The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

言語: JP EN DE FR
2010-06-21
New Items
users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Ninja » The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
First Page 2 3 ... 176 177 178 ... 225 226 227
Offline
Posts: 349
By mhomho 2020-02-21 01:47:54  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Shigi (Aug): I never see it beating Fudo/Gokotai any more

Shigi isn't for beating the others. It's for the -5DT for super niche builds. I like it as a Nagi offhand when I'm tanking things sometimes. I would take Shigi over Shuhansademune.
[+]
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2793
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-02-21 02:47:11  
mhomho said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Shigi (Aug): I never see it beating Fudo/Gokotai any more

Shigi isn't for beating the others. It's for the -5DT for super niche builds. I like it as a Nagi offhand when I'm tanking things sometimes. I would take Shigi over Shuhansademune.

Fair enough, good call for that reason. I don't really love the Enm-20 difference from Shuhan for most tanking applications, but I can see the value as a niche DT- piece, like you said. Maybe something like a solo/lowman fight where you have little fear of losing hate.

I'm kinda hoping one of the Unity katanas gets a buff as a better tanking offhand with the upcoming Unity reforges. Gimme something like... some DT- to go with Tancho+1's existing SIRD-35%? Enm+ to pair with Raicho's MDT? Or Meva, MDB, ninjutsu recast reduction, go totally nuts and give an extra Utsusemi shadow, etc.
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 7861
By Asura.Sechs 2020-02-21 03:55:05  
@Capuchin

Shigi provides almost the same amount of Racc as Gokotai (1,25 racc less), but it provides more Accuracy (almost 26acc more).
It has less hand-specific acc, given that Shigi is a 228 skill Katana and Gokotai is a 250 one (roughly ~16 acc?)
But speaking to the amount of acc granted to the main hand Shigi wins when it comes to pure acc. (I think Fudo Masamune clearly beeats both anyway)
Gokotai has more hand-specific att and a +30 (both hands) att bonus.
Gokotai also has Macc, which is lacking on Shigi.

Gokotai also has some small mods for WSs (DEX, AGI)
Gokotai has 37 more delay than Shigi though =/
Shigi has -Enmity which is nice if you're playing DD role btw, on some fights it can help you further with exploiting Innin's positioning more.



For pure damage, no acc involved, I think Perfect Ochu or a really nice Kanaria are both better.
Fudo Masamune is also quite hot and the best in terms of Acc (I think?) and has the nice shadows>attack bonus.
It's >150m so for that amount probably not really worth it to use just as an offhand :x
Gokotai is kinda, I dunno, something in between a fusion of Shigi and Perf Ochu?
It doens't beat them respectively but it has a bit of both at the same time.
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 7861
By Asura.Sechs 2020-02-21 03:56:29  
I forgot abotu the 5DT, I guess it can help in places like Dynamis if you want to go around using a TP build that has some DT but not capped.
Helps if you get hit by stuff like Mijin and don't have Migawari up, or some other random stuff that goes through your shadow.

I wouldn't say it's the main thing that Shigi brings honestly, I see it more as icing on the cake.
 Asura.Bayonette
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 94
By Asura.Bayonette 2020-02-21 11:08:12  
I own Heishi and offhand Gokotai. Been soloing only lately so I’m building a TP bonus offhand to crank up blade ten and try Naegling on NIN.

Looking here and at my WS sets, it seems that no one really talks about Blade Hi. Should I give up on keeping gear for it? Is it not worth specifically gearing for? I was using AGI, crit gear and WSD, I could just use my WSD set and save some space.
Offline
Posts: 349
By mhomho 2020-02-21 11:09:24  
Hi is used for Darkness (where you could use Bestu instead). If you aren't mainhand Kannagi it isn't worth it.
 Asura.Bayonette
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 94
By Asura.Bayonette 2020-02-21 11:28:08  
mhomho said: »
Hi is used for Darkness (where you could use Bestu instead). If you aren't mainhand Kannagi it isn't worth it.

