The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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By Anna Ruthven 2017-10-01 17:55:58  
No one cares about boys, this isn't the site to ask for or about them. Back to WAR discussion please.
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By Taint 2017-10-01 17:58:57  
1/3 (35%) of status effects are being flat resisted in an Arke build plus staunch. It comes down to RNG. (Doesn't everything)

The DPS advatangr may or may not be worth the dice roll but you can't flat out say Arke has zero defensive stats.

Saevel is a wealth of knowledge but he has little Arke experience (tried the body for a bit). If someone gave him a plus 1 set he'd join the Arke side I promise :p
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-01 18:12:18  
Taint said: »
1/3 (35%) of status effects are being flat resisted in an Arke build plus staunch. It comes down to RNG. (Doesn't everything)

The DPS advatangr may or may not be worth the dice roll but you can't flat out say Arke has zero defensive stats.

Saevel is a wealth of knowledge but he has little Arke experience (tried the body for a bit). If someone gave him a plus 1 set he'd join the Arke side I promise :p

35% vs 95% for things like Amnesia / Stun / Petrify / ect.

This is because you stack barspells with MEVD to lockout one or two extremely annoying status ailments.

Staunch + Hearty is 15% resistance alone, plus five gear slots is 300~330 magic evasion which when stacked with all other sources is enough to overpower high level NM's magic accuracy. This is incredibly important for stuff like Amnesia, Terror, Stun, Petrify and Paralyze as those all can hurt your DPS pretty badly. Arke prevents you from locking out one or two very bad status ailments which is pretty important. Go through the list of all the dangerous NM's and count the number of TP moves that do status ailments that either kill you or severely nerf your damage.
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-01 18:29:11  
Why not use these in a joint effort of Arke/+1 and Songs?
Also it is viable for those with lower number base who can not bring 2~3 bards, Cor and 2~3 geo to events.

I get the M.evasion is an Issue. But even with 300+ you still get hit with terror and other status effects. So Mixing in some Flat out resist on top of buffs would do wonders for those who have had issues before.

It is an Alternative to Optimal not a replacement.
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By Taint 2017-10-01 18:31:03  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Taint said: »
1/3 (35%) of status effects are being flat resisted in an Arke build plus staunch. It comes down to RNG. (Doesn't everything)

The DPS advatangr may or may not be worth the dice roll but you can't flat out say Arke has zero defensive stats.

Saevel is a wealth of knowledge but he has little Arke experience (tried the body for a bit). If someone gave him a plus 1 set he'd join the Arke side I promise :p

35% vs 95% for things like Amnesia / Stun / Petrify / ect.

This is because you stack barspells with MEVD to lockout one or two extremely annoying status ailments.

Staunch + Hearty is 15% resistance alone, plus five gear slots is 300~330 magic evasion which when stacked with all other sources is enough to overpower high level NM's magic accuracy. This is incredibly important for stuff like Amnesia, Terror, Stun, Petrify and Paralyze as those all can hurt your DPS pretty badly.


I guess I'm missing something. When buffed to high hell like WOC I'm in my standard TP set. When I'm pulling an Omen pack I'm in full Arke. When I'm TPing an Omen boss I'm in TP gear. If I take hate I'm in Arke or sauveran+1 depending on the situation.

High lvl battlefields Arke, SR Arke, cleaving Arke.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-01 18:46:48  
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Why not use these in a joint effort of Arke/+1 and Songs?
Also it is viable for those with lower number base who can not bring 2~3 bards, Cor and 2~3 geo to events.

I get the M.evasion is an Issue. But even with 300+ you still get hit with terror and other status effects. So Mixing in some Flat out resist on top of buffs would do wonders for those who have had issues before.

It is an Alternative to Optimal not a replacement.

