The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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2010-06-21
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-03-22 08:47:30  
K123 said: »
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Side note: you can make these comparisons yourself and then formulate an opinion about the merits of both sets.
I did, and I deciced my set is better.

Last I checked PDL was a DPS stat. 1% DA to make 100% is good too.

OK then let me change my criticism:
You could seem a lot more informed and a lot less lazy if you posted your opinions about the differences rather than just asking for others' opinions all the time.

I guess if you want to swap 17 STP for 8 PDL, you should re-consider how much of WAR's damage comes from their white damage vs their WS damage. I think you'll find that your set does less damage overall.
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By Taint 2024-03-22 09:08:29  
Capping PDT doesn't matter in Sortie so I don't worry about it.

I also use his set but only when I need more defensive stats as stated in my post. (v25s, F Thunder etc) AF3 feet are also a great option and in my baseline set I just toggle to the posted set 99% of the time since its a great balance of DPS/DT/meva.
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-03-22 09:12:00  
Taint said: »
Capping PDT doesn't matter in Sortie so I don't worry about it.

Fair point, but with Shell V you already have capped MDT, so unless you're concerned about getting your Shell dispelled on a regular basis, DT-5 is just an inferior version of PDT-10, for any event.
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By K123 2024-03-22 09:34:01  
Taint said: »
Capping PDT doesn't matter in Sortie so I don't worry about it.

I also use his set but only when I need more defensive stats as stated in my post. (v25s, F Thunder etc) AF3 feet are also a great option and in my baseline set I just toggle to the posted set 99% of the time since its a great balance of DPS/DT/meva.
I err on safety granted the DPS difference would be quite small so just use this one set generally. 100% DA is important for me from an OCD perspective!
 Shiva.Myamoto
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By Shiva.Myamoto 2024-03-22 09:50:53  
There are multiple functional sets. For myself, I personally tend to use sakpata legs and af feet as the standard for my TP set. Sakpata legs more meva, still pdl and DA but also providing significant boost to DT that Boii legs does not, Allowing me to very comfortably use af feet. Only time I personally swap in Sakpata feet is if the goal is to cap Subtle Blow.

Also remember... "100%" DA isn't actually 100%.

This tends to be my standard TP set. 103% DA with Merits, significant STP and DT, capped SB with a reasonable auspice.
Couple flex spots depending on the goal and or weapon(s) I am using.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-03-22 10:14:12  
Shiva.Myamoto said: »
Also remember... "100%" DA isn't actually 100%.

Is there evidence of this? I don't think it has ever been discussed, published, proven that this is the case. I'm not saying that it's impossible since the way the game is made tends to cause these things to happen (particularly on newer gear pieces for things like SIRD) however I have never seen this quantified before.
 Shiva.Myamoto
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By Shiva.Myamoto 2024-03-22 10:25:58  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Shiva.Myamoto said: »
Also remember... "100%" DA isn't actually 100%.

Is there evidence of this? I don't think it has ever been discussed, published, proven that this is the case. I'm not saying that it's impossible since the way the game is made tends to cause these things to happen (particularly on newer gear pieces for things like SIRD) however I have never seen this quantified before.

I was under the impression that it behaves like every value in this game /1024. However I have not personally confirmed this to be the case for DA.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-03-22 10:32:40  
So being /1024 doesn't mean that the value of each piece of gear doesn't necessarily match what's shown (or more accurately, it doesnt mean youre getting less than what is shown). In the case of SIRD they for some reason decided to increase the accuracy of the values on new (well, new, has been like 10 years now) SIRD gear which ended up causing individual pieces to give fractions less of the % listed in the item description which leads to needing "more than" 100% to cap. In reality you still just need 100%, it just isn't displayed accurately in the item description. This can also be observed in Fast Cast gear where not every piece of gear with the same % of FC is necessarily giving the same exact amount. For SIRD though I believe it was done because they wanted fractional values to use with the natural SIRD given by skill value but that's impossible to ever know. For haste it may have something to do with interactions with Slow and being able to go below 0, etc.

For DA I have never seen evidence of the same being true and in the end it is a much more simple number without the same additional variables that SIRD and Haste have. Again I'm not saying it's impossible, but I've never seen it proven.

