The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

言語: JP EN DE FR
2010-06-21
New Items
users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Ninja » The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
First Page 2 3 ... 202 203
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 7157
By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-17 14:31:14  
Exactely my point, Capu >______>''

/highfive Capuchin
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6870
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-17 19:26:48  
Aagk is actually very easy on ninja. Just blade shun the wyvern when he pops and shadow maintenance is simple.

That aside, I'm not really sure happo is even that optimal anymore. Date shrunken is 26 base damage higher, and has 242 skill vs 228. I'm only 1/5 sange merits myself because it's not a priority, but why exactly are you still using happo+1? Is it actually superior dps vs date? Doesn't look like it to me. The only advantage I'm seeing is 6 attack, 1 accuracy, 2 critical hit rate. The ranged accuracy is a wash (and probably loss) from the missing skill. Not a huge numbers parser, maybe you compared them both. With all the critical gear ninja gets, is happo+1 even better than Date's 26 base damage? I know people don't care much for white numbers a lot, but during sange, that's a pretty big increase.
 Asura.Chiaia
VIP
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Demmis
Posts: 1233
By Asura.Chiaia 2020-10-17 20:21:02  
You can't even really use Happo +1 during Sange anyway since it consumes ammo so it's kind of a mute point to compare them for that use case.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6870
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-17 20:58:11  
Right, well said. I should correct myself then and simplify the question: is happo +1 even better than date shurikens for normal dps/daken? I don't see any real reason to still be using that shuriken, the base damage on Date is significantly higher, so it should push your white damage higher than 2% crit rate would. You can still keep sange merits if you simply drop that shuriken. Outside of potentially wasting money, it might not even be better in a normal melee set.
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 7157
By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-18 17:50:36  
Are there some nice burst and non burst updated Sets for NIN?
I remember Logical having some interesting findings in his videos, wonder if his sets have been posted somewhere else.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2607
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-10-19 03:55:22  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Right, well said. I should correct myself then and simplify the question: is happo +1 even better than date shurikens for normal dps/daken? I don't see any real reason to still be using that shuriken, the base damage on Date is significantly higher, so it should push your white damage higher than 2% crit rate would. You can still keep sange merits if you simply drop that shuriken. Outside of potentially wasting money, it might not even be better in a normal melee set.

Yeah I think you're right, Date should generally be best by a slight advantage over Seki or Happo +1.

I still have Happo +1 over Seki in my default Kannagi TP set (Ken+1 gear, maximizing crits with AM3 up). And I've been using Seki Shurkien with the other mainhands.

But Date seems to slightly beat them both in nearly any situation, according to my spreadsheet. I honestly just looked past it a bit when these DI rewards were new since there was a lot of other stuff for other jobs that made a more significant improvement, versus Date being a rather small incremental boost over existing shuriken. But yeah, now I have points to spare and I just forgot about the thing. Thanks for the reminder!
 Phoenix.Logical
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 222
By Phoenix.Logical 2020-10-19 07:42:12  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Are there some nice burst and non burst updated Sets for NIN?
I remember Logical having some interesting findings in his videos, wonder if his sets have been posted somewhere else.

Sadly the sets are just in the videos at this time but once I finish these last 6 sets I'm going to do a recap video that just quickly goes through all the sets for easy reference. Should be out sometime in December.
 Phoenix.Logical
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 222
By Phoenix.Logical 2020-10-19 07:54:18  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Right, well said. I should correct myself then and simplify the question: is happo +1 even better than date shurikens for normal dps/daken? I don't see any real reason to still be using that shuriken, the base damage on Date is significantly higher, so it should push your white damage higher than 2% crit rate would. You can still keep sange merits if you simply drop that shuriken. Outside of potentially wasting money, it might not even be better in a normal melee set.

That really is the question and sadly the Answer is DPS wise, No Happo +1's days are over.

In unbuffed situations Seki will win by 10 DPS over Date and 22 DPS over Happo +1 so definitely ends up a distant third there.

In buffed situations I now show Date as king beating Seki by 44 DPS! Now in this sitaution Happo +1 does end up being more useful then Seki, being only 40 DPS behind Date but you should still be using Date with that huge difference.

So yea in both situations Happo +1 has been replaced. Now similar to Capuchin, when I'm going for a strong crit hit build there is a solid reason to still use it but really, that's about all these days.
[+]
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 7157
By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-19 10:58:26  
Phoenix.Logical said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Are there some nice burst and non burst updated Sets for NIN?
I remember Logical having some interesting findings in his videos, wonder if his sets have been posted somewhere else.

