The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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2010-06-21
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2018-01-19 12:34:59  
Rainemard said: »
Edit: Same for my regular Ukko's Fury set, also doesn't equip. What's the syntax to fix this?

I just saw this, change line 623:
Code
sets.precast.WS["Ukko's Fury"]
 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2018-01-19 22:52:04  
Darkvlade said: »
Hello fellow wars can anyone take a look at this war.lua and see if there’s anything wrong with it since gearswap won’t launch it or display any error message as to why is not loading, cant remember who I got this one from in here, but if anyone can help or share a similar working one it will be much appreciated, thanks in advance.

War.lua that won’t load/launch...
That looks familiar whats it not doing? I can update the pastebin with the newest. Some minor changes.

here is the current version, Conquerer will be added soon.
https://pastebin.com/ahztGkt4
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By SmoothC 2018-01-27 20:13:49  
I have been having fun this weekend with Swords! I have been playing around with Fencer and Savage Blade and also dual wield swords. I really like the dual wield method with the Hep. Sapara +1. I've been self chaining Swift Blade into Savage Blade for Fragmentation with some great results. It has been out damaging my straight fencer, but I dont have Blurred +1 shield, nor maxed JP Fencer Gifts...so it probably wouldn't beat it straight up. None the less here is what Im using. The Vamp. Sword is maxed so it gives +15 DMG and 10 STR on top of stats. I think I like this better for off hand then Sangarius +1 which I also tried. I don't have any of the Reis or Ru'an Swords yet. Thought I'd share just for kicks, in case anyone was interested in the Hep. Weapons that unlock Swift Blade.

TP:
ItemSet 356401

Ody Legs: +4 Double Attack, etc
Mantle: DA STR ACC ATK


Savage:
ItemSet 356404

Valor Stuff: +5% WSD, etc
Mantle: WSD, STR, ACC, ATK
 Cerberus.Maxiel
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By Cerberus.Maxiel 2018-01-30 02:31:50  
A few questions from a returning WAR and wanna make the most of the job.

----


Do Restraint or Retaliation gear have to be worn full time to gain its effects? So are upgrading empy feet and hands pointless for now?

Is the Fencer +2 boost in Empy legs worth the other stats you lack for Fencer builds?

Should I be focusing on a mix of macc and acc on Full Break/Shockwave etc?

Some people seem to be hyping Bravura's tankability but does it allow for some solos that would otherwise be extremely inconvenient without? Wondering if it has any further niche besides being a nice safety measure or putting on if your WHM or Tank are doing poorly and you have to make up for it.

Can anyone share their single-wield Mistral Axe/Savage blade set? Do we try to WS at whatever takes us to 3k tp with all sources of fencer and TP bonus or can we WS right away?

What Ambuscade cape should I make for Non-Chango Upheaval?

Thanks for catching me up! Any other general tips that are often overlooked is greatly appreciated!
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-01-30 07:32:01  
Cerberus.Maxiel said: »
Do Restraint or Retaliation gear have to be worn full time to gain its effects? So are upgrading empy feet and hands pointless for now?

Full time for it to count, Empy feet are still good for MS-Resolution sets.

Cerberus.Maxiel said: »
Is the Fencer +2 boost in Empy legs worth the other stats you lack for Fencer builds?

Generally not worth it, it's just +100 TP bonus and you get more out of WSD in that slot.

Cerberus.Maxiel said: »
Should I be focusing on a mix of macc and acc on Full Break/Shockwave etc?

Flamma +2 will solve all issues with those WS's, nice Store TP to boot so TP return isn't crippled.

Cerberus.Maxiel said: »
Some people seem to be hyping Bravura's tankability but does it allow for some solos that would otherwise be extremely inconvenient without? Wondering if it has any further niche besides being a nice safety measure or putting on if your WHM or Tank are doing poorly and you have to make up for it.