Barpells are +230 magic evasion, which is usually sufficient on anything not CL145+. NM's magic accuracy scaling isn't nearly as horrific as their melee accuracy, so we can actually overpower it if we target things. You ~really~ notice this when tanking stuff on RUN. On CL145+ you really need to stack with carols. So with just regular gear and barfire + baramnesia, I can block out amnesia or related status ailment from everything up to T3 Escha NM's. The moment I use Arke for -DT Amnesia starts landing. This applies to all sorts of status debuffs.

I'm getting the impression you guys don't stack barspells appropriately, or aren't noticing it happening because that ***is super important. In comparison an Idris Vex / Attunment is worth 125 magic evasion each. So going full Arke your throwing away 300+ magic evasion that you can easily get on current -DT gear. Thus any benefit from the TP gain is immediately countered by the additional status ailments. Unless the target doesn't have any status ailments to worry about, which is pretty damn rare.
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By Blazed1979 2017-10-02 13:14:42  
Taint said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Taint said: »
1/3 (35%) of status effects are being flat resisted in an Arke build plus staunch. It comes down to RNG. (Doesn't everything)

The DPS advatangr may or may not be worth the dice roll but you can't flat out say Arke has zero defensive stats.

Saevel is a wealth of knowledge but he has little Arke experience (tried the body for a bit). If someone gave him a plus 1 set he'd join the Arke side I promise :p

35% vs 95% for things like Amnesia / Stun / Petrify / ect.

This is because you stack barspells with MEVD to lockout one or two extremely annoying status ailments.

Staunch + Hearty is 15% resistance alone, plus five gear slots is 300~330 magic evasion which when stacked with all other sources is enough to overpower high level NM's magic accuracy. This is incredibly important for stuff like Amnesia, Terror, Stun, Petrify and Paralyze as those all can hurt your DPS pretty badly.


I guess I'm missing something. When buffed to high hell like WOC I'm in my standard TP set. When I'm pulling an Omen pack I'm in full Arke. When I'm TPing an Omen boss I'm in TP gear. If I take hate I'm in Arke or sauveran+1 depending on the situation.

High lvl battlefields Arke, SR Arke, cleaving Arke.
I'd come back to game to play with you. God knows it would be interesting competing against you again in dmg as a heavy dps like VW days.
Let me know if you guys have open spots for me and my mules.
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By Blazed1979 2017-10-02 13:19:07  
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Why not use these in a joint effort of Arke/+1 and Songs?
plenty of ghorn/daur 5 song BRDs around. Before I took a break we had at least 4x Ghorn carols up at all times from an outside brd.
Maybe I'll do a vid of just how *** insane full arke+1 war is in omen. Fell cleave animation overlaps and none stop skillchains on 10+ targets. add in sam roll and ***just gets ridiculous.
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-02 13:25:45  
Blazed1979 said: »
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Why not use these in a joint effort of Arke/+1 and Songs?
plenty of ghorn/daur 5 song BRDs around. Before I took a break we had at least 4x Ghorn carols up at all times from an outside brd.
Maybe I'll do a vid of just how *** insane full arke+1 war is in omen. Fell cleave animation overlaps and none stop skillchains on 10+ targets. add in sam roll and ***just gets ridiculous.
Do it, Id love to see that.
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By Blazed1979 2017-10-02 13:28:49  
might - need to re-activate primex.
 
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By Blazed1979 2017-10-02 13:45:48  
cool unless you're darksaiko, in which case; lol.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-02 20:32:52  
Blazed1979 said: »
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Why not use these in a joint effort of Arke/+1 and Songs?
plenty of ghorn/daur 5 song BRDs around. Before I took a break we had at least 4x Ghorn carols up at all times from an outside brd.
Maybe I'll do a vid of just how *** insane full arke+1 war is in omen. Fell cleave animation overlaps and none stop skillchains on 10+ targets. add in sam roll and ***just gets ridiculous.


Full set of NQ Arke is 18 million gil on Asura, full set of HQ is bazillion gil.

