On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (V2)

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On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (V2)
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 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-04-22 11:44:27  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
A dead WHM *can* lead to a wipe, but doesn't mean that it's an automatic wipe.

Same can be said of a dead PLD.

Short answer is: You lost a major asset in the fight.

Long answer is: You lost a major asset in the fight but can still recover from it if you are able/smart/lucky enough to do so.

How about trying for a situation where neither one dies? Or learn from your mistakes and do better next time?

Aka let the tank pop defensive CDs instead of trying to finangle a debuff onto yourself and running oom or dying.
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By eliroo 2019-04-22 11:44:45  
The death of a DD can potentially cost you a Wave 3 Dynamis clear.
The death of multiple DDs will most likely cost you a Wave 3 clear.

Though I doubt bringing up Wave 3 means anything to you.
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 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-04-22 11:46:24  
eliroo said: »
The death of a DD can potentially cost you a Wave 3 Dynamis clear.
The death of multiple DDs will most likely cost you a Wave 3 clear.

Though I doubt bringing up Wave 3 means anything to you.

Whm isnt keeping DD alive during wave 3, and if anything uses zombie the tank should be smart enough to save defensive procs for it.

Dead or oom whm will wipe you as well.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2019-04-22 11:47:45  
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Not really. Especially when the more DDs that die the easier time youll have with handling the situation in the first place due to fewer/less powerful mob abilities. Unless youre trying to zerg, not much of a loss (and people need to get out of zerg meta anyway)
A) A DD doesn't have to whack a mob while trying to recover from a bad situation. If you have DDs that continue to whack a mob while the group is trying to recover, the raise that DD last. It's that simple.
B) If you are in a situation where all the DDs are dead and the tank is the only one left, odds are that you will not recover, especially in timed instances. You can either wipe/recover or just take the fail and try from the start. And find out what caused the wipe in the first place and either improve/fix the problem or, if it's not anyone's fault (bad timing on moves, etc.) try again and hope the RNG gods are not being *** the next time.
C) Leaving the DDs dead and just focusing 100% on one player (the tank) will *always* cause a loss. Even if you win the fight, you lost because that strategy will never produce the same results again (mainly because the DDs that you let die did 95% of the work and you just floated your way to victory off their efforts).

Edit: I think this is now appropriate for this argument
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 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-04-22 11:56:38  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Not really. Especially when the more DDs that die the easier time youll have with handling the situation in the first place due to fewer/less powerful mob abilities. Unless youre trying to zerg, not much of a loss (and people need to get out of zerg meta anyway)
A) A DD doesn't have to whack a mob while trying to recover from a bad situation. If you have DDs that continue to whack a mob while the group is trying to recover, the raise that DD last. It's that simple.
B) If you are in a situation where all the DDs are dead and the tank is the only one left, odds are that you will not recover, especially in timed instances. You can either wipe/recover or just take the fail and try from the start. And find out what caused the wipe in the first place and either improve/fix the problem or, if it's not anyone's fault (bad timing on moves, etc.) try again and hope the RNG gods are not being *** the next time.
C) Leaving the DDs dead and just focusing 100% on one player (the tank) will *always* cause a loss. Even if you win the fight, you lost because that strategy will never produce the same results again (mainly because the DDs that you let die did 95% of the work and you just floated your way to victory off their efforts).

Edit: I think this is now appropriate for this argument

Lol, no. DD does 3% of the work at best. All a DD has to do is not *** up SC rotations. Supports, healers and tanks are the only jobs that do real work in any group.
 Shiva.Spathaian
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By Shiva.Spathaian 2019-04-22 12:00:52  
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
eliroo said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
eliroo said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
eliroo said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
"I made a mythic quickly after having already done all the major prereqs i dont need to do again". Its not as quick the first time.

Doing the prereqs for my Gastraphetes took about a week. So yeah its definitely a bit longer but again, not 3 months.

Yeah, no. Unless youve done this before on another char or have a group to help you through everything, its not going to be done in a week.

(Not to mention the time ittd take to gear another job to solo the content required)



I mean I did it. So you can't say no. Also a group of people to help me? I had some friends help me through some assaults but most was done solo. Who would of thought that you can make friends in a MMO.

Don't assume your inabilities apply to the general public. If someone said "I want to make mythic" they could do all the steps required in a 1-2 week time frame.

Really. You cleared all of rov, all of toau, got another non whm job to 99 and geared really well (most likely blue mage that needs weeks of spell farming and multiple gear sets to solo ein), and learned how to do all the steps on your own solo in a week?

Yeah, no. You already had stuff done and ready so you could before hand, and decided to only do that, which most sane people wouldnt do.

Sorry I forgot to list all the prequisites.