Bravura is about be able to have max -DT while still being in offensive gear. The DT-20 makes it so you have to sacrifice very few slots to hit -50 and can continue to kick something's *** while not risking becoming a red smear on the ground. I've kicked Maju's *** with a WHM mule and a GEO using Bravura after he killed AAEV and my other trusts. It synergizes really well with Retaliation. It's a situational weapon for advanced WAR's.

Cerberus.Maxiel said: »
Do we try to WS at whatever takes us to 3k tp with all sources of fencer and TP bonus or can we WS right away?

Right away, always right away. Things like TP Bonus and +fTP items are only added once and their benefits don't scale with TP, meaning it's virtually always best to WS immediately. The people who deliberately hold TP are those valuing big numbers over total damage.

Cerberus.Maxiel said: »
What Ambuscade cape should I make for Non-Chango Upheaval?

Upheaval needs two capes, one for under 2K TP and one for 2K+ TP. Without Chango your going to be using that under 2K one a lot more often.

Under-2K
VIT +30
Atk/Acc +20
DA +10

2K+
VIT +30
Atk/Acc +20
WSD +10

It's ok to use Acc +10 instead of VIT +10 if your just gearing WAR as your Upheaval set might be lacking accuracy and you can always needle swap it later.
 Asura.Squallbr
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By Asura.Squallbr 2018-01-31 18:23:07  
I would like to know the opinion about emp(Unkovasara) and myth(Conqueror), I have Aeonic and I want to make another weapon, not Ragnarok. For war today, is it stronger emp or myth?
The strength of the critical hit or the multhit. Emp is sex, but myth
looks better. Besides said it would be my first myth.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-01-31 18:54:39  
Asura.Squallbr said: »
I would like to know the opinion about emp(Unkovasara) and myth(Conqueror), I have Aeonic and I want to make another weapon, not Ragnarok. For war today, is it stronger emp or myth?
The strength of the critical hit or the multhit. Emp is sex, but myth
looks better. Besides said it would be my first myth.

Chango is the best by a large amount. After that it kinda depends, Ukon would be beastly, if Upheaval Ukko's Fury was any good. As it stands it does nothing for your WS damage. Conq has the benefit of boosting King's Justice 30% which results in it being really competitive, though Reso spam will beat it at pure DPS. Unlike UF extra TP actually has a noticeable effect on KJ damage so AM silliness isn't a large damage sinkhole.

-Edit-
Typed wrong WS my bad.
 Asura.Squallbr
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By Asura.Squallbr 2018-01-31 19:00:58  
But if war gaxe ws is poor, with emp triple damage and double/triple/quad att set no is better then spanw any ws on war?
[I'm new on war]
 Leviathan.Kingkitt
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By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2018-01-31 22:10:50  
Asura.Squallbr said: »
I would like to know the opinion about emp(Unkovasara) and myth(Conqueror), I have Aeonic and I want to make another weapon, not Ragnarok. For war today, is it stronger emp or myth?
The strength of the critical hit or the multhit. Emp is sex, but myth
looks better. Besides said it would be my first myth.

Ragnarok is so much easier and less gil/time sink than Ukon/Conq and actually performs really well.
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By Afania 2018-02-01 06:59:58  
Leviathan.Kingkitt said: »
Asura.Squallbr said: »
I would like to know the opinion about emp(Unkovasara) and myth(Conqueror), I have Aeonic and I want to make another weapon, not Ragnarok. For war today, is it stronger emp or myth?
The strength of the critical hit or the multhit. Emp is sex, but myth
looks better. Besides said it would be my first myth.

Ragnarok is so much easier and less gil/time sink than Ukon/Conq and actually performs really well.

I would use the gil on raetic +1 Personally, then yell at people for Radial Arcana/devotion/refresh like a spoiled princess.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-01 07:07:14  
Leviathan.Kingkitt said: »
Asura.Squallbr said: »
I would like to know the opinion about emp(Unkovasara) and myth(Conqueror), I have Aeonic and I want to make another weapon, not Ragnarok. For war today, is it stronger emp or myth?
The strength of the critical hit or the multhit. Emp is sex, but myth
looks better. Besides said it would be my first myth.