That's very pricey for a fell cleave set, and SC's don't work that way, only the primary target gets the SC effect, same with MB effects. With retaliation WAR can already get over 1000TP during the WS animation and be able to fire off them ever 2~3 seconds. The only thing I see it adding is the ability to get TP while not engaged, since retaliation can't proc then. So I'll give you fell cleave pulling sets, pricey but some people already have everything else so might as well.

As for the original quote of mixing, that's counter productive unless your using BRD swaps for mid tier stuff. Normally you won't have carols on for T2~3 reisen mobs so it's only Barspells and MEVD stacking which is enough to get you into consistent resist territory. Graduating to T4's requires carols, which should be used during BRD swaps to lock out one or two dangerous status ailments to maximize damage, frequently it's going to be Amnesia, Stun or Petrify, maybe Paralyze if it has a gigantic range.
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By Blazed1979 2017-10-03 10:43:29  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Why not use these in a joint effort of Arke/+1 and Songs?
plenty of ghorn/daur 5 song BRDs around. Before I took a break we had at least 4x Ghorn carols up at all times from an outside brd.
Maybe I'll do a vid of just how *** insane full arke+1 war is in omen. Fell cleave animation overlaps and none stop skillchains on 10+ targets. add in sam roll and ***just gets ridiculous.


Full set of NQ Arke is 18 million gil on Asura, full set of HQ is bazillion gil.

That's very pricey for a fell cleave set, and SC's don't work that way, only the primary target gets the SC effect, same with MB effects. With retaliation WAR can already get over 1000TP during the WS animation and be able to fire off them ever 2~3 seconds. The only thing I see it adding is the ability to get TP while not engaged, since retaliation can't proc then. So I'll give you fell cleave pulling sets, pricey but some people already have everything else so might as well.
point taken, but I get around that by never being locked on, lining things up, and tabing between fell cleaves. I'm the biggest retaliation junky. We've had discussions in the past about why i liked retaliation over warcry. This set isn't 2-3 seconds for 1000 tp. its unload tp as fast as you can, usually in the high 1800-2200 mark due to animation delay, every 2 seconds, consistently.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-03 12:55:39  
Blazed1979 said: »
its unload tp as fast as you can,

That's where the 2~3 seconds came from, it's the animation delay not the TP gain that is the limit.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Fell_Cleave

FC's damage doesn't scale with TP, only it's Area of Effect. Since your cleaving and everything is already withing a 7 foot range, extra TP past 1000 is wasted on cleave.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Cataclysm

Cataclysm is the AoE ability WAR gets that has great damage scaling with TP. Use cloudsplitter set with +Dark Damage swaps and you can do pretty silly things with it.
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By Blazed1979 2017-10-04 10:32:58  
DirectX said: »
Was he on Hades? Rings a bell.
Redge?
Also Sav, does zeroJa help with that?
thanks for tip on Axe, been thinking inside the box. If I do re-activate account, I will most def try it.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-04 11:18:42  
JAzero will let you do an action without having to wait for animations to finish. You are still limited by the 2s global lockout and there could be another .5 ~ 1s wait based on server lag. And thus the realistic lower bound on action apeed is 2~3 seconds.

Cataclysm is a staff magic ws that deals dark elemental damage aoe. It's really strong too.
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2017-10-04 11:56:02  
Meh Deleted Realized it came of sounding rude and that is never my intent, and the question i was getting at was answered and i overlooked it.
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By Blazed1979 2017-10-05 14:27:55  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Cataclysm is a staff magic ws that deals dark elemental damage aoe. It's really strong too.
yeah used to use it to aoe brew burn ***down in abyssea as mnk.
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By olson2189 2017-10-10 13:24:05  
Is Moten's War DPS spreadsheet linked in the OP up to date? If not, does anyone have an up-to-date version?


Thanks
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-10-11 17:53:58  
If the set bonus on all Flamma +2 scales +8 STR/DEX/VIT per piece, we might see some more Argosy +1 being dethroned in situations attack is capped.

