The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-24 18:37:56  
when you hit 990 tp..... I know that happens ALOT with me and kikoku simply because if you take the time to map it out you can build an x-hit for any dd. Sometimes adding 1-3 OR 10 stp is well worth it over a few multi hit if it will shave 1 hit needed to ws.

I am not saying go builds pure stp builds, but 10 is a large number and actually will shave off a hit per round normally. While in practice its effect wont be as big as it is for a 2h dd, it still is very noticeable if your OCD about your dps which I have been this month since its the first time in a long time ppl actually WANT me to nin haha.

Its why I use adhemar+1 hands over my herc hands which have 2 more TA, but lose that 7 stp.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2017-10-24 22:07:02  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Naive question since I didn't test it myself on the spreadsheet, but does 1250TP Blade: Hi perform better than 1250 Blade: Ten?
A non RMEA NIN should spam Shun regardless, shouldn't he? I think Shun is the best performing WS in all (?) situations without a RMEA.

Slightly late reply (busy thread, busy couple days!), but as you eventually got around to - yes, my main rationale for non-Kannagi use of Hi was for SC purposes. Pairs with so many other WS for darkness, I run into situations all the time where I willingly gimp my raw WS damage to use Hi for SCs.

From a damage perspective, non-RMEA would be spamming Shun for maximum WS damage. Ten would indeed be uncommon, since you'd normally be doing Shun for damage or some light SCs, or Hi if you're doing darkness SCs.

That being said, for non-RMEA NINs who think they will get an Aeonic relatively soon, really any attribute & WSD+10% will at least be in the top handful of capes for Hi, so you might just toss STR/WSD on there with the knowledge that once you get that Heishi, you'll have the best cape for it ready to go. I suppose you could also just change a cape from AGI to STR with a needle once you get the Heishi... but if we're being conservative with use of Ambuscade points the WSD+10% is the priority.

Asura.Sechs said: »
Never met a NIN with Kikoku this month, but if I were in a situation with 2x Heishi and 1x Kikoku then yeah, he could totally spam Metsu while the Heishi NINs keep spamming their Shun!

Yeah, agreed.

Also, I've done some Ambu this month with Kikoku (me) and non-RMEA Kanaria, and the other NIN spammed Hi, I did Metsu for darkness (cause Metsu is <3 for SC flexibility). Worked well. Really, if you're doing it with multiple NINs and any of them lack Heishi, Hi spam (along with Metsu for Kikoku users) is prob the way to go for this month's fight.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-25 01:06:43  
It's technically two needles to swap from AGI to STR (or vice versa) but I guess you're right, didn't think about needles. Good one Capu!
 Asura.Arico
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By Asura.Arico 2017-10-26 12:41:11  
Why would you use STR on shun? Isn't it DEX?
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-10-26 12:43:06  
no one is saying to do that
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By hushmunkey 2017-10-27 07:29:07  
Asura.Arico said: »
Why would you use STR on shun? Isn't it DEX?
Most people aren't dedicated enough - especially to ninja - to make all the necessary capes that are ideal for a job. The recommendation is that if you aren't going to make all the appropriate WS capes, to make a str/wsd cape b/c ultimately it's best for blade ten which will become your best ws. Beyond that - STR will enhance your fstr which will help all of your physical weapon skills, and thus will be the best cape to use as a stop - gap until you make all the capes that you would want for each weapon skill or gear set.
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 Asura.Mewwgoat
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By Asura.Mewwgoat 2017-10-27 07:44:57  
ok! first REMA ever made, part of the Kikoku club now (non ag) in my small test group without buffs except from myself, metsu is pulling ahead, but average only like 400 more than shun, granted i dont have a wsd cape made yet, but am i think pretty well off in all other areas with a good wsd set. my blade hi is beating it in ambu.
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 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-27 11:00:06  
ya Metsu is not bad by any means. Its not flashy but its very consistent. On D this month my metsu hits 99k like anything else, so no worries on that.

Shun should 'avg' higher under normal conditions, however the sc properties of it is lacking without aeonic for most setups so jumping to metsu is probably ideal. Back in my Kikoku only days I would solo apex super fast by doing metsu>metsu>Ice MBx2, followed by metsu>shun>thunder MBx2, this normally would mean a dead crab/jagil. The fact you can mix in metsu for both light and dark sc's is what made it so fun then.