Ragnarok is so much easier and less gil/time sink than Ukon/Conq and actually performs really well.

Montante +1 is even easier and cheaper then Rag and outperforms it pretty harshly. Raetic is cheaper and beats everything as long as fights are fast and your getting MP refilled at the start. Rag is for when you really need a *** ton of accuracy, which used to be the case not too long ago.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-01 07:15:29  
Asura.Squallbr said: »
But if war gaxe ws is poor, with emp triple damage and double/triple/quad att set no is better then spanw any ws on war?
[I'm new on war]

Your not a MNK, the vast majority of WAR's damage is going to come from WS or SC linkage. Resolution GS builds are the best at damage vomit, Great Axe really shines when you want to take advantage of Skill Chain damage. Upheaval and King's Justice link to form light, and if using a Chango you can use another Upheaval for double light / radiance. You can partner up with a COR and do Upheaval -> Savage -> Upheaval which deals massive damage due to being able to power up the WS's. The only other REMA worth noting is Bravura and only because it lets you do deal full damage while still in a -50% DT set, basically the ultimate Hybrid DD weapon.
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By Afania 2018-02-01 07:30:42  
If you need acc and have gil, raetic +1 seems like a way better investment than ragnarok.

Raetic +1 is DMG 327 acc +62, ragnarok DMG 304 acc +60. Even after MP runs out raetic is still competitive, not to mention its WAY stronger than anything else before MP runs out. It's a weapon that can be used with or without MP.

But OP appearantly prefers GA, so it's irrelevant kinda.
 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2018-02-01 10:26:22  
Asura.Saevel said: »
The only other REMA worth noting is Bravura and only because it lets you do deal full damage while still in a -50% DT set, basically the ultimate Hybrid DD weapon.

This stuff is why I am working on a guide... Why do you bash on Ukon so much, let me tell you I have Bravura, Chango, Ragnarok, and Ukon, Conq is nearly done. In real testing Chango DOES NOT beat all. If you need SC's it is insane, it is EXTREMELY strong, but every one of these weapons shines in situations. Guess what on Schah I have found on multiple attempts Ukon is better then Rag. Wanna see how much? Check my stream VoD Its there live. Stop this. If you are claiming things suck, well do you have it? Can you actually take it out and test it to see how it performs? I am not saying Ukon is God, it isnt, I actually use all the weapons i have depending on the fight or situation. I have seen this for months this vomit of omg Ukko's sucks, yeah it is not great, but you can compensate. Get AM then push upheaval. or double light with upeaval > Ukko > Ukko, there is still utility and the AM is freaking nuts.

My general Rule of thumb currently is if the fight is less then 1:30 use rag, Over 1:30 Ukon, SC's needed while busting out wicked dmg Chango, will I be tanking or need to conserve the whm mp or cleaving dyna use bravura.

Grrr still posting as Atigevomega, character name has been changed to Atigev after I came back to Sylph from Asura.
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By Afania 2018-02-01 11:04:01  
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
The only other REMA worth noting is Bravura and only because it lets you do deal full damage while still in a -50% DT set, basically the ultimate Hybrid DD weapon.

If you need SC's it is insane, it is EXTREMELY strong, but every one of these weapons shines in situations.

Speaking of which, Some JP guy actually made a bunch of DPS comparison videos, and it's quite fun to watch.

YouTube Video Placeholder


Upper left: Chango WAR/SAM
Lower left: Ukon WAR/SAM
Upper right: Calabdbolg DRK/SAM
Lower right: Doji SAM/WAR

Acc/MA/hit builds/WS stats listed below jobs.

