Animator's Workshop: A Puppetmaster's Guide 2.0

We do still lack a PDT waist...

Also, worth remembering that Umbra Cape's effect is doubled at night (18:00-06:00), so that's massive (PDT-12%) for nighttime sets. I usually hate bothering with time of day setups, as I use manual macros instead of GS/Lua, but this is one piece where it's probably worth it.

A couple other options:
* Qaaxo legs C path are PDT-5%, still best in slot for PUP (though Otronif+1 can get both PDT and MDT augments).
* Vrikodara Jupon if you happen to have it has PDT-3%, same DEF as Otronif+1, and better MDB and MEva. It's what I use for PUP, as I never bothered getting a great Otro+1 body. Still annoying we can't use Emet+1, but oh well.


Just a tip, but when spreadsheeting out new gear I'd strongly suggest trying to add some mobs with more current stats to better reflect current higher level content like SR, Escha NMs, and high end CP mobs.

I added some to my MNK spreadsheet as shown below, and found some real differences from optimizing for stuff like Tojil or mobs that are super low end fodder in today's game (for instance, found Fleshcarvers to perform REALLY well on high end mobs with realistic buffs):

Soundsplitter Bat (credit to Skudo in the DNC forums, used in his updated DNC SS)
Level: 123
Level correction: No
Defense: 1030
Eva: 1010
Agi/VIT/INT: 210

Unity NM (rough estimate for lv. 125)
Level: 125
Level correction: No
Defense: 1060
Evasion: 1025
AGI/VIT/INT: 220

Sinister Reign (average estimate across rounds 1-3)
Level: 130
Level correction: No
Defense: 1300
Evasion: 1175
AGI/VIT/INT: 240

Also, separate double post for a question:

Has anyone actually seen above Automaton:DT-3% on Ohrmazd? I've thrown a LOT of Learforbs at it, seen PDT-5% but never full DT above the -3% I already have. Wondering if BG list is inaccurate, it seems possible to me given that it wouldn't be surprising if DT- has a lower cap than PDT-.

I'd suggest Midnights D path for most people, but as I already have Ohrmazd with pet augments that are quite simlar (Pet: DT-3%, Acc/Racc+20, STR/DEX/VIT+15) I'm just gonna stick with it. If I can make that DT- even BETTER though... I'll keep trying Leafs lol.

I also occasionally macro KKK into maneuvers solely for overload prevention purposes if I'm not engaging myself.

I've been loving my maxed Samnuha Tights.

Are the tiger pants really better for TP?

And Rao for Pummel? Hmm.

I just capped PDT on Otronif +1 in the Skirmish event so I'm just going to use that for now.

For spreadsheeting, yeah, higher targets and realistic buffs are useful, but not particularly "fun" or reflective of how I use my PUP, though. So I did plug in my high accuracy sets in, changed buffs around, and added in a 130 target. Assuming enough accuracy buffs, I get AM3 KKK creaming Fleshcarvers and Denounements (without Throat Stab effect) beating -carvers as well, by about 50 dps.

Rao Haidate +1 Path B have a whopping 53 STR and 41 attack. That's pretty good for SP, though I'm not sure it's the best (that's why I put that that set needs work).

Oh yeah, I didn't mean to imply that AM3 KKK weren't still the clear winner for PUP. Fleshcarvers were just an example that was interesting to me; people were really underestimating them because of low damage, and if you went by spreadsheeting for something like Tojil or Kamihr Raaz, they didn't look very impressive there either. Once you bump it up to current high end content though, the story can get quite different.

For MNK, when I looked last month (before Denouements), I got Fleshcarvers even beating Glazfaust and Chastisers on very high end content with realistic buffs. PUP has a much stronger mythic than MNK though, we take advantage of the huge MA+50, they boost our already best WS, and AM3 even helps more when using SS/VE due to it also affecting automaton.

Given the higher end (and high level) CP mobs just added this month though, I do think it's becoming a bit more practical to think about PUP actually meleeing stuff of consequence. For things like Escha/SR NMs, I'd still think PUP's best niche is tanking with automaton, so master gear is pretty irrelevant.


I also have a hard time seeing Samnuha with max/near augments ever losing to Ta'lab Trousers. Breaking it down, the difference between the two max pieces is:
Samnuha: STR+19 DEX+16 DA+3 Stp+7, versus
Ta'lab: Atk+15 Crit Rate+5

Seems like no contest, really. And don't forget that the STR DEX attributes on Samnuha also affect attack, accuracy, and crit rate.