I was thinking of keeping it macroed for skillchaining, but just slapping on my WSD Blade Ten set. Thoughts?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-02-21 11:28:54  
Sure.
Offline
Posts: 349
By mhomho 2020-02-21 12:12:46  
ItemSet 349629
That's a Hi set.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2793
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-02-24 00:43:36  
Mho's set mostly makes sense, though there are a handful of newer pieces to improve it. Odr Earring (Odr/Ishvara set), augmented JSE neck (even NQ with max augments, and obviously +1 and +2 are even better). Cath Palug Stone can situationally beat Yetshila +1.

There are also a few items that you might already have that are nearly as good as ideal Hi pieces:

  • Kendatsuba Samue +1 beats all but god-level DM augmented Herc Vest. It beats my DEX+14 Acc+17 Atk+27 WSD+8% Herc Vest (though if that DEX was AGI, it would win for Hi).

  • Mummu +2 hands are very close to Ryuo +1, so if you don't already have Ryuo+1 you aren't missing out on much if you don't want to spend that gil.

  • Mummu +2 feet are also quite close to the top; They'll beat anything but a high end AGI/WSD Herc feet or a really stellar STR/WSD Herc (we're talking minimum of STR+10/WSD+5% and some acc/atk).


Waist and rings are somewhat debatable:
Windbuffet +1 is generally the spreadsheet winner, but it's close enough that it comes down in part to personal decision of going with Windbuffet's higher spikes when multiattack procs versus going with Fotia (or Grunfeld) for more stable performance.

For rings, I don't really see Begrudging beating the current top tier that includes Regal, Gere, Epaminonda's, Karieyh +1, Mummu w/ set bonus. But really, they're all quite close and a definitive "best two" can vary a bit based on buffs/target. And hey, even if Begrudging reaches sidegrade territory in a given situation for WS damage, DT+10% is enough of a tiebreaker for me to go with the alternative.

And for those without Kannagi... yes, Blade: Hi is pretty much just for SC purposes. It does have some legitimate uses though: most notably as the only katana 2-step self-Darkness SC (Hi > Hi) that doesn't require Kikoku/Blade: Metsu. For most situations SCing with others, Ten is a good substitute - but you'll get occasional oddball WS that will do darkness with Hi but not with Ten (Coronach, Wildfire, Cloudsplitter...)
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 7861
By Asura.Sechs 2020-02-24 01:17:36  
Mummu+2, if you use at least 2 pieces, also has the nice advantage of the AGI set bonus, bringing it even closer (sometimes even on par/above) other options because of that.
If Mummu ever gets a +3 version it's gonna be interesting for the Hands and Feet slots.

Capu is Cath Palug really above Yet+1? In which situations? Because other than Base Crit Rate +98ish% I can't think of anyting :x

Oh last but not least there's the Relic+3 head during Innin with the relative merits, but lol.
Can we still hope SE will swap head and feet augs on Relic or is it too late by now?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-02-24 07:52:45  
Sechs it's too late. They did white mage almost immediately. Same with beast. They completely ignored ninja complaints and I don't see them ever reconsidering at this point.
 Asura.Lunafreya
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Lunafreya
Posts: 510
By Asura.Lunafreya 2020-02-24 13:05:25  
This was discussed a few pages back but the optimal Metsu set is now the following?

ItemSet 371485

Still nothing that can unseat Grunfeld as far as I can tell.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2793
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-02-24 13:06:25  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Capu is Cath Palug really above Yet+1? In which situations? Because other than Base Crit Rate +98ish% I can't think of anyting :x

C.Palug can win if you're not capped acc. But yeah, I guess Yetshila/+1 is the better choice most of the time (and Yet+1 is what's in my default set).

Quote:
Can we still hope SE will swap head and feet augs on Relic or is it too late by now?

Square Enix: "Hey Ninjas, we're gonna have your job update focused on ninjutsu nukes!"

Everyone: "Nobody cares about ninjutsu nukes"

Square Enix (after updates nerf one of job's best nuke pieces): "Eh, guess we don't need to fix that. Nobody cares about ninjutsu nukes. Job's done here, let's make a new BST pet!"
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-02-24 13:26:50  
Asura.Lunafreya said: »
This was discussed a few pages back but the optimal Metsu set is now the following?

ItemSet 371485

Still nothing that can unseat Grunfeld as far as I can tell.

I think this is what I use besides the earrings. Easier to just use mache+1s instead of the conditional lugra da. But I guess I should pull those back in. Regal ring I think I use since no ring
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2793
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-02-24 13:50:00  
Asura.Lunafreya said: »
This was discussed a few pages back but the optimal Metsu set is now the following?