YouTube Video Placeholder


Upper left: Rag WAR/SAM
Lower left: Firangi DW savage build WAR/NIN
Upper right: Ukon WAR/SAM
Lower right: Reikiko/Blurred +1 single wield WAR/DNC
 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2018-02-01 11:16:33  
Nice Afania that's pretty cool I had thought about doing something similar once Conq is done. I don't have Blurred +1 only NQ but I can say Reikiko with a good set really impressed me this past weekend... I had consistent 70k Savages on Sandworm and Erynis kinda shocked me.
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By Afania 2018-02-01 11:29:41  
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Nice Afania that's pretty cool I had thought about doing something similar once Conq is done. I don't have Blurred +1 only NQ but I can say Reikiko with a good set really impressed me this past weekend... I had consistent 70k Savages on Sandworm and Erynis kinda shocked me.

The coolest video of that guys channel is actually Caladbolg PLD kills target faster than godhand MNK ._____.

Invinicible > take out Caladbolg and DD on PLD > switch back to shield after invinicible wears anyone? ._.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2018-02-01 12:46:20  
I have some issues with the first video Afania. Both on the Chango and the Doji the guy just spammed 1 WS (Upheaval or Fudo) for light over and over again. I don't have chango yet, but with my doji I'm better off doing Kasha > Shoha > Fudo for Radiance or even better Shoha > Fudo > Kasha > Shoha > Fudo for Radiance. With the speed I get TP with Haste II + Cornelia I rarely miss making a 5-step unless I just completely miss the WS.

Same goes for the Chango. The video fails to capitalize on the best way to deal damage with that weapon. Abusing the ability to stack multipliers on multi step SCs. So, its a neat concept, but doesn't quite show potential on 2 of the four weapons there.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-01 13:56:01  
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
This stuff is why I am working on a guide... Why do you bash on Ukon so much, let me tell you I have Bravura, Chango, Ragnarok, and Ukon, Conq is nearly done. In real testing Chango DOES NOT beat all. If you need SC's it is insane, it is EXTREMELY strong, but every one of these weapons shines in situations. Guess what on Schah I have found on multiple attempts Ukon is better then Rag

Why in the hell are you using Rag as the Great Sword standard... it's not the best GS to use for WS spam. As Afania has pointed out, HQ Raetic is and below that NQ Raetic and Monte +1 depending on length of fight and total MP (MP vorseals really help Raetic weapons). So your WS spam comparison is against those three.

Ukon sucks, period. You can try to fluff it up but the rest will crush it. The best "DPS" Great Axe WS is Upheaval and that's 85% VIT. Using 3K TP on Ukko's is a big waste of TP and puts you at negative damage compared to other options. You then have to hope the extra AM damage makes up for both that negative damage ~AND~ the lower WS damage over the course of the fight, which it won't unless your get Amnesia or are a really slow DD.

Player A Ukon -> 3000TP UF

Player B Sekka -> 1000TP KJ -> 2250~2500K Upheaval or 1000TP Upheaval -> 2250~2500TP Upheaval if SC isn't possible.

Player C Sekka -> 1000TP Resolution -> 2250~2500TP Resolution

If Warcry is in effect it's an ever bigger waste to use Ukon, +700 TP bonus vastly increases WS damage over shorter fights. When you use Sekka you only use 1000TP on the first WS but still get the full TP return from that WS which powers up the second WS. It's a great way to open a fight if you charged 3K TP ahead of time.

Back to the original point, different weapons are good at different things. Greatswords and Polearms absolutely destroy all the other options for pure WS spam damage. Greatswords weakness is their really bad SC compatibility. Great Axes and Scythes have amazing SC compatibility with powerful WS's in key locations to facilitate bonus damage in the form of SC's. Because of this I find myself using Great Axe's more often these days.

So yes your Ukon sucks and is a really pretty wall ornament. If SE ever makes Ukko's transfer fTP on hits then it might become more useful but as of now other weapons easily beat it. Conq isn't much better, the 30% bonus to KJ makes it kinda competitive but it's still going to lose to Monte +1 / Raetic.

