Firemen Watch House Burn Down

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2010-06-21
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Firemen watch house burn down
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 Asura.Eeek
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By Asura.Eeek 2010-10-08 11:05:46  
Caitsith.Mahayaya said:
Sylph.Washburn said:
My department also does an ambulance service, I know exactly what you're talking about with the hospital costs. Our return rate is only like 40%, meaning only 40% of the people that want a ride to the hospital pay their bill, which is why i'ts $600 base + $9 / mile.

haha, reminds me of something I saw the other day. Some dude was lying in the middle of the double yellow lines of the road. No car around, so I know it wasn't an accident. I stop and start to get out but see a police car pull up. Policeman gets out and starts yelling at the dude to get up. He hops right up, and an ambulance shows up in less than a minute and takes him to the hospital. I'm pretty damn certain that dude won't be paying a dime for 1. the ambulance ride and 2. whatever medical treatment he receieved.

I work in accounting at a local hospital, and we see the exact same thing with uninsured ER patients. We only recover roughly 35% of the costs of their treatment. Most people make some attempt to pay down their bills, but the majority of them never pay the full amount they owe.

The bills do get paid though. All of you pay them in one way or another. Maybe it's in tax revenue from the local/county/state level. Maybe the money comes from budget cuts in other social programs. Some of the money certainly comes from increased charges for medical services, equipment, and medication dispersed during the course of in-hospital treatment.

Believe you me, the bills do get paid. By everyone.
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 Cerberus.Zandra
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By Cerberus.Zandra 2010-10-08 11:06:15  
Caitsith.Mahayaya said:
Sylph.Washburn said:
My department also does an ambulance service, I know exactly what you're talking about with the hospital costs. Our return rate is only like 40%, meaning only 40% of the people that want a ride to the hospital pay their bill, which is why i'ts $600 base + $9 / mile.

haha, reminds me of something I saw the other day. Some dude was lying in the middle of the double yellow lines of the road. No car around, so I know it wasn't an accident. I stop and start to get out but see a police car pull up. Policeman gets out and starts yelling at the dude to get up. He hops right up, and an ambulance shows up in less than a minute and takes him to the hospital. I'm pretty damn certain that dude won't be paying a dime for 1. the ambulance ride and 2. whatever medical treatment he receieved.