Rao for WS, on the other hand, yeah, head and legs on the STR augment path have just phenomenal amounts of STR. Like Saffiyah, I haven't fully worked out the ideal WS set but I'd definitely expect Rao to be near the top in those slots.

I'm still doing adjustments. Forgot about Samnuha. They do beat Ta'lab for TP, I did a MNK spreadsheet yesterday and they were the clear winner (should be for PUP too). Regarding Rao+1 versus other options, a lot of it will depend on accuracy. Ta'lab are excellent and offer some accuracy plus a lot of crit rate.

Ryuo Tekko +1 are incredible too for both TP and Stringing Pummel across all accuracy tiers. That and Ryuo Domaru +1 are probably going to be on my wish list, since I can use them on SAM and MNK as well.

What augments should I go after for Stringing Pummel on a Taeon set? This is a pure WS set and not a hybrid.

I can't decided if critical hit rate takes priority over triple attack.

Do you have the option of going after other gear for Stringing Pummel? You REALLY want them dusk augments to make Taeon good for Stringing Pummel, otherwise the native amounts of STR/VIT on them kinda suck. While the triple attack is super awesome and probably spreadsheets higher, when it doesn't activate it ain't doing ***for you. You'll probably get more reliable results out of critical hit rate, but Triple attack will have a higher possible damage.
I personally hate how many sets of Taeon I have at the moment. They fill so many niche roles that I can't accomplish with any other piece of gear. I dunno how worthwhile it is to try to make a stringing pummel set out of Taeon with the cost associated at this point, unless you can't get other things.

Edit: It's worth mentioning that with the absolutely insane amounts of STR you can stack now, my Victory Smite is basically on par with my Stringing Pummel. Stacking both STR and VIT is kinda a *** on PUP, and ideally you want to focus on STR anyway. V.smite is straight up 80%STR mod. Also it will skillchain with Armor Shatterer, and it will make double light off of whatever it is Seimh uses that makes light after Bone Crusher. I've been getting really fantastic results out of it.

Hey are you still making a tanking write up or is that DOA?

Wow. Cool. I haven't been to that thread yet and I didn't see. Thanks.

For Taeon, crit damage/attack and acc/TA augments are the way to go. Or str/attack and acc/TA, depending on slot and what other pieces you have access to. Either way you can get double-duty out of these augments for both TP and WS. Or, you say you want pure WS Taeon pieces, then do crit damage/crit rate/attack and acc.

If you go back a page, I posted a recent Stringing Pummel ideal set. It uses no Taeon pieces but it's probably best or close to best possible, and some of those pieces do double duty as TP pieces. Taeon SP set, even best augments, is behind the set I posted by 15% or so.

what are our options sans abjurations for TP at this point? Samnuha tights and Rawhide Vest both seem great, but are we still stuck rocking out Taeon otherwise until some Ryuo pieces are acquired?

I feel so. For general purposes I'm still using a TA Taeon in Head/Hands/Feet slots for TP.

In some set ups I use Naga Feet (+3 DA and high accuracy and auto boost) but its not really an improvement, my Taeon is just +24 ATK so I needed an accuracy option.

I made some minor changes to these sets.

Is anyone able to just update the front page gear sets for people so they don't have to scroll through pages of stuff for the latest gearsets?

Quite obvious that the OP gave up on this..

I could update them, but I won't. Two reasons.

We're getting the last major update in less than two weeks, and that will likely make changes to the optimal sets.

After the last update comes out, I'm going to add a DDing section to my current guide. A while back the maker of this one gave me access, but after looking it over I think it will be easier for me to add to my guide in my style rather than update this one. There are a few other collaborators though, perhaps someone else is willing to update this one.

I'm currently of the same mind as Trulusia, and my lack of playing over the past few months means I don't have near enough knowledge of current sets to make a judgement call on what does or doesn't belong.

That said this thread has always been rather good about keeping relevant sets somewhere near the last few pages and even if that's not true, with the game closing in on its final stretch being unable to make judgement calls or modify spreadsheets to determine gear on your own is going to hurt you as guide makers slowly begin to lose interest/die off.

As a side note: I feel these threads took an odd turn. People take their gear sets far too seriously when in reality these guides should not be so much giving straight gear advice but rather teaching you how a job works and invoking onto readers how to play the job and then from there helping to teach them what kind of stats they should favor in specific situations and slowly understanding gearsets as they progress.

Its the last major update, I doubt with a new area coming it'll be the last "update", as in job adjustments, new gear, etc. They wouldn't be making the new R/E/M type gear if this was the last update ever.