So short version that piss's all the unicorns off.
Pure DPS WS spam, use *** Monte +1 / Raetic
SC damage, use *** Chango.

Afania said: »
If you need acc and have gil, raetic +1 seems like a way better investment than ragnarok.

Raetic +1 is DMG 327 acc +62, ragnarok DMG 304 acc +60. Even after MP runs out raetic is still competitive, not to mention its WAY stronger than anything else before MP runs out. It's a weapon that can be used with or without MP.


I was referring to the time before the NM evasion nerf when we needed every scrap of accuracy we could dig up. Raetic didn't exist until recently. Nowadays there is very little real use for Ragnarok yet someone I keep seeing use it as a gold standard or something.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-01 14:00:36  
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
Same goes for the Chango. The video fails to capitalize on the best way to deal damage with that weapon. Abusing the ability to stack multipliers on multi step SCs. So, its a neat concept, but doesn't quite show potential on 2 of the four weapons there.

It's just someone trying to bias things in one direction or another. Chango can do a 5-step but it's rarely worth it, instead a simple four step does wonders.

Sekka -> Full Break -> Upheaval -> King's -> Upheaval

The damaging WS's won't miss, and opens with a stat down WS. If evasion / defense down isn't needed then can open with Steel Cyclone which does respectable damage considering it's an opener.

Right tool for the right job.
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2018-02-01 14:07:23  
Wow did i hit a sore spot? Unicorns and name calling NICE! lol Try getting them all and testing them. See i dont post here bc your a blow hard that spouts this anti weapon ***. I literally have all but Conq, I can pull them all out and use them and optimize them. People are so anti this or anti that its a joke. Then you act like I really dont know what im saying. Oh well guess its a loss when you cant even try to listen to another opinion when hard numbers are presented in actual fights. My parse is clearly shown on the VoD have fun.

Saevel I will not deny you have some useful info, but your lack of seeing hard things presented is not cool, i sadi Ukon is not God, but yet you focused on that, i said it had uses and can be powerful. As i have proven over and over and over. Conq should be better, i will find out once its done.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/223076128
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-01 14:11:40  
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Then you act like I really dont know what im saying.

You don't.

First was you tried to compare Great Axe's in pure DPS spam, something they aren't useful for. Then you used Ragnarok as the comparison for Great Swords.

Some other mistakes too but those are the biggest red flags.
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2018-02-01 14:17:30  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Then you act like I really dont know what im saying.

You don't.

First was you tried to compare Great Axe's in pure DPS spam, something they aren't useful for. Then you used Ragnarok as the comparison for Great Swords.

Some other mistakes too but those are the biggest red flags.

Ok Re Read what i said, Yes i use rag, bc I couldnt get Raetic to perform better, i still have motentente +1. I gave clear reasons of when what was better, of course you use GS for everything that is FAST but when something survives longer then MS or 2 MS, the game changes, you have to adapt and overcome. And in this situation, the AM of Ukon starts to prove worthy. Test it yourself I can and did.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-01 14:21:25  
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Ok Re Read what i said, Yes i use rag, bc I couldnt get Raetic to perform better, i still have motentente +1

Then you REALLY REALLY suck and should be the last person "writing a guide". The fact you couldn't figure out how to make a superior weapon work speaks volumes.
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2018-02-01 14:25:48  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Ok Re Read what i said, Yes i use rag, bc I couldnt get Raetic to perform better, i still have motentente +1

Then you REALLY REALLY suck and should be the last person "writing a guide". The fact you couldn't figure out how to make a superior weapon work speaks volumes.
LOL far from it, I didnt have an HQ and I left asura bc it was a joke so not as easy to get one. Then you resort to name calling lol So who losses credit? Keep spouting Saevel not worth my time. Sorry i wont resort to the name calling ***. I try to inform that other RMEA ARE in fact useful and you go to this, my god let someone say something the mighty Saevel doesnt agree with.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-01 14:38:04  
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
LOL far from it, I didnt have an HQ and I left asura bc it was a joke so not as easy to get one.