Ever wonder why it costs 300 dollars to get a 15 minute consult with any regular doctor? This is exactly why. Of course regular doctors don't bill out @ 1200/hr, but you're paying for all the dead beats who are irresponsible and don't pay.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-10-08 11:06:50  
Sylph.Washburn said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Quote:
Our return rate is only like 40%, meaning only 40% of the people that want a ride to the hospital pay their bill, which is why i'ts $600 base + $9 / mile.
Which is why I know the very important words "I have the right to refuse medical treatment"
Which is also why you get charged $100 just to have an ambulance show up. I work in central Florida, and not that this is turning into a racial discussion, but there's a LOT of lower class spaish people where I work, and they're, for the most part, not educated. With that being said, i'm assuming that is the reason for 911 being called for non emergency situations such as: nausea, chronic back pain, broken fingers / toes. minor scrapes / bumps, siezures (not for the siezure, but to have us to protect them from swallowing their tongue[multiple occasions on this one lol]) Point being, why call 911, wait 7+ minutes for an ambulance for a non emergency when you have 4+ cars in the driveway, when you could have just either drove yourself, or had one of your family members drive you to the hospital? Honestly, half the calls we just do paperwork en route to the hospital and make small talk with the patient while the family follows 3' off our rear bumper.
Oh, I'd never call the ambulance myself. I mean if someone else called them and they showed up expecting me to get in. And if they want to call me $100 over someone else calling them, they can take the bill up with that person, too, because they'd never see a dime from me.
 Sylph.Washburn
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By Sylph.Washburn 2010-10-08 11:07:41  
Asura.Calatilla said:
Sylph.Washburn said:
If you live somewhere where Fire supression / EMS response / Vehicle accident and general rescue are free services, you either live in an area with heavy volunteer activity that recieve money from selling krispy kreme doughnuts, or stand at 4-way's with a jar asking for money, or you are sadly mistaken. Today, the average "New" Fire Engine costs about $300,000. I, however work on an aerial apparatus that is designed for commercial suppression, high angle rescues, and because of this the truck was $700,000 then comes the cost of getting neccesary gear on the truck. You've got to look at hose, which depending on size is different pice per foot. Usually a residential attack line which is 1 3/4" in diameter comes in 50' sections. Each section costs about $100. If you live in a suburban setting where the house has like a 30' driveway you still need at least 150' of hose to go from the truck and wind through the house as needed, not to mention a secondary line for backup, which is state mandated where I live. You also have the nozzles, which are several hundred dollars. Then you have a set of turnout gear for each firefighter that costs about $2000, with an average crew of 3 men per truck. You still need supply hose to go from a hydrant to the engine. Most trucks carry 1000' of 5". If you're in a rural setting, like these folks, and there are no hydrants, you need a tanker truck to shuttle water back and forth from a water source to the fire scene. There's still the cost of equipment to ventilate as needed, fans, chainsaws, pike poles, haligan tools. You need rescue equipment like the jaws of life, shears, rams, hydraulic power unit. There's another 30 grand. You still need a station, electric service, Water service, station supplies, equipment maintenance costs such as oil changes, tires, repairs on things that break, insurance. The list of costs of a basic fire department go on and on. Expecting to get it as a courtesy is beyond a joke.
In the UK we pay taxes for services like that, its all included, police, fire, ambulance. You cant put a value on human life just because the local mayor wants to make a few extra dollars on the side.
It's like that in almost all places in the US, with the exception of very rural areas where it's all volunteer run departments. My county I work for charges ALL homeowners $79 / year for fire dept. services, which include everything from cutting you out of a mangled vehicle, to changing the batteries in your smoke detector. It's the smart way to go for any government.
 
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By 2010-10-08 11:10:48
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 Sylph.Washburn
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By Sylph.Washburn 2010-10-08 11:11:42  
Cerberus.Zandra said:
Caitsith.Mahayaya said:
Sylph.Washburn said:
My department also does an ambulance service, I know exactly what you're talking about with the hospital costs. Our return rate is only like 40%, meaning only 40% of the people that want a ride to the hospital pay their bill, which is why i'ts $600 base + $9 / mile.
haha, reminds me of something I saw the other day. Some dude was lying in the middle of the double yellow lines of the road. No car around, so I know it wasn't an accident. I stop and start to get out but see a police car pull up. Policeman gets out and starts yelling at the dude to get up. He hops right up, and an ambulance shows up in less than a minute and takes him to the hospital. I'm pretty damn certain that dude won't be paying a dime for 1. the ambulance ride and 2. whatever medical treatment he receieved.
Ever wonder why it costs 300 dollars to get a 15 minute consult with any regular doctor? This is exactly why. Of course regular doctors don't bill out @ 1200/hr, but you're paying for all the dead beats who are irresponsible and don't pay.

Absolutly, that's why you HAVE to have insurance now-a-days, even then you still have to pay a co-pay, but it's better than the alternative. My department, on repeat offenders, will put a lein against your property if you call 911 all the time and never pay for the services. Sad resolution, but not using common sense is expensive as hell sometimes.
 Asura.Eeek
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By Asura.Eeek 2010-10-08 11:12:14  
Asura.Calatilla said:
Sylph.Washburn said:


If you live somewhere where Fire supression / EMS response / Vehicle accident and general rescue are free services, you either live in an area with heavy volunteer activity that recieve money from selling krispy kreme doughnuts, or stand at 4-way's with a jar asking for money, or you are sadly mistaken.