Irrespective, I agree with waiting until the update. I ask since many people look at the gear sets on here as a guide of what to aim for endgame. Personally, Since I came back in april from a 3 (?) year break, the huge amounts of stat-puke gear threw everything off for me. Pre-SoA days were rather easy to keep up with what gear was useful and what wasnt, but now with everything out, especially with augments thrown in, its a clusterfuck.

Im sure there are others returning pups in the same boat, as well as new pups who dont know wtf they're doing.

Heavy work load. sorry to everyone i havent been able to update, mostly due to not knowing where to change things. i agree it should probably move over to version 3.0 but the final timing has been constantly looming.

a major thing about the guides in general is they foster a constant conversation in one thread that evolves and is always more useful than the OP. we never had more more than 2 threads like that in the pup forum, so in a way, this is successful.

I've reached out for collaboration in the past, but real life precedence as well as other factors have proven to be issues.

I do apologize for not updating, but hopefully if i can get some research done, it will get some new relevant content in nov post update.

I think the large amount of diversity in gear is why I feel the need to write my guide the way that I do. I don't care much about telling people how to play, because I have no proof what I am doing is the best way. I think it's better that people understand the mechanics of PUP, as it's the most mechanically intensive job to play in the game.

But to be honest, I don't think what I provide will work for a lot of people. I think guides like this one are important, as everyone is different. Some people don't want to read and learn mechanics and work things out, it's just not worth their time. I don't blame them, either. In the majority of situations, it probably isn't. A more clear but guide like this one works better for people like that, so I think we need both.

To be honest, I'd like to see more people playing PUP, but I just don't think it's realistic. The job is very difficult to play well, and it NEEDS it's 1200JP gift to just get on the level a lot of other jobs are one at 100JP. Gearing is also much harder. Take Monk, for example since they both share teh same primary weapon. Your only particular worry when playing Monk is acting as a DD. Therefor, you pick the weapon best for the job. You MIGHT carry three different weapons around. Monk has access to better DD gear than PUP, period. It's supposed to. It's a dedicated job.

PUP isn't anything. In a game full of Sandboxing, PUP is tied for MOST diverse job. The only other thing on it's level is Red Mage(Third would be BLU), which is probably better than PUP in the majority of roles that PUP can fill. I would say that at 1200JP, PUP is the better tank, skillchainer and ranged damage dealer, and Red Mage is better at everything else. Also, Red Mage can act as support in ways that are much harder to accomplish for PUP.

Because of this, PUP is going to continue to seem weak. The amount of skill/time/gear it takes to get down each aspect of PUP could be better spent devoting that same time/energy to another job that specializes in whatever role you need(Except Tanking, PUP is a goddamn Nightmare of a tank for the mobs of Vana'diel). Approaching the end of the age for FFXI means that most likely we are looking at what the final incarnation of PUP is going to look like. Maybe 2100JP will radically improve/change the job, but I very much doubt it.

The particular niche of PUP is to be able to change Automatons and gear out on the fly to whatever the party needs. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely make use of this and have been known to analyze situations and make changes in the middle of a fight, or between bosses or whatever. The problem here is that the benefit for being able to do so is very small. Why carry a whole swiss army knife when the only tools you need are a spoon, a knife a Philips head? Especially when the game is at a point now where you are going to know what tool you need before you start, and at worst case, a fight only takes 15 minutes anyway. If you fail something, it doesn't even matter that much. It doesn't take a whole linkshell to make a pop anymore, it takes one person a few hours. Fail a fight? You probably have another pop. Just have someone job change and go again.

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely love Puppetmaster. It's BY FAR my favorite job. But I don't love it because I think it's powerful. It helps me get lost in the game I love so much. I love how many aspects of the game I can get involved in with PUP. I know all too well it isn't one of the better jobs, but I still choose to play it. I think some people are lucky that the job they love can do incredible things in there own department.

But I hope that other people like me will pop up and start trying to do things on jobs we don't see, even though the jobs aren't as good. I saw a video not too long ago on Youtube that I randomly stumbled upon that had a Dark Knight magic bursting a Drain 3 for 9999, giving him 9999hp. I thought that was super cool, and it made me wonder what else Dark Knight could do that I wasn't aware of. Or Warrior, or Dragoon, or Monk.

But I don't think it's going to happen. I think that after november, we are going to reach a point where updating the guides won't mean much, because there will only be a handful of people left playing these jobs, PUP included.

I'm going to keep updating my guide for as long as I feel it makes sense to do so. I hope the OP of this guide does the same thing, but I think Spathaian really hit the nail on the head about guide makers falling off. I find myself compiling information for my guide, and starting to work on the DD section, but I wonder who am I really helping at this point? I'm pretty much always just talking to the same people, answering the same questions.

