WHM Healing Speed And Potency

Red Mage is a good subjob for WHM.
Ranting on someone for using WHM/RDM is silly.
It's not like s/he is using WHM/PLD or something like that.


However, Scholar is a GREAT subjob for WHM.
Everything about WHM/SCH makes it the most versatile, efficient, and practical combination for WHM.

If you're serious about WHM, I'd level both subjobs.
If you're just a once-in-a-while WHM, and only want to level one subjob, /SCH is the better choice.
If you're only using WHM as a dual-boxed WHM, I guess /RDM might be slightly better.

for a 2boxed whm i'd still use /sch. and i don't think it was so much ranting about using whm/rdm as much as making bad arguments about it being better than /sch.

I find it hard to believe someone would really think /rdm is a better subjob choice for WHM than /sch. I think it's more likely that someone who already has /rdm leveled and doesn't want to be bothered with leveling /sch made up some excuses why s/he thinks /rdm is a better option.

Like I said, /rdm is a good choice. It's just that /sch is a *better* choice.

Light Arts grants increased casting speed, decreased MP cost, and decreased recast time for White Magic spells, and raises your Enhancing and Enfeebling Skills. You also gain access to Accession, Penury, and Celerity, and gain the utility of Sublimation. Also, you can use Sandstorm with Desert Boots to gain increased movement speed. Lastly, subbing SCH increases your resistance to Silence.

Subbing RDM gives the WHM a Fast Cast boost, Convert, Refresh, Dispel, and Gravity. There are times when these are practical, and if one doesn't have /sch, these things make /rdm the 2nd best option available.

Whm/sch also gets drain, aspir, and dispel. I believe the majority of whms forget that when in abyssea.

The only reason there was really a debate was because people were saying they prefer /RDM over /SCH and people in support of /SCH were trying to ask and find out why people feel /RDM was better suited for them.

Before I had /SCH leveled I was 100% aware (once I came back to the game and learned there was even a job called SCH) that /SCH would be the best choice for me, people here were arguing that it was not the preferred sub job for WHM and listing reasons as to why, whether or not they had /SCH leveled.



I'm guilty of this I hadn't realized /SCH got Dispel until one day I read on here

I don't really use it for Drain/Aspir anymore, those are pretty pointless in Abyssea. I do use it for Dispel quite a bit though if no one else is capable of doing Dispel.

Dark Arts is nice for Impact too, if you have a Twilight Cloak. I use Dark Arts to gain elemental skill, and with Parsimony it doesn't even take me under 1000 MP. Impact is actually pretty nice with Dark Arts up, since it doesn't resist quite as bad. I was using it last night on Carabosse, and it was not resisted at all, which meant the Attr Down effects lasted a LONG time. I generally cast Impact twice per battle to keep the Attr Down effect going. It was cool watching her use Winter Breeze and erase her CHR Down effect lol... nice going Carabosse!

VERY nice idea; I hadn't thought of that.

Actually, there is a major difference between a party/alliance WHM and a duo WHM in Abyssea. For a large group, I think /SCH is very useful. In a smaller group, or in a duo, I see a lot of /SCH's perks being superfluous or unnecessary:

The Enhancing Magic bonus from Light Arts is +21 Enhancing Magic skill, which has no effect on your bread and butter buffs, such as Protectra, Shellra, and Haste, and is unnecessary for Stoneskin.

Celerity is generally a waste of a strategem charge during a battle, unless a crucial party member has died without reraise. In a duo context, this would never happen; if your tank drops, and say you go around kiting in Herald's Gaiters, you can't stop to raise anyway. Additionally, Atma of the Apocalypse is a very popular atma these days.

Light Arts offers a 10% cast time and recast time reduction on White Magic; Fast Cast II offers a 15% cast time reduction and a 7.5% recast time reduction.

Many of WHM's buffs are already AoE or not accessionable, and with Afflatus Solace, the amount of Stoneskin generated (particularly in Abyssea and especially if you happen to use Orison Bliaud) from Cures limits the utility of Accession Stoneskin, especially in small groups. Accession seems better suited for status removal spells. WHM natively gets Divine Benison, lowering recasts of -na spells to barely over a second, and Afflatus Misery Esuna, which removes 2 status effects on its own; accession would require using both strategem charges to achieve the same effect. And to get really cheeky and technical, WHM can fall back on Divine Seal for Divine Veil. All that being said, in a small group, AoE-status removal is either unnecessary or impractical (from a strategem usage perspective). I would probably reserve Accession for Erase due to the relatively high recast on Erase.

For a Hume WHM, say in a Heroes zone, your HP is roughly 1600. 25% of that is 400. At a rate of 3MP/tic, it takes 6 and a half minutes to fully charge sublimation. So you could say ~600MP in 10 minutes. By comparison, Refresh I gives you 110 MP (net of MP cost) every 2 and a half minutes, and up to 1200MP (your max MP) every 10 minutes from convert. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you Divine Seal Cure V yourself, so net, you receive 1065MP. Total, that's 1505MP between Refresh and Convert.

Now if you consider that MP savings are directly analogous to MP recovered:

Let's look at Light Arts and use Cure VI as an example, since it's one of the highest MP cost spells a WHM can use, so by extension it generates the highest MP savings under Light Arts. Ignoring Conserve MP and Penury for a minute, you would have to cast 40 Cure VI's under Light Arts in 10 minutes to generate ~900 MP in savings to match /RDM.

