The Beast Within -- A Guide To Blue Mage

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The Beast Within -- A Guide to Blue Mage
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-19 14:07:03  
Sudden lunge has what effect on the recast of sinker drill?
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-10-19 14:07:41  
also never use timer/recast/timestamp plugins to gauge recast times in these sorts of things, use the spell menu recast timer.
 Asura.Highwynn
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-19 14:10:26  
Quote:
if you compare these two and say they're the same situation then lol.


I was comparing these spells to Quadratic/Quadra because like those spells, Sinker Drill is stronger and has better mods than Thrashing and is less MP. Quadra was released after Continuum like how Sinker was released after Thrashing, yet Continuum and Sinker are both stronger, less MP and faster recast than Quadrastrike and Thrashing Assault respectively. Maybe not to the same extreme degree as Sinker/Thrasing but there's still a similar trend. Also Quadrastrike was shown to only crit during Chain Affinity, no?
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-10-19 14:12:00  
did you read the entire post or what
 Asura.Highwynn
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-19 14:12:31  
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Sudden lunge has what effect on the recast of sinker drill?


It keeps me alive? I was casting these naked and the targets are lvl 114-115 and they hit me for 600+. I just noticed Sinker's recast when Job Point farming or otherwise I'd do it on a safer target.
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-19 14:16:36  
Okay I reread it, sorry I see what you mean now. At any rate, either SE originally had Sinker to be even stronger and they nerfed it before release to be its current strength, or they screwed up and we'll get an emergency maintenance soon, or they made an error on both the teaser and the version update notes.

It's not uncommon for SE to get timers wrong, afterall, Fly High was originally said on the teaser and version update to be 45 seconds(it's 30) and when I posted it as a bug on their forums they basically said something along the lines of: "Yeah we changed it at the last second but didn't bother to tell you -- too bad".
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-19 14:18:00  
Asura.Highwynn said: »
Quote:
Sudden lunge has what effect on the recast of sinker drill?


It keeps me alive? I was casting these naked and the targets are lvl 114-115 and they hit me for 600+. I just noticed Sinker's recast when Job Point farming or otherwise I'd do it on a safer target.

In your screenshot there are 3 sinker drills cast, the least time between them is 17 seconds. You also have 2 songs and a samba active, we can't see your subjob or job traits, and /lockstyle is a thing. Reread what I wrote on the last page about what your screenshot does and doesn't prove. BG-Wiki spell recast

Edit: /DNC is assumed, obviously because of the samba, just making a point on what is/isn't shown.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2014-10-19 14:25:00  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Going by the screenshot, march wears AFTER the first sinker, so it would have affected the recast, a possible 2nd march isn't in the log at all, your gear and current buffs aren't shown at all, and it's still 17 seconds between casts. Recast reduction can reach at least 80% (there is some debate if that is the actual cap) 75 second base recast with 80% reduction is 15 seconds. I'm not saying that your screenshot proves it's 75 seconds, but it sure doesn't disprove it.

There's no reason to haggle him- anyone that's played BLU since Sinker Drill came out and uses the recast plugin can confirm that it definitely isn't a 75 second recast >_>
 Asura.Highwynn
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-19 14:26:52  
It was 17 seconds due to the only buff being Ionis which gives 2% haste and some amount of fast cast. The recast seems to be 20 second base. Can I go back to job point farming now? :/





 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-19 14:30:36  
There you go, those screenshots show it's obviously mis-reported.
 Asura.Highwynn
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-19 14:32:34  
Was about to say inb4 photoshopped.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-19 14:34:55  
Asura.Highwynn said: »
Was about to say inb4 photoshopped.

No, I wasn't questioning you, I was just pointing out that the screenshots you posted as proof didn't show anything conclusive.
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-19 14:38:04  
No I know, I just was resistant to doing a REAL test because I was cozy in Ra'kaznar so I tried to improvise and cancel buffs (those green songs icons are Ballads btw). At any rate, even with capped cast reduction, I doubt you could get a 75second spell to 5 seconds, hell even Stun can't go that low without -recast staff and it has a 45second recast.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-19 14:44:09  
BLU couldn't for sure, but there seems to be some question if 80% is actually the cap for recast reduction. Either way, the additional test wasn't necessary, multiple people reported it, but at least now there is no question.
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-19 15:04:45  
Anyone have a good gearswap for blu? Having trouble with gearsets for physical spells since the OP doesn't have optimized sets for spells or various low acc/high scenarios for physical spells.

Also if acc is irrelvant, would cheruski needle be the better ammo for cdc? 2 less dex and 4 less acc but 3str?
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2014-10-19 15:37:07  
The feather is always better.
 Asura.Keja
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By Asura.Keja 2014-10-19 15:57:09  
Wow highwynn, you're broke!
[+]
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-10-19 16:13:29  
Asura.Highwynn said: »
Anyone have a good gearswap for blu? Having trouble with gearsets for physical spells since the OP doesn't have optimized sets for spells or various low acc/high scenarios for physical spells.