Well damn if we look at all that it would probably take someone 28 years to make a mythic.

I had to be born first, then I had to grow up and then I had to get to a point in my life where I had some spare time to dedicate to playing FFXI.

Wow good luck anyone looking to start a mythic.

Again, unless you have a group to help you, you need a non whm job to be able to solo the prereqs. Which means you need likely blue mage leveled and geared. Its not like everyone has a leveled blu with a mab set.

And lamps in nyzul will kill runs solo.
Why do you keep saying you need to have blu leveled and geared... Einherjar is a joke at 99 w/ basic ilvl. I'm sure a melee WHM could solo it just fine. Or if you're really that bad, level literally any DD/Tank job.
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By eliroo 2019-04-22 12:02:08  
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Supports, healers and tanks are the only jobs that do real work in any group.

You can run a literal bot for the first two of those. But yea tanks do a ***ton, I won't argue against that.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2019-04-22 12:03:51  
And I think that is where you are incorrect, and let me explain why:

Everyone has a roll in a party:

Tanks keep hate on them and only them.
Healers keep the tanks up and any DDs who are in danger of dying.
DDs keep whacking on the mob, taking it down and ending the battle as fast as they can.

If any of the three groups cannot do their job, the fight fails. You cannot win a fight with only a tank and a healer. You cannot win a fight with only DDs and a healer (sidenote: DDs can be tanks, that's usually who is the one who is doing the best amount of damage the shortest amount of time, and the one the healer focuses on the most. Don't think I mean that tanks are worthless, a party needs to keep hate off of the healer). You cannot win a fight with only a tank and DDs.

At least, not any fight worth doing. Sure, a group of 99 players in any of the above situations can beat Bubbly Bernie, but not an Omen boss. You need all 3 to win the fights that matter.

If a healer cannot heal, then the fight will fail.

All 3 groups are worth equal. You cannot be victorious with a party of only tanks and healers. Good luck trying.
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By eliroo 2019-04-22 12:08:10  
Well you see. If you DD as WHM you are both the Healer and the DD and if you let the tank die because you won't sac him then you are the Healer, the Tank and the DPS. Or if you aren't DDing hard enough the other DDs will die and eventually you will be 100% of the DPS, the healer and the tank.

At that point you are the most important person in the party.
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 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2019-04-22 12:29:43  
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
A dead whm is worse than a dead tank
It really isn't. You appear to be the only one on this entire forum who thinks it is.

A dead WHM has other people to back up their heals while they get back up, cast Reraise, and then get back to healing. And yes, a WHM can main heal just fine while weakened. It just means mixing up their Cures to juggle cooldowns.

If a tank dies, the NM is on the loose killing people left and right while the WHM tries to raise them, rebuff them, and then they have to build hate again from zero. It's going to be a much bigger disruption to the fight.

Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
And either way, tank should have defensive CDs for zombie. If the tank cant save one or pop 1hr, thats on them.
Defensive abilities won't always get you through it. Tanks can't just reduce their damage taken to zero on demand. God forbid they need those defensive abilities for other things besides surviving zombie just because their WHM won't heal them.

You can't just assume the tank is going to survive, your job as WHM is to ensure that they do at all costs. Zombie is one of the most dangerous ailments in the game for a tank to have. You're basically leaning on the tank to be a superstar when you could easily share the burden.

Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Aka let the tank pop defensive CDs instead of trying to finangle a debuff onto yourself and running oom or dying.

Again, how on earth are you dying so easily on WHM or running out of MP just because you got Zombie? You should be out of harm's way so that you can do stuff like cast Sacrifice without putting yourself in much risk.

This whole debate makes me think you have something seriously wrong in your approach to WHM. Most likely having to do with poor positioning.
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By Afania 2019-04-22 12:40:34  
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Nariont said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Id rather be unable to cure them. Again, whm is most important.

whats more likely to die and cause a wipe, the guy whos in range of everything, namely tank, or the one out of range, and can revive immediately after and still keep going?

I need to let others die so that i can live to keep others alive is some backwards logic

Whm dying is more likely to cause a wipe than a tank dying.

This is false, because as long as geo is up they can cure tank while whm gets up.

Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Tank can pop CDs to take near 0 damage for the duration of zombie. Me dying means i have no mana, a massive slow so i need to drop more MP/cure while cure IV is down, and the time it takes for me to get back up can result in deaths.

Pld can take 0 dmg from physical and run can take 0 from magical. None can take 0 dmg for everything.

If you die and run low on mana, use /p chat and ask for ballad. With 2 ballads on you should be able to keep going.

Alternatively radial arcana can restore mp real quick.

Also have to say its not tough to carry a vile elixir+1 all time for emergency mp recovery.