This wouldn't be difficult to test, though to verify that every single piece of gear gives its described amount of DA would be time consuming. Ultimately the easiest thing would be to parse or eyeball a few hundred attack rounds with exactly 100% DA in modern gear sets and see if you fail to DA at least one time to at least add some plausibility to whether or not DA gear has the same "problem" as SIRD.
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 Shiva.Myamoto
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By Shiva.Myamoto 2024-03-22 10:52:16  
I'll smack some stuff for a bit and remove 3% from my set and see. Wouldn't change my generic tp set anyhow lol maybe a couple merits.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-03-22 10:53:03  
Yeah it won't actually matter for just about anything, just something to know
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By Taint 2024-03-22 11:26:15  
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Taint said: »
Capping PDT doesn't matter in Sortie so I don't worry about it.

Fair point, but with Shell V you already have capped MDT, so unless you're concerned about getting your Shell dispelled on a regular basis, DT-5 is just an inferior version of PDT-10, for any event.


I use a meva cape for Sortie. Sorry all this is bleeding info from the last page. I don't use 1 set for everything.
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By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2024-03-22 11:33:08  
Taint said: »
I use a meva cape for Sortie. Sorry all this is bleeding info from the last page. I don't use 1 set for everything.

Not a bad idea, but god I don't want to make a 10th WAR cape ; ;
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-03-22 11:35:06  
Taint said: »
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Taint said: »
Capping PDT doesn't matter in Sortie so I don't worry about it.

Fair point, but with Shell V you already have capped MDT, so unless you're concerned about getting your Shell dispelled on a regular basis, DT-5 is just an inferior version of PDT-10, for any event.


I use a meva cape for Sortie. Sorry all this is bleeding info from the last page. I don't use 1 set for everything.

Sure, it wasn't clear which of the two you used in Sortie. I only brought it up because K123 was talking about his cape with -5 DT and you mentioned in your previous comments, when someone asked about your capes, that you have a DT (which I presume is DT-5) and a meva one. The DT one is, in my opinion, an inferior version of PDT-10. I can't think of any situation where a WAR will not be wearing at least 21 DT in their gear and there are very few, if any, situations where you won't have Shell V on. I think meva/PDT would be better choices for general use. IMO DT-5 is pretty much totally useless for 99.95% of situations on all jobs, as far as ambu capes go.
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 Shiva.Myamoto
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By Shiva.Myamoto 2024-03-22 12:16:51  
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
Taint said: »
I use a meva cape for Sortie. Sorry all this is bleeding info from the last page. I don't use 1 set for everything.

Not a bad idea, but god I don't want to make a 10th WAR cape ; ;

lol I am at 11 capes for WAR so far ; ;. With a couple niche ones still left to make that I would like.
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By Taint 2024-03-22 12:41:41  
DT covers breath damage which was always my tipping point for DT over PDT. I am under the assumption that shell doesn't effect breath damage and TP moves are much more dangerous from breath and magic then physical.

I don't think I currently use a single PDT cape but I'm always open to being wrong.
 Shiva.Myamoto
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By Shiva.Myamoto 2024-03-22 12:48:37  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Yeah it won't actually matter for just about anything, just something to know

For what it's worth, I smacked apex frogs for 25 minutes with a set having 100% DA (I simply removed Coiste from my tp set and used a lower magic haste value to clearly see seperate attack rounds). Within that 25 minutes of smacking frogs, I did not see any single attack rounds. Only DA. So probably safe to assume 100% DA is actually 100%.

I would find it unlikely that within 25 minutes of nothing but auto attacks that the ~2-3% chance of a single attack round happening in theory of not being 103% just simply did not occur.

My assumption of needing 102% appears to be wrong.
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-03-22 12:51:08  
Taint said: »
DT covers breath damage which was always my tipping point for DT over PDT. I am under the assumption that shell doesn't effect breath damage and TP moves are much more dangerous from breath and magic then physical.

This is a fair point but...is there any NM in modern endgame that does breath damage? Kirin in GF, maybe? I wouldn't build my DT sets based on .1% of the content, seems to me that physical damage is much more common and plenty of people's sets don't include 50% PDT (including the ones posted earlier). Even if you do have 50% PDT, you could remove some from another slot and make up for it in the cape slot, adding extra refresh, STP, meva, or whatever else in your other slots.
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 Shiva.Myamoto
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By Shiva.Myamoto 2024-03-22 12:53:26  
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Taint said: »
DT covers breath damage which was always my tipping point for DT over PDT. I am under the assumption that shell doesn't effect breath damage and TP moves are much more dangerous from breath and magic then physical.

This is a fair point but...is there any NM in modern endgame that does breath damage? Kirin in GF, maybe? I wouldn't build my DT sets based on .1% of the content, seems to me that physical damage is much more common and plenty of people's sets don't include 50% PDT (including the ones posted earlier). Even if you do have 50% PDT, you could remove some from another slot and make up for it in the cape slot, adding extra refresh, STP, meva, or whatever else in your other slots.