Also if acc is irrelvant, would cheruski needle be the better ammo for cdc? 2 less dex and 4 less acc but 3str?


its a DEX AUG WS SO NO. >>
[+]
 Asura.Highwynn
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-20 11:43:24  
Back in the day of abyssea/voidwatdh, the paradigm for merits was 5/5 chain affinity recast and 5/5 physical potency, 5/5 assimilation 4/5 enchainment, and 1/5 diffusion. Now i see it's 5/5 phys and magic, 5/5 diffusion and assimilaton. Is the extra diffusion really worth it for the long duration haste ii aoe( assuming dds are capped anyway from marches/geo haste/haste1?) Wouldnt a lower duration chain affinity help damage more since a CA sinker drll can do upwards of 6-8k? Or is chain affinity still a dps loss at high haste?
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By Sylph.Oraen 2014-10-20 15:34:25  
I am by no means an expert, but CA has always felt to be more of a solo ability than anything to be used in high-tier group content. Even with the high damage that a CA or CA/Efflux Sinker Drill can pull out, you sacrifice your TP, melee hits, and time to activate the abilities and cast the spell. Especially when you're heavily buffed, that little bit of time will start to add up. Also, for diffusion, don't forget that we can use diffusion for other things when DDs are haste capped, such as harden shell for bonus defense or Nature's Meditation for a stronger and longer-lasting warcry.
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-10-20 15:36:46  
Asura.Highwynn said: »
Back in the day of abyssea/voidwatdh, the paradigm for merits was 5/5 chain affinity recast and 5/5 physical potency, 5/5 assimilation 4/5 enchainment, and 1/5 diffusion. Now i see it's 5/5 phys and magic, 5/5 diffusion and assimilaton. Is the extra diffusion really worth it for the long duration haste ii aoe( assuming dds are capped anyway from marches/geo haste/haste1?) Wouldnt a lower duration chain affinity help damage more since a CA sinker drll can do upwards of 6-8k? Or is chain affinity still a dps loss at high haste?

Personally I kept CA 5/5 mainly because I use it when A: other people die and I need to Skillchain or B: a few extra seconds on a buff aint make or break.
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By Asura.Isiolia 2014-10-20 16:43:26  
Asura.Highwynn said: »
Is the extra diffusion really worth it for the long duration haste ii aoe( assuming dds are capped anyway from marches/geo haste/haste1?) Wouldnt a lower duration chain affinity help damage more since a CA sinker drll can do upwards of 6-8k? Or is chain affinity still a dps loss at high haste?

I think Diffusion may have become more appealing to 5/5 when augmented Relic +2 came along (and reforged in turn) due to doubling the benefit from doing so. Being able to AoE a buff also adds to your bag of tricks, and it's the only way we can increase duration too.

While doing that does impact CA, it's not the timer. CA recast is category 1, so the tradeoff (as you mentioned) is Physical Potency and Magic Accuracy.

The real tradeoff with Diffusion is, again like you mentioned, losing the Enchainment merits. Could be something that depends on spell, I guess? I'm not sure what the actual difference in damage would be.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-10-20 16:54:13  
Potential benefits of diffusion outweigh the extra 40 tp every couple mins. Longer duration buffs = less time spent reapplying, let alone the benefits to your party members

Unless saving for sc, should be using chain affinity on cooldown with thrashing and sinker. Same for efflux
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-20 17:20:46  
Asura.Isiolia said: »
Asura.Highwynn said: »
Is the extra diffusion really worth it for the long duration haste ii aoe( assuming dds are capped anyway from marches/geo haste/haste1?) Wouldnt a lower duration chain affinity help damage more since a CA sinker drll can do upwards of 6-8k? Or is chain affinity still a dps loss at high haste?

I think Diffusion may have become more appealing to 5/5 when augmented Relic +2 came along (and reforged in turn) due to doubling the benefit from doing so. Being able to AoE a buff also adds to your bag of tricks, and it's the only way we can increase duration too.

While doing that does impact CA, it's not the timer. CA recast is category 1, so the tradeoff (as you mentioned) is Physical Potency and Magic Accuracy.

The real tradeoff with Diffusion is, again like you mentioned, losing the Enchainment merits. Could be something that depends on spell, I guess? I'm not sure what the actual difference in damage would be.

It's just a different playstyle, group vs solo. Enchainment is only going to benefit your chained spell and skillchain, how often are you able to effectively skillchain a spell in a group?
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-20 17:32:33  
I figured with all the fudos going around, a ca+sinker is likely to make darkness off *something*. Also chain affinity doesnt just let the spell sc, it also drastically increases its potency and enchainment adds what like 60% TP bonus at 4/5 if you cast sith Luhlaza Jubbah+1(which reminds me, was Moonshade Earring ever shown to work for CA or Efflux spells?)

If going for a pure damage build, would think having CA more often would increase dps since it can give you pretty respectable damage when its up(i've done some 8-10k sinkers with it).
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-20 17:37:08  
TP bonus gear doesn't work on spells, would SD even chain with Fudo? I haven't looked at the properties.
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2014-10-20 17:43:15  
It should make Darkness with Fudo.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-10-20 17:45:10  
You're not accounting for gained white damage from less time spent reapplying a buff, i dont think. That extra tp is going to break even or fall short of that extra dps while not providing any benefit to your team mates.
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By Asura.Highwynn 2014-10-20 17:48:45  
I suppose but....I there aren't very many targets that last longer than 5minutes(would think the only buff that would need to be recast mid-fight that's also worth using with Diffusion is Erratic Flutter). But I see your point.
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