Flamma Zucchetto +2 is obviously BiS for TP, but should also be our new best Reso/Upheaval head when attack is capped.

Flamma Ring is an upgrade to Petrov for TP. Could also dethrone Regal Ring due to the extra 5 STP at the cost of 2 STR/DEX/VIT.

Flamma Gambieras +2 fall short of beating Pummeler +3 for TP, but are better than Pummeler +2 and should beat nearly all Valorous options. Should be clear winner for Reso in attack capped situations, having 15 more STR and 2 more STP than Pummerler +3 at the cost of 3 DA.

I'd wait to upgrade Hands/Body/Legs, but they seem to have potential to replace Argosy for Reso in attack capped situations. You lose some multi-attack, but gain STR/DEX and STP, so it should be somewhat close.

At the very least good for situations when it's too dangerous to risk the massive hit to meva from Argosy.
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-10-11 19:36:29  
Best reso should be:

W/ 11 fighters roll:

Flamma +2: Head/Body/Feet
Argosy +1: Hands/Legs

^ puts you at exactly 100 DA w/ cessance, 10 DA mantle

W/o fighters roll:

Flamma +2: Head/Feet
Argosy +1: Body/Hands/Legs.

Argosy body +1 is debatable because it's essentially 7 DA vs 11 STR 3 STP after factoring in set bonuses.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-11 19:38:08  
Wait it's +8 STR/DEX/VIT per piece because originally it looked to be +4 per piece as you got the +8 from having two equipped.

Hands / Body / Legs won't replace HQ Argosy due to lacking DA and considering the augments you get from HQ Argosy. Flamma +2 head is definitely a monster, especially as Argosy head would be augmented on the DEX path to get the +3 DA and accuracy.

HQ Argosy Body

STR 46
DA +7
Store TP +6

Flamma Body +2

STR +43 (+set)
Store TP +9

HQ Argosy Legs

STR 55
DA +6
Store TP +6

Flamma Legs +2
STR 53 (+Bonus)
Store TP +8

HQ Argosy Hands
STR +39
DA +5

Flamma Hands +2
STR 23 (+bonus)
Store TP +6

Definitely replace HQ Argosy feet for DRK's though.

Flamma +2 is an awesome set, not better then HQ Argosy but damn close enough. Those hands are epic for crit WS's.
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-10-11 19:47:13  
Flamma +2 supposedly gave +16 stats after 3 pieces, meaning the progression should be 0/8/16/24/32/40. If it doesn't then disregard my post
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-10-11 19:54:45  
My guess is Argosys hands, at least one other Argosys piece from body/legs, and the rest flamma.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-11 19:57:19  
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
Flamma +2 supposedly gave +16 stats after 3 pieces, meaning the progression should be 0/8/16/24/32/40. If it doesn't then disregard my post

That's not how set bonus's work.

The bonus from the first piece is actually the combination of both the pieces.

Example Argosy

0/4/2/2/2 = 10 total

Each piece gives +2, but you only get credit from the first two. So far the only person I know that has 2 of the Flamma +2 gets +8 STR/VIT/DEX when having them both on, thus +4 each.

Should be
0/8/4/4/4 = 20 for five pieces (add another rank for ring).
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-10-11 19:59:38  
It was confirmed it goes up to 16 with 3 in the update thread:

Odin.Geriond said: »
Set Bonus:
1 Piece: +0
2 Pieces: +8
3 Pieces: +16
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-11 20:04:02  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
It was confirmed it goes up to 16 with 3 in the update thread:

Odin.Geriond said: »
Set Bonus:
1 Piece: +0
2 Pieces: +8
3 Pieces: +16

Yeah I'm going to wait for more confirmation them him. The person who I know has already capped them reports otherwise so we'll see how ***shakes out.
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-10-11 20:07:33  


factors in set bonuses
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