Sadly the sets are just in the videos at this time but once I finish these last 6 sets I'm going to do a recap video that just quickly goes through all the sets for easy reference. Should be out sometime in December.
So sad :(((((((

I neeed theeeeeem
Noooooowwwwzzzzz
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6870
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-19 12:25:36  
Set is mostly the same, idk how updated they became after Odyssey stuff. There was only a handful of mab/mdmg/burst pieces.

free
gokotai/tauret/-/R15 Ghastly Tathlum+1
Mochizuki hatsuburi +3/baetyl/friomisi/crematio
gyve doublet/leyline(futae:empyrean)/shiva+1/r15 Metamorph+1
Andartia MAB+INT+macc mdmg/orpheus's sash/gyve trousers/(merits)Mochuzuki Kyahan +3

burst swaps
Static Earring/Herculean hands, legs, feet (if you have DM augments), mujin band/locus ring/Samnuha Coat. R15 Warder's Charm depending on your MBB stat. Everything else stayed pretty much the same, you just pick the pieces to help you achieve the requisite burst+%
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 7157
By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-19 12:27:07  
I wanted to thank SimonSes for the Hybrid WS spreadsheet.
With that I found out that I had better options available for some slots.
Like Rawhide Vest beating my Samnuha Coat for instance, or Fotia Neck/Belt beating the options I had there (Sanctity Necklace and Engraved Belt), and other little things like this.

Thanks again!
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 7157
By Asura.Sechs 2020-10-19 12:30:43  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
free
gokotai/tauret/-/R15 Ghastly Tathlum+1
Mochizuki hatsuburi +3/baetyl/friomisi/crematio
gyve doublet/leyline(futae:empyrean)/shiva+1/r15 Metamorph+1
Andartia MAB+INT+macc mdmg/orpheus's sash/gyve trousers/(merits)Mochuzuki Kyahan +3
Are you sure on the rings?
Is Dingir inferior to both options?
Alternatives for Gyve doublet?

And for the cape specifically
INT+30, Macc/Mdmg+20, Mab+10
vs
INT+20, Macc+20,Mdmg+30, Mab+10
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6870
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-19 12:46:56  
Logical's sets shows Dingir is inferior unless prioritizing Ni damage, which is about 10 dps higher than metamorph. Check the video for his numbers for each. Downgrades for Gyve - rawhide vest, herculean vest. Cape appears to win with INT vs mdmg.

body numbers: 10:00 mark
Ring comparison: 15:00 mark
Cape - INT 30: 16:00 mark

YouTube Video Placeholder
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6870
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-19 16:23:03  
Phoenix.Logical said: »
In unbuffed situations Seki will win by 10 DPS over Seki and 22 DPS over Happo +1

I assumed this first Seki is supposed to be Date?

And yes, there is a crit (Mammols/Sahagin Part 1) ambuscade that involve breaking auras with crits, so in that case, 2 crit rate > 5 DEX, so for similar objective builds, you could hang onto Happo +1. I am still not saying Sange is worth much of anything, especially with the better options for Group 2 Merits. But if the reasoning behind not meritting sange was fear of losing that shuriken, that should no longer be a problem. I happen to still use Sange in low haste (DW) builds where I need quick tp, so it has mediocre use (1/5 is enough)
Offline
Posts: 3604
By SimonSes 2020-10-19 16:50:21  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Set is mostly the same, idk how updated they became after Odyssey stuff. There was only a handful of mab/mdmg/burst pieces.

free
gokotai/tauret/-/R15 Ghastly Tathlum+1
Mochizuki hatsuburi +3/baetyl/friomisi/crematio
gyve doublet/leyline(futae:empyrean)/shiva+1/r15 Metamorph+1
Andartia MAB+INT+macc mdmg/orpheus's sash/gyve trousers/(merits)Mochuzuki Kyahan +3

burst swaps
Static Earring/Herculean hands, legs, feet (if you have DM augments), mujin band/locus ring/Samnuha Coat. R15 Warder's Charm depending on your MBB stat. Everything else stayed pretty much the same, you just pick the pieces to help you achieve the requisite burst+%

Leyline gloves are pretty bad. Its easy to roll much better Herculean (with any stone tbh).

You would need some ridiculous DM feet augment to beat Magic Burst nuke with relic+3 with 5/5 merits or AF+3 without merits. Especially when outside of raw damage power, both also have massive macc. For free nukes, not even 50mab DM augmented feet can beat 5/5 relic+3 feet.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6870
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-19 17:55:24  
SimonSes said: »
Leyline gloves are pretty bad. Its easy to roll much better Herculean (with any stone tbh).