Basically, there are many ways to deal with low mp after death.

Slow is not that big of an issue on cures if you alternate them and have geo helping.

Asura.Pergatory said: »
This whole debate makes me think you have something seriously wrong in your approach to WHM.

This, and I feel OP is trolling, since all that "whm cant land debuff in most content unless you /blm" talk.
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By Afania 2019-04-22 12:55:57  
eliroo said: »
The death of a DD can potentially cost you a Wave 3 Dynamis clear.
The death of multiple DDs will most likely cost you a Wave 3 clear.

Though I doubt bringing up Wave 3 means anything to you.

This whm dying argument is completely irrelevant in alliance content anyways. In a properly organized wave 3 alliance there are minimium 2 whm, 1 rdm, 3+ geo that can help with cure if 1 whm is dead.

If you have a 6 man setup of tank, dd, dd cor, dd brd/nin, dd geo/nin, whm then MAYBE the argument of dead whm = wipe make sense.

In an alliance with so many supports 1 of them dying shouldnt affect alliance as much.
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By eliroo 2019-04-22 13:05:02  
Why is the GEO sub ninja before the WHM or is WHM sub DNC.
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By Afania 2019-04-22 13:07:53  
eliroo said: »
Why is the GEO sub ninja before the WHM or is WHM sub NIN too.

Every support /nin or bust!!! Screw distract! ;)
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2019-04-22 13:40:32  
Afania said: »
eliroo said: »
Why is the GEO sub ninja before the WHM or is WHM sub NIN too.

Every support /DNC or bust!!! Screw cures! ;)
fixed
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 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-04-22 16:23:08  
eliroo said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Supports, healers and tanks are the only jobs that do real work in any group.

You can run a literal bot for the first two of those. But yea tanks do a ***ton, I won't argue against that.

You can run a bot for a DD. Healer and support much less so in real content.
 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-04-22 16:25:44  
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
A dead whm is worse than a dead tank
It really isn't. You appear to be the only one on this entire forum who thinks it is.

A dead WHM has other people to back up their heals while they get back up, cast Reraise, and then get back to healing. And yes, a WHM can main heal just fine while weakened. It just means mixing up their Cures to juggle cooldowns.

If a tank dies, the NM is on the loose killing people left and right while the WHM tries to raise them, rebuff them, and then they have to build hate again from zero. It's going to be a much bigger disruption to the fight.

Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
And either way, tank should have defensive CDs for zombie. If the tank cant save one or pop 1hr, thats on them.
Defensive abilities won't always get you through it. Tanks can't just reduce their damage taken to zero on demand. God forbid they need those defensive abilities for other things besides surviving zombie just because their WHM won't heal them.

You can't just assume the tank is going to survive, your job as WHM is to ensure that they do at all costs. Zombie is one of the most dangerous ailments in the game for a tank to have. You're basically leaning on the tank to be a superstar when you could easily share the burden.

Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Aka let the tank pop defensive CDs instead of trying to finangle a debuff onto yourself and running oom or dying.

Again, how on earth are you dying so easily on WHM or running out of MP just because you got Zombie? You should be out of harm's way so that you can do stuff like cast Sacrifice without putting yourself in much risk.

This whole debate makes me think you have something seriously wrong in your approach to WHM. Most likely having to do with poor positioning.

Good luck having the bard/nin heal, or the cor/non whm heal. Its not gunna go well. Not every person has a geo, and not all content even allows the support to heal.
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By eliroo 2019-04-22 16:29:23  
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
eliroo said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Supports, healers and tanks are the only jobs that do real work in any group.

You can run a literal bot for the first two of those. But yea tanks do a ***ton, I won't argue against that.

You can run a bot for a DD. Healer and support much less so in real content.

What would you define as real content? The only thing I haven't seen a bot healer heal is Master trials but I haven't even done those yet.
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By Aerison 2019-04-22 16:31:58  
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
A dead whm is worse than a dead tank
It really isn't. You appear to be the only one on this entire forum who thinks it is.

A dead WHM has other people to back up their heals while they get back up, cast Reraise, and then get back to healing. And yes, a WHM can main heal just fine while weakened. It just means mixing up their Cures to juggle cooldowns.

If a tank dies, the NM is on the loose killing people left and right while the WHM tries to raise them, rebuff them, and then they have to build hate again from zero. It's going to be a much bigger disruption to the fight.

Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
And either way, tank should have defensive CDs for zombie. If the tank cant save one or pop 1hr, thats on them.
Defensive abilities won't always get you through it. Tanks can't just reduce their damage taken to zero on demand. God forbid they need those defensive abilities for other things besides surviving zombie just because their WHM won't heal them.