So yeah, I realize that the guides probably aren't updated as much as they should be. But it's hard to motivate yourself to the task when you aren't sure it's even going to help anyone. After the November update, I think the main job guides will be kept up to date, but I think jobs like PUP are going to be much harder to be kept up.

/rant. Sorry for the word vomit.

TL;DR: PUP guides are hard to keep up to date, and I don't think the job is worthwhile for most people. Not sure how useful the guides even are anymore. Will update after the 11th for a while though.

I don't want to happen to PUP what has happened to BST. I believe PUP's on the verge of being OP and I'm worried that if SE pushes it much farther, it'll become the next bandwagon job and end up getting nerfed back to an unacceptable level.

I'm pretty happy with where the job is now and hope that SE only makes minor tweaks with this last big update.

i disagree i think the more popular the job the more likely a nerf

its a Good DD and tank now i would like to see the other frame get a boost tho BLM is completely unusable at all.

i think all jobs can be good but people dont want to try anymore they want shoot shoot WS and thats it.

thats why rng gotten so popular people dont even want to try

one the reasons i refuse to lvl it

i View it liek this there nothing wrong with being OP or "brreaking the game" if you will as long as it takes work to achive said power thats the diff as long as its a i got max jps etc etc and worked hard to get gear they deserve to have that power..... just handed out thats a whole other ball game

Are there any attachments you can't get off of the AH?

Do you mean are any rare/ex? No. All of them can be sold.

Also, Yoyoroon and Rararoon sell every attachment in the game. Usually cheaper on AH if you can find them though.

Hey I think your guide is really good I just started pup i like it a lot i hope you keep at it

I am a total lover of guides that post sets.... that being said I love the nin form. not only do they have a this is the best sets he has a this is the best without going balls deep into the game again. I loved my time of 60+ hours playing.... But these days I like to jump on get some gear / do some grinding and call it a day. I have most jobs geared pretty darn good so I am not really what I like to call a casual but my play time kinda is. I just don't see me building up +1 sets of godly gear.

I kinda feel like the only way we see nerfs is for excessively strong OFFENSIVE ability, which I simply can't see PUP getting. Significant nerfs have generally been offense-based, from the old school RNG distance nerf, to the more recent Rudra and BST changes (and even the non-implemented RDM SC enhancing stuff). And if we're looking at who to target for offensive nerfs there are so many higher visibility targets than PUP: BLU, DNC, RNG, SCH, BLM, even BST is still really powerful (though seems adjusted enough to scare off the bandwagon).

Now, PUP has become absurd defensively but it's used so rarely by the community at large that it's not to the point of abuse, and because it's not contributing to BIG DAMAGE NUMBERS I don't particularly worry about nerfs. The incoming enmity changes to address the one glaring weakness get me really excited. Mainly because they enhance a true niche that PUP has lacked forever (it's Tru's Swiss Army Knife discussion... we're finally able to gear as a single purpose tool that's better than most jobs, which we've not really been able to say until 2015).


That whole post was so well put, I'm totally with you. While every job needs gear, so much of PUP is more about getting the mechanics and techniques.

PUP and BLU remind me of each other a lot in that regard. Each one has a lot of players who have adequate gear but just perform really badly because they don't know how to use the job and both jobs have a pretty high requirement for knowing game mechanics. For BLU, it's setting correct traits/spells, knowing not to bother with casting instead of swinging those swords, realizing that it's an entirely different set of spells you want to set if you're gearing for nuke/AoE damage, using enough DW to cap delay and not go over, etc. For PUP it's setting the right frame/attachments, knowing what maneuvers to use and having a feel for when to switch them up, etc.

Even when I occasionally think you're insane (PUP/BLU tanking!), seeing WHY you do a certain thing and explaining the mechanical reasons behind it and why it works with a particular party setup is a useful discussion that goes further than "wear this gear and use fire maneuvers".

Still, with the major updates coming to a close it's surely going to get easier to suggest specific sets for specific tasks. Mainly that's gonna come down to a tanking set (pet focused) or DD set (mostly master focused), with attachment loadouts for each. Attachment setups can vary pretty substantially though, and with so much augmented gear it also becomes a bit get burdensome to list sets. Also kinda tough to account for things like 119 Abjuration+1 gear, which can often be best in slot but it's so rare that sticking it in a guide as the "ideal" set isn't terribly helpful to people trying to learn.

At any rate, I'll be glad to contribute to the coming conversation. As someone who has identified as a PUP "main" since the day ToAU released (even in the dark periods where I barely touched the job for months on end), it's nice to see the job in a much better place as we near the end of new content.