The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Agreed on this being a WS damage issue but there's a lot more that needs doing. NIN already has the defensive side of its role very well covered but like MNK before it needs serious help in the WS damage department. Ten/Shun/Ku/Hi/Metsu all need higher mods and higher floors.

Here's a few more ideas I have.

It still baffles me how NIN is completely absent from the Evasion Bonus and Critical Atk. Bonus traits; never understood why that is.

NIN also could use a unique job trait that reduces the amount of Utsusemi shadows enemy attacks remove, make it above subjob level to prevent it being abused. This trait could even prevent AoE spells/attacks from clearing Utsusemi in one shot. It could also give CE/VE for each Utsusemi shadow lost whenever Yonin is active, as that's kind of the point when Yonin is active.

Kakka: Ichi either needs a Ni tier or needs to scale it's Store TP with Ninjutsu Skill. Myoshu's Subtle Blow effect needs to break the cap and give Subtle Blow II.

Finally, and this one's a potential game changer for the job. I want to see NIN get a new job ability, they proved they can add new abilities when DRG got Spirit Bond so it can be done.

Kyōryoku (Cooperation) (Lv.95 NIN)
Forces the next self-target Ninjutsu spell to become area of effect but consume two Ninjutsu tools.
Cooldown: 2:00

There's quite a few applications for this. Under Yonin and used with Utsusemi: San this will give the NIN a massive hate spike. RUN can do this with Liement, Valiance and One for All so if they want to try bring NIN tanking back this would be a great hate tool. Alternatively, you could use it to give your front line a Store TP buff, a Subtle Blow buff (playing to the job's strengths) or better yet give everyone in the group Migawari to prevent a wipeout.

Ninja is perfectly viable, people tend to exxagerate and put things in a dichotomic way, something either pwns or sucks.

A little more WS damage is what NIN truly needs. The rest is just our wild dreams :D

Well to be fair Nin is probably tied with pld for last place. However at least PLD has a place.

Its the easiest fix yeah but leaves its other aspects lacking, much like mnks big adjustments were mostly just h2h related, lot of mnk jas are still pretty poor outside of the obvious like impetus/fw/chi blast though thats only due to merits

I think the fix to Monk was obvious and they had no choice but to address it there. With Ninja, idk. They are all into themes and lore, and it doesn't seem like they want to give us more dps potential as far as melee damage is concerned. We've asked about things like REMA shurikens in the past and they shot it down, claiming they have to balance both melee and daken damage (yeah okay).

The real issue is, there are just too many DD in this game. Just giving a DD more damage doesn't do anything to separate it from the pack. I.e. Corsair has something unique in Fighters and Samurai's roll, which puts it squarely above other DDs in it's class.

With Ninja, if we're following their own theme, we have to look at ways to make it's long lost art of ninjutsu useful. Something midbattle where sacrificing dps for uniqie buffs/debuffs/nukes would be right in line with their "cheap parlor tricks" theme they've been rolling with. Along with the point about evasion and crit bonus traits, NIN has no native MAB traits (gets burst traits), which is kind of odd. Also, every single ninjutsu debuff and buff (outside of Utsusemi) it outclass by another ability or spell in the game. Ninja just sits in no-man's-land right now, where other DDs offer more damage with similar survivability (Malignance) or better tanking with supplemental damage. It's a really bad place to be in, but it's actually a very very strong DD when buffed accordingly.

They should fix ninja tanking, make the job a nice hybrid dps/tank; there are too many DDs and only 2-3 tank jobs. The niche ninja used to occupy has been taken wholly by rune fencer. Some kind of magic/magical AoE mitigation that stacks with Utsusemi would go a long way towards that. I'd also like to see ninjitsu stack with other similar debuffs- Kurayami with Blind, Jubaku with Paralyze, etc. Give us a reason to use these spells again!

Tbh I don't feel as gloomy about ninja as I do paladin or even monk pre-update. Monk was a more obvious choice for direct damage buffs, being a heavy DD with no utility and lower damage. NIN is the weakest DD but it does enough damage to justify a spot, and has good survivability with lower enmity generation than most jobs. I play ninja because I love the job and it is tremendous fun.

I wasn't aware of that - really interesting. I guess there's some hope! Still pretty skeptical though, since a lot of Empy weapons/WS have awkward attributes that I've always thought were intentional. Gandiva/Jishnu's Radiance DEX (this is by far the worst since DEX does nothing for ranged; even ranged crits are AGI), Caladbolg/Torcleaver VIT, the weird STR/MND split on Farsha and Redemption and their related WS...

Rhongomiant is a particularly interesting one though, since the weapon has a VIT mod... but the associated WS of Camlann's Torment is 60%STR/60%VIT. Maybe Kannagi could remain AGI-only, but Hi get turned into AGI/DEX or AGI/STR!


Believe it or not, that was back at the August 3, 2017 update. So, almost a year and a half before the January 2019 start of the formal job updates. In contrast, the H2H 99% acc change was December 2018.