Today, the average "New" Fire Engine costs about $300,000. I, however work on an aerial apparatus that is designed for commercial suppression, high angle rescues, and because of this the truck was $700,000 then comes the cost of getting neccesary gear on the truck. You've got to look at hose, which depending on size is different pice per foot. Usually a residential attack line which is 1 3/4" in diameter comes in 50' sections. Each section costs about $100. If you live in a suburban setting where the house has like a 30' driveway you still need at least 150' of hose to go from the truck and wind through the house as needed, not to mention a secondary line for backup, which is state mandated where I live. You also have the nozzles, which are several hundred dollars. Then you have a set of turnout gear for each firefighter that costs about $2000, with an average crew of 3 men per truck. You still need supply hose to go from a hydrant to the engine. Most trucks carry 1000' of 5". If you're in a rural setting, like these folks, and there are no hydrants, you need a tanker truck to shuttle water back and forth from a water source to the fire scene. There's still the cost of equipment to ventilate as needed, fans, chainsaws, pike poles, haligan tools. You need rescue equipment like the jaws of life, shears, rams, hydraulic power unit. There's another 30 grand. You still need a station, electric service, Water service, station supplies, equipment maintenance costs such as oil changes, tires, repairs on things that break, insurance.

The list of costs of a basic fire department go on and on. Expecting to get it as a courtesy is beyond a joke.

In the UK we pay taxes for services like that, its all included, police, fire, ambulance. You cant put a value on human life just because the local mayor wants to make a few extra dollars on the side.


The mayor isn't making a few extra dollars on the side. We're talking about a man's property outside of the fire department's city limits. He wasn't paying a dime in taxes to support the fire department and its services. The city, in its benevolence, offers a voluntary program to extend the city's fire department services to residents and property owners living outside the city limits for a small fee, or tax if you will, of $75 a year.

This man in question decided not to pay for fire coverage, and once it was clear that no human life was at risk, his property was allowed to burn. He chose not to pay for fire protection, so no fire fighting services were extended to his property. The man gambled and lost. I don't see the problem with it.
 Sylph.Washburn
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By Sylph.Washburn 2010-10-08 11:15:27  
Asura.Eeek said:
Asura.Calatilla said:
Sylph.Washburn said:
If you live somewhere where Fire supression / EMS response / Vehicle accident and general rescue are free services, you either live in an area with heavy volunteer activity that recieve money from selling krispy kreme doughnuts, or stand at 4-way's with a jar asking for money, or you are sadly mistaken. Today, the average "New" Fire Engine costs about $300,000. I, however work on an aerial apparatus that is designed for commercial suppression, high angle rescues, and because of this the truck was $700,000 then comes the cost of getting neccesary gear on the truck. You've got to look at hose, which depending on size is different pice per foot. Usually a residential attack line which is 1 3/4" in diameter comes in 50' sections. Each section costs about $100. If you live in a suburban setting where the house has like a 30' driveway you still need at least 150' of hose to go from the truck and wind through the house as needed, not to mention a secondary line for backup, which is state mandated where I live. You also have the nozzles, which are several hundred dollars. Then you have a set of turnout gear for each firefighter that costs about $2000, with an average crew of 3 men per truck. You still need supply hose to go from a hydrant to the engine. Most trucks carry 1000' of 5". If you're in a rural setting, like these folks, and there are no hydrants, you need a tanker truck to shuttle water back and forth from a water source to the fire scene. There's still the cost of equipment to ventilate as needed, fans, chainsaws, pike poles, haligan tools. You need rescue equipment like the jaws of life, shears, rams, hydraulic power unit. There's another 30 grand. You still need a station, electric service, Water service, station supplies, equipment maintenance costs such as oil changes, tires, repairs on things that break, insurance. The list of costs of a basic fire department go on and on. Expecting to get it as a courtesy is beyond a joke.
In the UK we pay taxes for services like that, its all included, police, fire, ambulance. You cant put a value on human life just because the local mayor wants to make a few extra dollars on the side.
The mayor isn't making a few extra dollars on the side. We're talking about a man's property outside of the fire department's city limits. He wasn't paying a dime in taxes to support the fire department and its services. The city, in its benevolence, offers a voluntary program to extend the city's fire department services to residents and property owners living outside the city limits for a small fee, or tax if you will, of $75 a year. This man in question decided not to pay for fire coverage, and once it was clear that no human life was at risk, his property was allowed to burn. He chose not to pay for fire protection, so no fire fighting services were extended to his property. The man gambled and lost. I don't see the problem with it.
BULLSEYE!
 Gilgamesh.Shayala
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By Gilgamesh.Shayala 2010-10-08 11:22:16  
He should have paid the fee. $75 dollars a year for peace of mind is not a lot to ask for.
If we in the UK had this sort of system I would make damned sure my fee was paid on time every year.
 