Fetters are breath damage if i recall. Something to consider potentially.
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By tallica 2024-03-22 13:02:02  
You sure DT covers breath damage? I thought it was different.
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By Nariont 2024-03-22 13:30:11  
DT covers all 3 forms of damage taken so far as im aware.

Looks like at least in older gear augmented mdt was working at bdt as well
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/52145/finally-releasing-this-addon-gearinfo/8/#3344200
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-03-22 13:47:40  
Shiva.Myamoto said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Yeah it won't actually matter for just about anything, just something to know

For what it's worth, I smacked apex frogs for 25 minutes with a set having 100% DA (I simply removed Coiste from my tp set and used a lower magic haste value to clearly see seperate attack rounds). Within that 25 minutes of smacking frogs, I did not see any single attack rounds. Only DA. So probably safe to assume 100% DA is actually 100%.

I would find it unlikely that within 25 minutes of nothing but auto attacks that the ~2-3% chance of a single attack round happening in theory of not being 103% just simply did not occur.

My assumption of needing 102% appears to be wrong.

Thanks for taking the time to confirm
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-03-22 16:57:29  
Shiva.Myamoto said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Yeah it won't actually matter for just about anything, just something to know

For what it's worth, I smacked apex frogs for 25 minutes with a set having 100% DA (I simply removed Coiste from my tp set and used a lower magic haste value to clearly see seperate attack rounds). Within that 25 minutes of smacking frogs, I did not see any single attack rounds. Only DA. So probably safe to assume 100% DA is actually 100%.

I would find it unlikely that within 25 minutes of nothing but auto attacks that the ~2-3% chance of a single attack round happening in theory of not being 103% just simply did not occur.

My assumption of needing 102% appears to be wrong.

Can you list which items you had on?

Previously myself and another WAR had exactly 100% worth, and had a few one hit attack rounds. It came out to 2~3% of the total. It might be a case of some pieces having slightly more or less then others. If +10% is 102/1024 then we can end up a few short, if it's 103/1024 then we'll be fine.

And yes every percentage in FFX is /1024, they be doing some old school binary magic on the servers to make multiplications and divisions cheaper CPU wise. It's stuff people did all the time on 80's and 90's consoles.
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By Godfry 2024-03-22 17:12:40  
Shiva.Myamoto said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Yeah it won't actually matter for just about anything, just something to know

For what it's worth, I smacked apex frogs for 25 minutes with a set having 100% DA (I simply removed Coiste from my tp set and used a lower magic haste value to clearly see seperate attack rounds). Within that 25 minutes of smacking frogs, I did not see any single attack rounds. Only DA. So probably safe to assume 100% DA is actually 100%.

I would find it unlikely that within 25 minutes of nothing but auto attacks that the ~2-3% chance of a single attack round happening in theory of not being 103% just simply did not occur.

My assumption of needing 102% appears to be wrong.

Good stuff. My experience with WAR has been that 100% DA means 100% DA. 99% DA means < 50% DA. lol
 Asura.Sabishii
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By Asura.Sabishii 2024-03-22 17:21:01  
Asura.Jenniferrr said: »
Apologies if this has already been covered but could folks post their Fimbulvetr sets? I briefly searched the forums and didn't see much except for the resolution setup with Helheim. Just stage three atm so testing is limited to sortie

Thanks!

I'm curious about that as well, I have a stage 4 Helheim, and I'm seeing it do less than my Tachi: Mumei on SAM (maybe because SAM gets TP way faster than 2 handed WAR does, making it easier to get over 1k TP, so MAYBE I should use /SAM instead of /DRG when wielding the greatsword for the extra store TP, meditate, etc.)?

This is what I'm using.

ItemSet 395213
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-03-22 17:25:27  
sets.Fimbulvetr = {
ammo="Knobkierrie",
head="Agoge mask +3",
neck="War. Beads +2",
ear1="Thrud Earring",
ear2="Moonshade earring",
body="Nyame mail",
hands="Boii mufflers +3",
ring1="Niqmaddu ring",
ring2="Karieyh ring +1",
back=STR_Back,
waist="Sailfi belt +1",
legs="Boii cuisses +3",
feet="Nyame sollerets"
}

STR_Back is just usual STR+30 WSD+10 cape.


What I've noticed is that you really don't want to WS under 1500 unless WC is up. It has very linear TP scaling so assuming you are properly buffed you can wait an extra attack round to hit 1500 or higher.