I know it feels like yesterday that we were ragging on the Boost disaster update. Honestly, I think that MNK update by itself, due to being so disappointing after having a lot of player anticipation, actually contributed a lot to the LOLMNK attitude from many people that was common until last month's update.


What do you think of adding NIN to the brand new (and currently DRG only) WS Damage Bonus trait? That's certainly one way, and it would be easy for the devs to implement - always have to consider that they operate with minimal resources, so we probably shouldn't expect anything requiring extensive development work.

I also think that the Divergence weapons' tying an offensive boost to number of active shadows was a pretty clever way to both tie in lore (multiple ninja copies attacking at once!), and to balance the need to use positioning and low enmity (synergy with Innin/Yain) to not be able to lean on it too much while tanking, and just to give an actual reason to keep shadows up even if playing as a total DD when you aren't too worried about getting hurt (e.g., no real killer AoEs, fine to just get Curagaed along with the rest of the frontline).

Maybe they could do something similar for NIN regardless of weapon, in giving some sort of WSD or TP Bonus based on number of active shadows with Innin up?

Anyone excited for the new throwing lockstyle for daken? lol

That most certainly is a “ranged” slot throwing item and not the “ammo” slot. Basically a colorful chakram. Ammunition in Ffxi has no graphic, outside of the item description. It just fires off and you never see it. Only weapons have distinct graphics. Daken cannot activate from the ranged slot, since shurikena can only occupy the ammo spot (that would be kind of cool though if Daken COULD work from the ranged slot).

No lock for us (would be nice if they did allow that kind of graphic, reminiscent of Yuffie from FF7)

Shuriken actually do have a few (three?) different visible models when thrown through /ra or Daken. You can preview them pretty easily using /aim <t> emote or getting caught with terror at the right time. Knife-like* shuriken (Hachiya, Suppa, Koga, etc.) have an invisible model , Three-pointed shuriken (Iga \& Fuma) have three-pointed shuriken models, and the rest (Seki, Happo, Togakushi, etc.) have four-pointed shuriken models.

This is another reason I want them to add REMA shuriken. We all know lockstyle is the true end-game.

I’ve actually never noticed that on Daken tough to be fair it’s too fast and I never payed attention to it. Could also e because I mostly use happo +1 and it shows nothing. I’m probably missing it behind my galka frame . That’s good to know.

That aside, I still don’t think that ranged piece is ammunition but rather chakram. Be nice if it was

I also mostly use Happo +1, and I definitely see the animation on my mithra. Animation does get cut off a lot when at capped attack speed though (like, I'll see the shuriken come out and my arm pull back, but not follow through before the next mainhand swing animation starts). To get a better look at the throwing animation, single wield and go hit something without haste buffs.

Or, it's because you're galka. LOL ;)

Hey so... are we using /DRG over /WAR now?

Very quick testing, but just modifying a spreadsheet and reflecting DA-10% (on TP and WS), and changing the WS Data to multiply final WS damage by 1.07 (since /DRG trait is 7% WSD on all hits of a WS, not just first) looks like /DRG is pretty consistently ahead on DPS using any WS. I didn't even factor in DRG getting 15% Conserve TP.

Whether or not you're making use of Berserk is a factor that will impact the results. Could weigh in favor of going /WAR, IF:

(1) you aren't already atk capped from other buffs (but hey everyone here assumes capped attack on everything anyway...);

(2) you are using Berserk nearly all of the time it is available (3:00 of every 5:00, excluding JA resets). If you're using only occasionally, while things obviously vary based on your actual usage, /DRG is probably either flat out better DPS, or very similar DPS with no defensive penalty; and

(3) you are comfortable accepting the defensive penalty of Berserk. Even on NIN with shadows and Migawari, that isn't always something I'm OK with when I might get smacked with painful AoEs.

Aside from offense, each job offers some different utility perks. /DRG High Jump is nice to shed hate. /WAR has Provoke if you need that (and Defender if you want to be able to pop that while tanking and less concerned with DPS). Personally, I think I'm leaning toward NIN/DRG when playing as a total DD, and would use NIN/WAR if I was expecting to do any significant tanking during any part of the event.

Any updated gearsets now with malignance in them?

Ty in advance!

The forum is kicking my buns recently.


I looked at it, but then just didn't follow through. Happy to change if something stands out though.

Malignance will show up in DT-/Meva and hybrid sets, I'd 5/5 it for those purposes and rework some other pieces. Nice boost in DPS over the previous more hybrid or defense focused sets. Malignance was an even bigger upgrade for some other jobs, but NIN already had the combo of good offensive stats and high Meva in Kendatsuba +1 (and Utsusemi/Migawari take care of a lot of safety issues)... but still, DT- and higher Meva is nice.

Malignance body, hands, legs are also BiS Macc gear - replacing Mummu +2. Hachiya +3 head/feet are still better though.