ItemSet 371485

Still nothing that can unseat Grunfeld as far as I can tell.

That's pretty close to my Metsu set.

Herculean vs. Kendatsuba:I use Ken+1 hands/feet, because Herculean Gloves/Boots need reeeeeally good augments (maybe even DM) to beat them. DEX+10/WSD+5% Herc are basically a close sidegrade to Ken+1, so we're talking about augments better than that. Herc body also needs good augs to beat Ken+1, but not quite as strong of augments as hands/feet would require (I have a lucky DM WSD+8%/DEX+14 Herc Vest, so I do use Herc in that slot)

Ears: Odr>Mache+1>Ishvara during the day (or if you don't want to mess with Lugra conditional nonsense).

Rings: Top rings are close to each other, but for Metsu I tend to get Epam > Gere > Karieyh+1 > Regal
[+]
 Asura.Lunafreya
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Lunafreya
Posts: 510
By Asura.Lunafreya 2020-02-24 13:53:09  
Interesting...I didn't even think that Ken +1 would be that close to Herc.

These are the augs I am working with.
Code
		body={ name="Herculean Vest", augments={'Accuracy+9 Attack+9','Weapon skill damage +4%','DEX+14','Attack+15',}},
		hands={ name="Herculean Gloves", augments={'Attack+16','Weapon skill damage +4%','DEX+11',}},
		legs={ name="Mochi. Hakama +3", augments={'Enhances "Mijin Gakure" effect',}},
		feet={ name="Herculean Boots", augments={'Accuracy+17','Weapon skill damage +4%','DEX+14','Attack+4',}},
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-02-24 14:19:09  
Thanks for the updated metsu set. Looks like mine is a little behind as well
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2793
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-02-24 14:22:10  
@Luna: Looks to me like your Herc body would clearly beat Ken+1.

Your hands and feet both look very close to Ken+1, basically a toss-up. I actually seem to get Ken+1 hands barely edging out your gloves more often than not, and your feet barely edging out Ken+1. Ken+1 gets slightly better if you're struggling for Acc.
[+]
 Asura.Lunafreya
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Lunafreya
Posts: 510
By Asura.Lunafreya 2020-02-24 14:38:47  
Cheers, Capu. Much appreciated.
 Asura.Aburaage
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 105
By Asura.Aburaage 2020-02-26 14:34:14  
Is Odr earring any better for Shun compared to NQ lugra earring?
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2793
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-02-26 23:40:14  
Asura.Aburaage said: »
Is Odr earring any better for Shun compared to NQ lugra earring?

Nope, Lugra should still win (during dusk-dawn, obviously). Lugra +1 > Lugra NQ > Odr > Mache +1.

Difference between Lugra NQ and Odr is REALLY small though, so if you think there's any chance of messing up the conditional dusk-dawn requirement it prob doesn't hurt to just err on the side of Odr.

Shun set on page 1 is mostly still up to date, with the exceptions of:
- C.Palug Stone replaces good ol' Jukukik Feather
- Gere Ring barely beats Ilabrat Ring
[+]
 Odin.Llewelyn
Offline
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Llewelyn
Posts: 2254
By Odin.Llewelyn 2020-02-28 00:36:00  
Odin.Llewelyn said: »
On the topic of ninja tanking, when casting Utsusemi: San with Fudo Masamune path C while you currently have 0 shadows up, will you gain an additional +70 enmity or +0 enmity on the spell from the Su5? Or am I mistaking the description of the augment and is it just +10 Enmity to each Utsusemi spell?
I'm a complete novice at testing Enmity, so let me know if I did something dumb to invalidate the test, but I finally got some RP on my Fudo Masamune after capping my neck so I decided to do a quick test. My Fudo Masamune is currently Rank 8, which has +3 Enmity per Utsusemi. NIN was wearing Emp Feet and Ambuscade Cape for +15 Enmity on :Ichi if it works while shadows are down.