MAB+30, Macc+33 is not "pretty bad", idk how you can make that statement. If you're saying you can get better with Herculean, sure, GL with that. You'd be able to put 10 more MAB (+40), 10 INT (24 total), and 8 more Macc (40 total), that sounds like god tier augments for a free nuke set, which you would mostly use Empyrean+1 for when Futae is ready anyways. I've all but stopped trying to augment Herculean for MAB, but I have no idea how you consider those augments "easy" to get.

For my MB set, my herc feet have 44 MAB (54 total) and 19 Macc (29 total). Between my legs (+13%MBB), hands (+15% MBB) and MB rings (10%), I'm at 38% MB1, so for me, Artifact +3 feet only contribute 2% MBB to the cap, and have significantly worse MB than my Herculean feet. IMO, Artifact3 feet are not that good. I mentioned Kyahan +3 as the best option, as the video highlights, but that is factoring 5/5 merits, which isn't always something people want to do for such a low priority action.
[+]
 Siren.Kyte
Online
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3171
By Siren.Kyte 2020-10-19 18:05:13  
Sounds to me like you're only at 33 MB1.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6870
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-19 18:15:08  
I acknowledged the Static Earring in my previous post, but mistakenly wrote MB "rings 10%" instead of ring/earring
 Phoenix.Logical
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 222
By Phoenix.Logical 2020-10-19 20:29:22  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Phoenix.Logical said: »
In unbuffed situations Seki will win by 10 DPS over Seki and 22 DPS over Happo +1

I assumed this first Seki is supposed to be Date?

Woops... yes thanks fixed.
Offline
Posts: 3604
By SimonSes 2020-10-20 03:17:10  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
SimonSes said: »
Leyline gloves are pretty bad. Its easy to roll much better Herculean (with any stone tbh).

MAB+30, Macc+33 is not "pretty bad", idk how you can make that statement. If you're saying you can get better with Herculean, sure, GL with that. You'd be able to put 10 more MAB (+40), 10 INT (24 total), and 8 more Macc (40 total), that sounds like god tier augments for a free nuke set, which you would mostly use Empyrean+1 for when Futae is ready anyways. I've all but stopped trying to augment Herculean for MAB, but I have no idea how you consider those augments "easy" to get.

For my MB set, my herc feet have 44 MAB (54 total) and 19 Macc (29 total). Between my legs (+13%MBB), hands (+15% MBB) and MB rings (10%), I'm at 38% MB1, so for me, Artifact +3 feet only contribute 2% MBB to the cap, and have significantly worse MB than my Herculean feet. IMO, Artifact3 feet are not that good. I mentioned Kyahan +3 as the best option, as the video highlights, but that is factoring 5/5 merits, which isn't always something people want to do for such a low priority action.

1. They are "bad" for 2 reasons. First its not like you can get max augment Leyline easy. You are probably talking from a perspective of already having them. Im talking from a perspective of person building a set and not having them. Getting max augment stuff from SR is pretty bad. Now for Herculean to break even you need something like 10 INT with 25 matt/macc and that is easy to get. Top augment with 15INT and 30+ mab/macc is harder to get, but still probably easier then max augmented Leyline. Come on, its herculean augment without 3rd augment "part" needed. Its not Stat+mab/macc+WSD for example, when you need to randomly hit high numbers for 3 different augment groups. Its "just" stat + mab/macc.

2. I think you are completely overlooking that AF+3 feet has +20INT on top of 23Mab, while Herculean has base 0 INT. INT is massive stat for NIN nukes. Your situation is also very subjective (im talking about your DM augmented hands + legs giving you 28%MBB). I was talking about AF+3 feet for MB set in general, not with your specific legs+hands. If you look at them from perspective of giving you full 10%MBB, then its +20INT, +23MAB, +10MBB and massive 52macc. Without merits, the only think that can beat that is probably only max augment Herculean with ~15INT, ~30mab and 8%MBB. That being said even if I would be lucky enough to get such herculean augment, I would probably still prefer AF+3, because the damage loss would still be low, while this 52macc is amazing for balancing the set, especially that you will be loosing a lot of pieces in other slots with low or no Macc at all. Ofc with 5/5 merits relic+3 all the way.
Offline
Posts: 55
By Thunderjet 2020-10-20 06:13:06  
YouTube Video Placeholder


US ASKING FOR NINJA BUFFS
First Page 2 3 ... 202 203
Log in to post.