As you gear improves you will notice that Ten is king by a lot when you run the attack and tp to really get the most out of it. Then everything else you use for sc purposes if thats needed. Metsu fills this role great but shun will normally win dmg wise, and Hi imo is ***no matter what these forums are spewing this month unless your a new nin who needs to spam darkness for sc+mb setups.

cg though! if you need just ask to see my metsu setup ingame.
 Quetzalcoatl.Khajit
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By Quetzalcoatl.Khajit 2017-10-27 12:23:28  
hushmunkey said: »
Asura.Arico said: »
Why would you use STR on shun? Isn't it DEX?
Most people aren't dedicated enough - especially to ninja - to make all the necessary capes that are ideal for a job. The recommendation is that if you aren't going to make all the appropriate WS capes, to make a str/wsd cape b/c ultimately it's best for blade ten which will become your best ws. Beyond that - STR will enhance your fstr which will help all of your physical weapon skills, and thus will be the best cape to use as a stop - gap until you make all the capes that you would want for each weapon skill or gear set.
That's really bad logic because a dex acc da cape as the first cape for a ninja to make in ambuscade will cover both shun and tp needs. After that you can make a blade ten cape if you care to make more capes. Then in the 3rd month if you want to keep making melee/ws capes you can make a stp/etc one.
Whatever line of advice spawned this conversation is exceedingly wrong and bad.
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By hushmunkey 2017-10-27 14:04:36  
Quetzalcoatl.Khajit said: »
hushmunkey said: »
Asura.Arico said: »
Why would you use STR on shun? Isn't it DEX?
Most people aren't dedicated enough - especially to ninja - to make all the necessary capes that are ideal for a job. The recommendation is that if you aren't going to make all the appropriate WS capes, to make a str/wsd cape b/c ultimately it's best for blade ten which will become your best ws. Beyond that - STR will enhance your fstr which will help all of your physical weapon skills, and thus will be the best cape to use as a stop - gap until you make all the capes that you would want for each weapon skill or gear set.
That's really bad logic because a dex acc da cape as the first cape for a ninja to make in ambuscade will cover both shun and tp needs. After that you can make a blade ten cape if you care to make more capes. Then in the 3rd month if you want to keep making melee/ws capes you can make a stp/etc one.
Whatever line of advice spawned this conversation is exceedingly wrong and bad.

If you read back one whole page you could see the OP asked for a recommendation as to which capes he should make if he's only going to make two. Number one was indeed the DEX/acc/da you mentioned, and two is the STR/wsd cape.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2017-10-27 14:28:36  
Asura.Azagarth said: »
Hi imo is ***no matter what these forums are spewing this month unless your a new nin who needs to spam darkness for sc+mb setups.

I agree that Shun is better damage just comparing WS numbers, but new NIN or not, sometimes your group composition will lean more toward Darkness SCs with Hi. Especially situations where SC get a further damage bonus, like this Ambu. If you have Aeonic or the buffs to pull it off, Ten can usually substitute for Hi for the same darkness SCs, but that's not a guarantee for non-Heishi NINs since it does depend on buffs.

For Kikoku, Metsu is also particularly nice for this kind of thing since it substitutes for Hi in most Darkness SCs AND some Light, and should be better damage than Hi if gearing correctly. And Metsu is the only reasonable non-Heishi NIN self-light option (Metsu>Shun, or vice versa) - Shun and Kamu also work to make light, but... yeah, Blade: Kamu no thanks.

hushmunkey said: »
If you read back one whole page you could see the OP asked for a recommendation as to which capes he should make if he's only going to make two. Number one was indeed the DEX/acc/da you mentioned, and two is the STR/wsd cape.

Yep. And to be clear, the DEX/acc/da is for BOTH of TP and Shun. The STR WSD cape is primarily for Ten - regardless of whether you have Aeonic (where Ten really shines b/c of TP Bonus), you'll still get use out of Ten for SCs or if you have enough buffs. STR/WSD also serves as a pretty good (2nd best) option for Hi, when you might want to use that.

Unless you just have more cape materials than you know what to do with, an "ideal" AGI/WSD Hi cape is not a very high priority for anyone but Kannagi users.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Langly
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By Quetzalcoatl.Langly 2017-10-30 14:32:54  
Spreadsheet as of 10/30/2017
DropBox

Added: Mummu +2 gear
Added: Store TP +10 when Kakka is flagged (Setup!F7 & G7)
Added: Compensation TP to Set1MeleeTP and Set2MeleeTP based on the difference between Katana TP and Shuriken TP generation. Distributed across AvgHitsPerRound1 and AvgHitsPerRound2. In most cases the TP generation from Daken procs will still slightly be undervalued (due to flooring) but on such a small scale it won't prompt you to throw out the results.

To Do: Add in all newer set bonuses.

Edit: Welcome any and all input.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-30 15:10:11  
<3
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-10-30 15:10:44  
Langly why isn't your Spreadsheet listed in HERE btw?
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 Quetzalcoatl.Langly
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By Quetzalcoatl.Langly 2017-10-30 17:09:39  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Langly why isn't your Spreadsheet listed in HERE btw?

I do not know. I felt like I had made it available in the first post of the first thread of the Ninja forum. Guess it got overlooked?
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2017-10-31 21:16:47  
Quetzalcoatl.Langly said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Langly why isn't your Spreadsheet listed in HERE btw?