I'm talking about the NQ Raetic and the piss easy to get Monte +1. Monte +1 alone beats everything non-Raetic in escha and even can beat Reatic outside of Escha (WAR's low natural MP is the cause).

There ya go right there,

https://www.ffxiah.com/item/21662/raetic-algol

All of 3.3 million gil.

And then

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Montante_%2B1

Free from a UNM that also drops the materials to turn a NQ into a HQ.

If you can't figure out how to make it shine then that's on you.
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2018-02-01 14:43:18  
This shows you dont read fully. I have motente and i sold that algol on your server lol. Oh i intend on working on it more, but you immediatly jumped to i must suck. No I dont I simply said that i hadnt gotten it to perform better, this doesnt mean it WONT just i hadnt yet, see 2 treatments a week kinda wears you out. So chill with all the negative ***, maybe i came out the gate a bit strong but still man damn.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2018-02-01 14:51:14  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
Same goes for the Chango. The video fails to capitalize on the best way to deal damage with that weapon. Abusing the ability to stack multipliers on multi step SCs. So, its a neat concept, but doesn't quite show potential on 2 of the four weapons there.

It's just someone trying to bias things in one direction or another. Chango can do a 5-step but it's rarely worth it, instead a simple four step does wonders.

Sekka -> Full Break -> Upheaval -> King's -> Upheaval

The damaging WS's won't miss, and opens with a stat down WS. If evasion / defense down isn't needed then can open with Steel Cyclone which does respectable damage considering it's an opener.

Right tool for the right job.

Right, SAM has the added benefit of 3 WSs that all have decent damage modifiers. The weak link is Kasha, but even it peforms decent to warrant the step. Both Shoha and Fudo are very good. SAM has access to Tachi: Ageha as well, for a really good -def at the start too

I imagine 5-step is a lot more of a crap shoot with Chango. I know I have trouble making it on Aganoshe (practice) where I can even get 4-step all the time. Starting at Full Break/Steel Cyclone seems a more sure bet.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-01 15:03:42  
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
I imagine 5-step is a lot more of a crap shoot with Chango. I know I have trouble making it on Aganoshe (practice) where I can even get 4-step all the time. Starting at Full Break/Steel Cyclone seems a more sure bet.

If I have SAM's roll then I can easily do a five step, it's just normally not worth it cause SC damage caps at 99K anyway. The only problem SAM has is the curse-of-Fudo, in that one hit WS's will miss 5% of the time and you don't get to choose which 5% it is. So if something like Kasha or Fudo miss in the middle, it kinda screws up the whole chain and wastes time. It's why I like to just do a four step, not as big a gamble on time wasting and still guarantee's a Radiance as a finisher.

Note on WAR, don't gear for 4-hit. Instead gear for 5-hit with HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE amounts of Multi-Attack and let SAM's roll bring you to a 4-hit. Doing this you will end up with slightly over 2 attacks per round averaged and end up WSing virtually non-stop.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-01 15:13:02  
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
maybe i came out the gate a bit strong

Understatement

Sylph.Atigevomega said:
In real testing Chango DOES NOT beat all. If you need SC's it is insane, it is EXTREMELY strong, but every one of these weapons shines in situations. Guess what on Schah I have found on multiple attempts Ukon is better then Rag

And you kept doubling down from there, then tried to divert and reverse.

Asura.Saevel said: »
Ukon sucks, period. You can try to fluff it up but the rest will crush it.

I then illustrated exactly how and why this is.

Asura.Saevel said: »
So short version that piss's all the unicorns off.
Pure DPS WS spam, use *** Monte +1 / Raetic
SC damage, use *** Chango.

Yes unicorns, people who think that something special and magical makes their experience unique and when challenged fly into emotional reasoning.
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