Use Niqmaddu ring over Sroda.
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By Taint 2024-03-22 17:50:16  
Asura.Sabishii said: »
Asura.Jenniferrr said: »
Apologies if this has already been covered but could folks post their Fimbulvetr sets? I briefly searched the forums and didn't see much except for the resolution setup with Helheim. Just stage three atm so testing is limited to sortie

Thanks!

I'm curious about that as well, I have a stage 4 Helheim, and I'm seeing it do less than my Tachi: Mumei on SAM (maybe because SAM gets TP way faster than 2 handed WAR does, making it easier to get over 1k TP, so MAYBE I should use /SAM instead of /DRG when wielding the greatsword for the extra store TP, meditate, etc.)?

This is what I'm using.

ItemSet 395213


I find Mumei and Fimb to be similar. WARs benefits are berserk, restraint, warcry, MS. I can get 99999 pretty easily on WAR with max support.

SAM I only get 99999 under Yaeg. SAM I also just spam WS which can lead to reduced damage in the basement due to WS wall.

I typically sub /DRG on SAM and /SAM on WAR.
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By tallica 2024-03-22 18:08:36  
Asura.Saevel said: »
sets.Fimbulvetr = {
ammo="Knobkierrie",
head="Agoge mask +3",
neck="War. Beads +2",
ear1="Thrud Earring",
ear2="Moonshade earring",
body="Nyame mail",
hands="Boii mufflers +3",
ring1="Niqmaddu ring",
ring2="Karieyh ring +1",
back=STR_Back,
waist="Sailfi belt +1",
legs="Boii cuisses +3",
feet="Nyame sollerets"
}

STR_Back is just usual STR+30 WSD+10 cape.


What I've noticed is that you really don't want to WS under 1500 unless WC is up. It has very linear TP scaling so assuming you are properly buffed you can wait an extra attack round to hit 1500 or higher.

Use Niqmaddu ring over Sroda.
Probably stupid question, but I'll ask anyways. With the added tp bonus, it's 350, so need 1650tp to get to 2k. Why 1500?
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By Taint 2024-03-22 18:14:29  
tallica said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
sets.Fimbulvetr = {
ammo="Knobkierrie",
head="Agoge mask +3",
neck="War. Beads +2",
ear1="Thrud Earring",
ear2="Moonshade earring",
body="Nyame mail",
hands="Boii mufflers +3",
ring1="Niqmaddu ring",
ring2="Karieyh ring +1",
back=STR_Back,
waist="Sailfi belt +1",
legs="Boii cuisses +3",
feet="Nyame sollerets"
}

STR_Back is just usual STR+30 WSD+10 cape.


What I've noticed is that you really don't want to WS under 1500 unless WC is up. It has very linear TP scaling so assuming you are properly buffed you can wait an extra attack round to hit 1500 or higher.

Use Niqmaddu ring over Sroda.
Probably stupid question, but I'll ask anyways. With the added tp bonus, it's 350, so need 1650tp to get to 2k. Why 1500?


It scales with TP, there aren't hard anchor points. ex. 1501 TP does more damage than 1500.
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By Godfry 2024-03-22 18:17:34  
tallica said: »
Probably stupid question, but I'll ask anyways. With the added tp bonus, it's 350, so need 1650tp to get to 2k. Why 1500?

Not stupid at all. However, I don't think Saevel is suggesting you go at 1500. He is just warning you shouldn't do it at ~ < 1500 because that would be a considerable loss. But I bet he probably does it around 1650 or above.
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By tallica 2024-03-22 18:26:47  
Taint said: »
tallica said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
sets.Fimbulvetr = {
ammo="Knobkierrie",
head="Agoge mask +3",
neck="War. Beads +2",
ear1="Thrud Earring",
ear2="Moonshade earring",
body="Nyame mail",
hands="Boii mufflers +3",
ring1="Niqmaddu ring",
ring2="Karieyh ring +1",
back=STR_Back,
waist="Sailfi belt +1",
legs="Boii cuisses +3",
feet="Nyame sollerets"
}

STR_Back is just usual STR+30 WSD+10 cape.


What I've noticed is that you really don't want to WS under 1500 unless WC is up. It has very linear TP scaling so assuming you are properly buffed you can wait an extra attack round to hit 1500 or higher.

Use Niqmaddu ring over Sroda.
Probably stupid question, but I'll ask anyways. With the added tp bonus, it's 350, so need 1650tp to get to 2k. Why 1500?


It scales with TP, there aren't hard anchor points. ex. 1501 TP does more damage than 1500.
Oh...OHHHHHHH, this was not known by me...good to know. Thank you.
You as well, Godfry.
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