You can't just assume the tank is going to survive, your job as WHM is to ensure that they do at all costs. Zombie is one of the most dangerous ailments in the game for a tank to have. You're basically leaning on the tank to be a superstar when you could easily share the burden.

Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Aka let the tank pop defensive CDs instead of trying to finangle a debuff onto yourself and running oom or dying.

Again, how on earth are you dying so easily on WHM or running out of MP just because you got Zombie? You should be out of harm's way so that you can do stuff like cast Sacrifice without putting yourself in much risk.

This whole debate makes me think you have something seriously wrong in your approach to WHM. Most likely having to do with poor positioning.

Good luck having the bard/nin heal, or the cor/non whm heal. Its not gunna go well. Not every person has a geo, and not all content even allows the support to heal.
Girls you're both pretty.

WHM goes down you can recover, Tank goes down you can recover. Stop blowing it out of proportion....
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 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-04-22 16:36:35  
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
You can run a bot for a DD. Healer and support much less so in real content.


You can literally bot almost every job. People have scripts to automate PLD. Automate WHM better than real players half the time.
kinda sad, but it's whatever.

eliroo said: »
What would you define as real content? The only thing I haven't seen a bot healer heal is Master trials but I haven't even done those yet.

And yes. you can healbot Master trials. I got lazy once and used cureplease on Unafraid of the dark. And i'm 100% positive you can do Black and White without a whm, Turms gloves does all the healing.

I've heard people use very advanced healbots for Iroha, but i'm keeping quiet on who lol.
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By Bahamut.Agerine 2019-04-22 16:48:19  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
You can run a bot for a DD. Healer and support much less so in real content.


You can literally bot almost every job. People have scripts to automate PLD. Automate WHM better than real players half the time.
kinda sad, but it's whatever.

eliroo said: »
What would you define as real content? The only thing I haven't seen a bot healer heal is Master trials but I haven't even done those yet.

And yes. you can healbot Master trials. I got lazy once and used cureplease on Unafraid of the dark. And i'm 100% positive you can do Black and White without a whm, Turms gloves does all the healing.

I've heard people use very advanced healbots for Iroha, but i'm keeping quiet on who lol.


Give us the goods! With the anticipation and arguing over the WHM update and state of the job in general we could use some more juicy drama!
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 Shiva.Xelltrix
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By Shiva.Xelltrix 2019-04-22 19:52:45  
Aerison said: »
Girls you're both pretty.

Hehe, I was just watching Megamind clips this weekend.
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By Shiva.Phioness 2019-04-25 04:47:31  
In the recent 'May Version Update' Akihiko_Matsui: "Esuna, which we’ve elected to give a revamp to bring it closer to the way that Esuna functions in other FINAL FANTASY titles"

Anyone have any ideas on this?
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By Nariont 2019-04-25 04:53:43  
Remove all, or remove 1 status effect so might just be making it an erase+na and scrapping you needing to be hit by it
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By Ruaumoko 2019-04-25 06:00:11  
Hmmm.. this could be a very good update.

Esuna in past games has just removed pretty much all status ailments from the person it is cast on, the White Mage has not needed to have the ailment on themselves for it to work either.

If they're doing this exact thing to the current Esuna then with Afflatus Solace it'll become an AoE Na-spell even without Yagrush, AoE Erase under Solace will still need Yagrush. Afflatus Misery is where this could get bonkers. With the Su5 club Esuna under Misery will clear 5 ailments from everyone in range in one shot, even if the White Mage doesn't have said ailments. That includes Erase and Na-spells. That's freaking nuts.
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By Shiva.Arislan 2019-04-25 06:34:22  
My guess is single target, removes x number of ailments, regardless of what on the caster.
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By Lili 2019-04-25 06:34:39  
Ruaumoko said: »
That's freaking nuts.

I honestly doubt that's the direction they'll go. It'd significantly reduce the allure of making Yagrush D:
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By Shiva.Xelltrix 2019-04-25 06:54:18  
Single target and removes one ailment would be nice. And it would increase the allure of Cleric/Piety Wand, which I may need to pick up from now... I would have suggested Cleanse as a new spell if I didn't already know they claimed to have run out of spell slots. Changing Esuna instead would definitely be preferable. Maybe it will be AoE in Misery form so that non-Yagrush owners still have help with AoE statuses.
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By Nariont 2019-04-25 07:09:07  
Any guesses what theyll replace pro/shellra5 merits now that its going into scroll form?
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By Asura.Meliorah 2019-04-25 07:33:38  
Shellra & Protectra effect to augment all tiers of the spell. I wonder why they decieded to move it from merits to scroll.. I don't suppose they intend to add Protect 6 and Shell 6.
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