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By 2010-10-08 11:26:54
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 Kujata.Akeda
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By Kujata.Akeda 2010-10-08 11:39:31  
You guys are slow, this was like a couple of days ago.


I don't think all the blame falls on the fire dept though. The guy tried to beat the system and he lost. He knew the risks and decided not to pay thinking 'Why should I pay, they'll come out anyways'. He also lived OUTSIDE the city limits in the country AND the residents of the county he lived in voted against raising taxes to have their own fire dept. The city was nice enough to extend the curtsy of responding outside their jurisdiction for a small fee. $75 is probably not even enough to fill their fuel tanks.

You can't go and get insurance AFTER you have an accident and then get mad when they don't want to fix your car.


The firefighters also didn't drive out to his house just to watch it burn, his neighbor called saying the fire was spreading so they came out to his house since he paid his $75. I think since they were already there they should have put it out and they could bill him later, but it looks like the house was already a total loss anyways.
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 Leviathan.Erang
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By Leviathan.Erang 2010-10-08 11:49:45  
hey you dumb ***, we already pay for their services. where do you think their paycheck comes from? its called 'double dipping'. its kinda the same thing that goes on with the driver responsibility program, tickets and SR22 except they triple dip in that case!
 Leviathan.Erang
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By Leviathan.Erang 2010-10-08 11:54:43  
its kinda like this, if you saw an old lady with crutches and ***sitting on the side of the road trying to change a flat tire would you help or sit there and watch? same deal
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-10-08 11:55:41  
Leviathan.Erang said:
its kinda like this, if you saw an old lady with crutches and ***sitting on the side of the road trying to change a flat tire would you help or sit there and watch? same deal

She didn't pay for AAA!


On a side note, I've been seeing this woman with a sign, "Will work for food" around where I live. I usually only see her when I have an appointment or don't have time to stop, but I've always wanted to stop and have her clean up my apartment. To make sure she wouldn't spend the money on drugs, I'd probably take her to a grocery store and let her pick out however much money in ***she needs.

At first I thought that it was some sting operation, but she's too too dirty looking to be a cop.
 
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By 2010-10-08 12:00:05
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 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-10-08 12:13:56  
Leviathan.Erang said:
its kinda like this, if you saw an old lady with crutches and ***sitting on the side of the road trying to change a flat tire would you help or sit there and watch? same deal
I don't think an old lady with crutches would necessarily be on the road alone anyway.
I also doubt she would try to change a flat tire depending on how old school the said old lady is, she'd probably be inside her car trying to get a hold of someone on a telephone(or with some emergency button, old people have those), or she is at a location that she would easily get helped by someone.
If she's not in a more highly traffic'd area why the hell would I be there? I don't think I would be.
I know this was meant to just be a simple example determining morals, but my morals are based on my ability to make decisions. I would *** the situation in any case, or I wouldn't and I'd just drive past. Never know about those grandmas, they could be serial killers man.

On topic of the whole fire thing: No loss of life so I don't really see a problem in it.
 Sylph.Washburn
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By Sylph.Washburn 2010-10-08 12:29:30  
Leviathan.Erang said:
hey you dumb ***, we already pay for their services. where do you think their paycheck comes from? its called 'double dipping'. its kinda the same thing that goes on with the driver responsibility program, tickets and SR22 except they triple dip in that case!
Negative, Ghostrider.

Their paychecks come from the government funds which are budgetted prior to the new fiscal year, which is usually Oct. 1 for most places. Their paychecks along with any other city costs like parks, roadway maintenance, etc are all paid through this fund. The cooperation of everyone as a community depends on it. If you skip out on an optional service b/c you were trying to save $6 / month and risked your home and safety, well, need I say more?
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 Titan.Wombat
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By Titan.Wombat 2010-10-08 12:55:26  
Ramuh.Vinvv said:

On topic of the whole fire thing: No loss of life so I don't really see a problem in it.