I do not know. I felt like I had made it available in the first post of the first thread of the Ninja forum. Guess it got overlooked?
Sorry, I did over look it but did say if some knew to let me know. Anyway Sechs informed me and its been added to the node. Langly you also have edit access to it if you would like to keep the urls up to date and latest modified date.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Langly
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By Quetzalcoatl.Langly 2017-10-31 21:58:24  
Thanks Chiaia. I'll keep it in mind!
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-11-01 12:07:15  
For those curious about NIN DPS, I parsed my NIN on Neak yesterday spamming Blade: Ten. I use the same buffs I've been using for the other benchmarking (Samurai Roll + Chaos and BoG/EA Frailty). I got about 4.2k DPS over the course of 12 Neak. This is about the same level as MNK and slightly below BLU. It's decent but nothing to write home about, although in low buffs situations it appears to do much better. I recently did Unafraid of the Dark with the standard NIN BLU COR GEO BRD WHM setup.

Code
NIN 3095325(40.9%)
BLU 2007943(26.5%)
COR 749390(9.9%)
Skillchain(NIN) 895887(11.8%)
Skillchain(BLU) 598672(7.9%)
Skillchain(COR) 175578(2.3%)
Skillchain(GEO) 38103(0.5%)
Skillchain(BRD) 10305(0.1%)

I used Blade: Shun on everything. I rotated between Katana and Hepatizon Baghnakhs (Dragon Kick) on the Quadav. People have said that BLU was the primary source of DPS for this fight but it seems that's not necessarily the case.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-11-01 12:56:22  
Also just something I've noticed since picking up Moonlight Nodowa +1. It really screws up my Daken accuracy. My sets before maintained a delta of about 100 between secondary accuracy and ranged accuracy (until I get into the very high accuracy sets, at which point I don't focus on racc at all.) That said, the Nodowa +1 is better if you don't need the racc. I think I'll change my sets such that Moonlight +1 is in the lowest set, but then I immediately switch back to Iskur to maintain Daken accuracy until it's no longer viable. If Daken accuracy is bad in the lowest set, I'll move up and then continue to move up until I reach the necessary accuracy tier. It's odd but I'm not sure of a better way to do it and you shouldn't ignore Daken.
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 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2017-11-01 13:02:35  
Really it all depends who you go with I've parsed 25%+ a few times on COR other times as little as 3% just being asked to be a support COR. /sigh

It definitely can be done different ways then what people first thought about BLU being the main DD that's for sure. Utilizing the COR to take care of the Tzee Xicu the Manifest shield is one such strat to help speed it up instead of the Ninja switching to dagger's and lowering their dps. Pretty easy to melee for tp on COR and then Last Stand it with no extra special ranged buffs.

Grats on the win btw if it was your first.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [31 days between previous and next post]
 Leviathan.Sidra
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2017-12-02 14:54:00  
What do you guys think is the better Offhand to pair with my Triple Attack Kanaria while I wait on my Heishi?

Tancho
Raicho
Mijun (Path b)

I am leaning towards the latter: most accuracy and lowest delay.

It will mainly be for solo CP, or if an Ambuscade happens to come up where NIN would be needed.
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-12-02 14:54:52  
Shigi, especially for both you mentioned.
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 Leviathan.Vedder
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By Leviathan.Vedder 2017-12-02 15:54:38  
Shigi for sure
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By Boshi 2017-12-19 01:47:54  
Is there any consensus on best dye slot for a nuking cape,
Int vs mdmg?
 Carbuncle.Lunatone
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By Carbuncle.Lunatone 2017-12-26 18:27:33  
Feels like ive kind of reached the ceiling for metsu damage on nin at around 15000 on avg(this is on putraxia) low end being 13kish high being 17/18k assuming because multi hit procs on it.
Is this roughly where I should be? I have alot more work to put in on nin but I'd like to say my sets are in a pretty good spot, ive had to make sidegrades for things I just dont have/cant get yet so nothing really BiS.
I've messed w/ Ten some and it really seems to only beat metsu at 2kish or more tp, highest i've seen personally is 22k @300tp.
 Carbuncle.Lunatone
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By Carbuncle.Lunatone 2017-12-26 18:29:58  
If I can figure out how to post the little sets like they are in the beginning of the guide I will for critical analysis etc, I'm still trying to figure that part out haha
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2017-12-26 18:38:01  
On your profile build a set:http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets

[itemset number code [/itemset
 Carbuncle.Lunatone
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By Carbuncle.Lunatone 2017-12-26 18:39:24  
ItemSet 355713
I did it thank you!!
 Carbuncle.Lunatone
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By Carbuncle.Lunatone 2017-12-26 18:40:55  
augments={'Attack+11','Weapon skill damage +5%','Accuracy+13',}} (hands)
augments={'Accuracy+2','Weapon skill damage +4%','AGI+11',}},
(feet)
augments={'DEX+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','DEX+10','Weapon skill damage +10%',}},
(back)
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2017-12-26 18:43:14  
So for one, metsu doesn't crit so mummu body is doing probably nothing for you, especially without a second piece for set.

Shuriken also doing nothing for you.
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