From an offensive perspective:
Malignance doesn't beat the previous BiS pieces (any Ken+1 piece, Adhemar +1 head/hands, etc.). Even with capped attack that allows you to take full advantage of the PDL+ on Maligance, Ken+1 is still slightly ahead (though can be really close, and at that level may be a wise choice for the defensive perks).

If you aren't capped on attack, Malignance falls significantly behind the better options in every slot.

Let's be honest though, unless you have MEGA buffs, you're probably not capping attack on serious content with NIN, especially with Malignance having no attack and relatively low STR. So, default NIN TP sets should still be using the previously suggested pieces.

The above appears to be the case for all weapons - even Nagi (noted since sometimes people like to prioritize STP over multiattack for Mythics). I've done some quick spreadhseet tests and that appears to be the case, but if anyone believes otherwise and can support that with some data, by all means please share.

Despite the DPS hit from Malignance, you might still want to use it in situations where there is especially dangerous AoE or other attacks that Utsusemi does not protect against. Especially the case if that damage is physical/breath - but as a general rule of thumb, I'd also probably just stick with 5/5 Ken+1 when dealing with primarily magic damage. Ken+1 doesn't have the DT- that Malignance does, but you still get a lot of Meva that should be sufficient to protect you in most magic-heavy situations while retaining better DPS. But obviously, somewhat depends on situation and how much damage you're taking - if it's really rough, the DT- on Malignance may be helpful.

ty!

How does Gokotai rank as a non-REMA option? Haven’t seen much about it in this thread going back to around the time the final ambu weapons were released.

It's an excellent offhand weapon! xD
But clearly that wasn't your question.

I'm not sure, I think it's probably the best non REMA option, worse than Heishi Shorinken, likely worse than Kikoku too.
Discussion is more open when it comes to Nagi and Kannagi.

For Nagi it's surely better than R0 Nagi, I honestly doubt even R15 can be better but I can't say.

For Kannagi uuuh, wild guess Gokotai might be better than Kannagi in general, except those specific situations where Kannagi trumps even over Heishi/Kikoku. At least in those situations I'm confident Kannagi will win over Gokotai.


There's also the Divergence Katana, I think they stand in a similar place, with the Divergence one probably being better but, at the same time, likely not worth the price difference.

So tl;dr it’s a good weapon to grab if you don’t have any rema and a pulse weapon sitting around collecting dust? xD

I would say so! The problem is more about NIN as a job being good or bad, rather than Gokotai, which is undoubtedly a nice weapon

I made my gokotai among the first because I had pulses lying around and I’ma sucker for ninja but. The weapon as a main hand is useful. I toyed around with it briefly on Gin and on the way up, and by far the most attractive piece of it is the DW<->Regain option. I haven’t used out since they fixed the regain modifier recently, but any time you’re getting excessive down time (or just using DW gear in general), it’s good. Low buffs, it’s actually pretty good since the extra tp offsets your lack of haste . Shun is better of course but that extra tp means you can start off fights with a huge blade: whatever and then ride the dps from there.

From an ambuscade weapon perspective it’s below polearm dagger sword and axe priority, but as a ninja it’s going to fit nicely in main or sub slot. There’s also nothing stopping you from using blade:ten if you have a lot of overflow from the DW. So there are some “tactical” use of it. Blade:ku is actually competitive with buffs (competitive as in other non rema options).

Let me switch gears briefly to theorycraft a different strategy.
We have been seeing a lot of videos lately of people soloing some pretty impressive bosses . Many have asked in threads the best setup to accomplish some of these solos. NIN is no slouch in this department either, but in different ways.

I was wondering if anyone has tried to make a Ninjutsu-Wheel Free nuke strategy viable on anything? It used to be a very good strat back in the day, but has since fallen from grace. After watching a NIN Tutorial Video on Youtube (the guy does great videos for those looking to learn about NIN), he mentioned something about Ninjutsu that I have never heard brought up before. Spamming the NIN wheel does not feed any TP to the target(?). If that is true, then it opens up some interesting no-tp-feed options, similar to what RDM can do with enspells.

Between the "spin the wheel" strategy, NIN debuffs, their endless shadow count and Yurin, I wonder if this is something to consider. We normally just engage on NIN because their damage is so pathetic compared to others, and we wouldn't dare opt to nuke vs doing a multi-step SC. But I would be interested to see a solo or even a group geared behind super-buffing a NIN (magic wise) and letting him sit back and spam NIN nukes in quick succession.

Anyone know if this has ever been attempted recently on anything modern?

I do not think it works that way. But I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise.

Any magical damage (should) give the same 100 TP cut if half with dAGI and then subtle blow. It would give like 15 tp per spell if you wore SBII gear while nuking.

The only thing that doesn't is bloodpacts I think

(woah, that's like 2005 strats for UO, ninwheel definitely gave them TP)

And Quickdraw, which is 0.

Just verified, ninjutsu gives TP ill post a SS in a sec after I edit my name out of the 90 casts....