You trying to say dogs and cats don't count as "life"?
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-10-08 12:56:21  
Kujata.Akeda said:
You can't go and get insurance AFTER you have an accident and then get mad when they don't want to fix your car.


this pretty much encapsulates it

i don't see the big deal
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-10-08 13:03:20  
Titan.Wombat said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:

On topic of the whole fire thing: No loss of life so I don't really see a problem in it.

You trying to say dogs and cats don't count as "life"?
I meant to specify human life, but I don't think it's really necessary.
You know what I mean anyway you silly goose.
Not like government figures deem animal life=human life anyway though.
 Sylph.Washburn
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By Sylph.Washburn 2010-10-08 13:12:01  
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Titan.Wombat said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
On topic of the whole fire thing: No loss of life so I don't really see a problem in it.
You trying to say dogs and cats don't count as "life"?
I meant to specify human life, but I don't think it's really necessary. You know what I mean anyway you silly goose. Not like government figures deem animal life=human life anyway though.
Had the pets payed their fee, they would have been rescued.
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 Titan.Wombat
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By Titan.Wombat 2010-10-08 13:12:31  
Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Not like animal life=human life anyway though.
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
you silly goose
You trying to say no one would care if I died in a fire?
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-10-08 13:13:30  
The fact that pets died upset me.
 Fenrir.Thandar
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By Fenrir.Thandar 2010-10-08 13:13:58  
This debate is dumb.

He didn't buy the service, so he doesn't get it.

*** that, I'm stealing Cable and internet because *** paying for it?
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 Titan.Wombat
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By Titan.Wombat 2010-10-08 13:15:57  
Sylph.Washburn said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Titan.Wombat said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
On topic of the whole fire thing: No loss of life so I don't really see a problem in it.
You trying to say dogs and cats don't count as "life"?
I meant to specify human life, but I don't think it's really necessary. You know what I mean anyway you silly goose. Not like government figures deem animal life=human life anyway though.
Had the pets payed their fee, they would have been rescued.
Dogs and cats rarely foresee the longterm consequences of their poor decisions. It's a plague, but PeTA has come up with a solution. Ask your local Vinvv for more details.
 Ifrit.Kungfuhustle
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2010-10-08 13:17:58  
you don't get what you don't pay for, its simple capitalism.
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 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-10-08 13:20:59  
Titan.Wombat said:
Sylph.Washburn said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Titan.Wombat said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
On topic of the whole fire thing: No loss of life so I don't really see a problem in it.
You trying to say dogs and cats don't count as "life"?
I meant to specify human life, but I don't think it's really necessary. You know what I mean anyway you silly goose. Not like government figures deem animal life=human life anyway though.
Had the pets payed their fee, they would have been rescued.
Dogs and cats rarely foresee the longterm consequences of their poor decisions. It's a plague, but PeTA has come up with a solution. Ask your local Vinvv for more details.
waaat? lol
they'd just euthanize em anyway. lol
 Ifrit.Kungfuhustle
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2010-10-08 13:22:07  
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Titan.Wombat said:
Sylph.Washburn said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Titan.Wombat said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
On topic of the whole fire thing: No loss of life so I don't really see a problem in it.
You trying to say dogs and cats don't count as "life"?
I meant to specify human life, but I don't think it's really necessary. You know what I mean anyway you silly goose. Not like government figures deem animal life=human life anyway though.
Had the pets payed their fee, they would have been rescued.
Dogs and cats rarely foresee the longterm consequences of their poor decisions. It's a plague, but PeTA has come up with a solution. Ask your local Vinvv for more details.
waaat? lol
they'd just take'em out back and shoot'em. lol
 Titan.Wombat
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By Titan.Wombat 2010-10-08 13:29:25  
True conspiracy theory:
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 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-10-08 13:32:26  
Titan.Wombat said:
True conspiracy theory:

lol
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