Slept a bat on SCH/WHM. NIN/WHM and SCH/NIN cured the SCH/WHM and casted Utsusemi: Ichi (I gave the SCH 20% FC in gear to match the NIN's 20% FC from Job Points so their Utsusemis go off at the same time). Neither the NIN/WHM nor SCH/NIN have any enmity+ or enmity- merits or gear aside from the path C Fudo Masamune. Tried it 3 times with varying wait times on when I used Libra.

So unless I'm dumb, it looks like you'll gain the full benefit of the Enmity from path C Fudo Masamune on Utsusemi even while you have no shadows up? Only thing I can think of that would mess up the test is the varying Healing Magic skill between the NIN and SCH's Cures affecting Tranquil Heart's Enmity down on the Cure, but I'm not sure how much that would affect it.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 14
By Ehpik 2020-02-28 13:47:50  
Is Blade: Ten still a thing? Do we have an updated set for that?
 Asura.Lunafreya
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Lunafreya
Posts: 510
By Asura.Lunafreya 2020-03-05 13:38:20  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Asura.Aburaage said: »
Is Odr earring any better for Shun compared to NQ lugra earring?

Nope, Lugra should still win (during dusk-dawn, obviously). Lugra +1 > Lugra NQ > Odr > Mache +1.

Difference between Lugra NQ and Odr is REALLY small though, so if you think there's any chance of messing up the conditional dusk-dawn requirement it prob doesn't hurt to just err on the side of Odr.

Shun set on page 1 is mostly still up to date, with the exceptions of:
- C.Palug Stone replaces good ol' Jukukik Feather
- Gere Ring barely beats Ilabrat Ring

Are J.Haidate really the best option for Shun? I would think Samnuha would edge it out or does the DEX really make that much of a difference?
 Quetzalcoatl.Langly
Offline
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Langly
Posts: 652
By Quetzalcoatl.Langly 2020-03-05 14:00:47  
It's all about context.

Every gear set on the front page assumed capped accuracy and cRatio as a basis.
[+]
 Asura.Lunafreya
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Lunafreya
Posts: 510
By Asura.Lunafreya 2020-03-12 10:16:54  
Ehpik said: »
Is Blade: Ten still a thing? Do we have an updated set for that?

Still the best thing to spam in a party with Heishi if you're not worried about SCing I believe.


Also I joined the Heishi party, grats to me :)
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-03-12 11:13:28  
I've been in and out of buff parties while I was capping out my fudo masamune in dynamis, and Aeonic is just the better weapon overall even when you're devoid of buffs and you'd think metsu with attack bonus and aftermath would make a difference, aeonic still pulls ahead if you're utilizing blade Shun. With R14 Heishi and R15 Kikoku by comparison, aeonic has seemed too Win every time in a spam session. Metsu probably chains better though, so that's worth considering your group for extra SCD.

Anyways, ninja gets a pretty sweet upgrade in Lugra Earring +1(Aug). STR/DEX+16, DA+3% is a huge bonus for Ten/Shun/Metsu. Probably the first piece I consider upgrading, even if half of it is locked behind crappy unity and nighttime restrictions

And unless I'm mistaken, Sailfi Belt+1 just became BIS for Metsu as well. Ten too?
Offline
Posts: 5585
By SimonSes 2020-03-12 11:26:04  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I've been in and out of buff parties while I was capping out my fudo masamune in dynamis, and Aeonic is just the better weapon overall even when you're devoid of buffs and you'd think metsu with attack bonus and aftermath would make a difference, aeonic still pulls ahead if you're utilizing blade Shun. With R14 Heishi and R15 Kikoku by comparison, aeonic has seemed too Win every time in a spam session. Metsu probably chains better though, so that's worth considering your group for extra SCD.

Anyways, ninja gets a pretty sweet upgrade in Lugra Earring +1(Aug). STR/DEX+16, DA+3% is a huge bonus for Ten/Shun/Metsu. Probably the first piece I consider upgrading, even if half of it is locked behind crappy unity and nighttime restrictions

And unless I'm mistaken, Sailfi Belt+1 just became BIS for Metsu as well. Ten too?

Only slightly for Metsu. It's slightly less MA than Windbuffet, but with some fSTR, but only assuming you have positive fSTR in the first place.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-03-12 11:39:42  
ooh Metsu is a dex mod right. Not sure why I thought STR
First Page 2 3 ... 176 177 178 ... 225 226 227
Log in to post.