Nice Guide, I can't wait to log back in soon!!!
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By clearlyamule 2017-04-30 12:23:12  
jopa said: »
clearlyamule said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
clearlyamule said: »
Well it's more than just the pdt and shield. Valor also has a 60% def bonus vs other frames 10% and it gets a 20% hp bonus while stormwaker gets a 20% penalty.
Is it +60% Defense Bonus? According to the BG Wiki the Valoredge has an innate -12.5% Damage Taken.
Each frame has innate bonuses to things like hp, mp, def, evasion, attack, acc and possibly others but those require actually testing instead of just /checkparaming.

They also have varying amounts of pdt, mdt and probably bdt (pending annoying testing). One of the pages that used to say all frames had an innate 6% or something used to specify this but looks like someone edited or something. With frames like valoredge it's not so noticeable since it's mdt and pdt are the same but with something like stormwaker that has no innate pdt but a ton of mdt it's pretty easy to see... well unless it shell'd itself and you are geared so are super overcapping.
After testing 1000 Needles, Discoid, Dragon Breath, and Radiant Breath using different frames, gear, attachments, and even subbing /PUP, I feel pretty confident in saying these are the frames' DT values:

Harlequin: DT -6.25%
Valordege: DT -12.5%
Sharpshot: DT -12.5%
Stormwaker: MDT -25% / BDT -25%
Huzzah bdt is finally done lol
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By clearlyamule 2017-04-30 12:29:49  
Ramuh.Austar said: »
ItemSet 350913

Should be 47% alone. Earth pet path Magian H2H would add an additional 8 PDT
Not seeing the actual set here... but outside of lucky DM augments how exactly are you getting past 44 pet dt with just gear?
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-04-30 13:35:01  
ItemSet 350926

Condemners puts you at 45% DT plus Rimeice over handlers is 46%.
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