Now let's look at Penury: using Cure VI again (highest MP cost), that's 100MP (Light Arts reduction) saved every 2 minutes, assuming you are exclusively devoting strategems to Penury. In total, a maximum 500MP saved in 10 minutes. To match /RDM, you would need an additional 400MP in MP savings generated from Light Arts or Conserve MP within 10 minutes, or ~15 Cure VI's.

For Conserve MP, the rule of thumb is 7MP saved for every 100MP spent, assuming no Conserve MP+ gear (a weighty assumption). You can do the calculations for yourself at this point for how many Cure VI's you'd have to cast to generate the desired level of MP savings.

The reality is you won't only be casting Cure VI. In 10 minutes, you'll be casting other, lower cost spells and using other strategems, including Addendum: Black for Dispel (which cuts into your strategem usage). Therefore the maximum amount of MP savings generated from /SCH is rarely the amount you'll actually realize.

Finally, with respect to Dark Arts, I can't vouch for the effectiveness of Aspir, but for the purposes of argument, I will assume that the enemy(ies) you're facing have no MP (a valid assumption). That leaves Drain, which is only relevant for self-healing.

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that /RDM is a better sub than /SCH. However, just throwing out a laundry list of gadgets /SCH has without actually considering the magnitude of their benefits doesn't really make a good argument for why /SCH is better.

Very thorough, quality analysis and detail, Eremes. +1 from me.

However, ultimately the part I quoted above is all that really matters. The fact remains that SCH is the best subjob for WHM, and RDM subjob is the next best choice.

I did mention in a previous post in this thread that when considering WHM just for a cure-bot dual-box type WHM, RDM subjob is more practical than it is for normal/party-role situations.

You may want to experiment with capping Cure Potency without the body slot so you can use Orison Bliaud +2 for cures. I personally find the additional 10% added to stoneskin more useful than adding a bit of MND for peak cure numbers. Of course, this means you'd either need every piece of cure potency gear minus Medicine Ring, assuming you dislike being at low HP. I can't agree with not using AF3 pants as an above poster said, 5% Cure Amount>MP is too nice. If you use Medicine Ring you have more options, but personally I like my WHMs full.

Agree.
Orison Bliaud +2 (with Solace active) is ideal ... IF you can achieve 49-50% Cure Potency without Noble's Tunic. If you can't, it's not worth it to swap Noble's for Orison +2.

To reach 49-50% Cure Potency without Noble's Tunic, you've gotta go with Surya's Staff +2 (22%), Fylgja Torque +1 (3%), Orison Cap +2 (10%), Orison Cape (3%), Orison Earring (2%), Serpentes Gloves/Boots set (5%) or Augur's Gloves (4%), and either Roundel Earring (5%) or augmented pants from Shantotto missions (5%). It's doable, but, as you mentioned, Orison Pants are hard to sacrifice, and Roundel Earring is really expensive.

Medicine Ring does make this a lot easier to accomplish ... but I think many WHMs would agree with us that it's both annoying and risky to play WHM "in the yellow" all the time.

Ultimately, unless S-E gives us options for Cure Potency in the Sub, Waist, and/or Feet slots, or adds more Magian Trials to raise the Cure Potency on Surya's Staff even further, Noble's Tunic is still the most practical Body choice for WHM.

I think that was a well thought out post Eremes but I would disagree with a number of things.

Without having enough time to fully dissect your post one large flaw/discrepancy I have with your argument is the Refresh vs Sublimation is that you can charge in between fights and get access to the pool of MP all at once vs having to keep recasting refresh on yourself for a very slow gradual gain in MP (which is barely noticeable when you're already getting +16 Refresh or more constantly without any spells or buffs) in my opinion the gain from refresh is not enough to MP make or break me running low on MP.

I've crunched the numbers many times and in many different ways, and I have to admit that /RDM almost always wins by a notable amount (a few hundred MP every 5-10 minutes). I agree with your approach and most of the conclusions you were able to draw.

However, there's one major oversight in your argument: MP savings apply to recovered & saved MP (meds, refresh, ballads, and even things like Conserve MP). This gives /SCH a huge advantage in Abyssea and party play, where the MP is constantly flowing in from sources other than the subjob. 15 MP/tick for a WHM/RDM might be the equivalent of 20 MP/tick or more for WHM/SCH because they can do more with it. Thus, you can't really compare MP saved with MP recovered, it's apples and oranges. MP you save once can actually be further saved again in the future.

maybe poorly worded on my part. change "it being better than" to "why they prefer /rdm to". a lot of people do in fact prefer /rdm to /sch, though, even having both subs leveled.

i think most of the /rdm vs /sch is pretty moot, because it doesn't make much difference either way. i prefer /sch. and alacrity aspir is great for woe.

does cureskin get bumped up the same amount with 10% from af3 and 10% from nobles or does it cap for nobles?

the amount of the cureskin given is 10% more if the cure potency % is the same amount on the Cure

It does however cap, and AF3+2 body breaks that cap. Given that the enhancement is unique as compared to Cure Potency, if I could cap elsewhere or even get close enough that the benefit of Noble's was reduced I'd swap to AF3+2 in a heartbeat. I'd even consider doing so sooner given the potential for overcuring, in which AF3+2 loses none of its benefit whereas Noble's could lose some of its value.

Ok, so basically this:



beats this:



It's a crazy expensive build though. Sounds like it's time to go to the past and own Yagudos again.

Technically, AF3+2 can lose it's benefit in the sense that if you don't take any dmg by the time the SS wears off, that extra is essentially wasted. How often that happens depends on your situation of course.

Why is anyone even talking about sublimation and refresh in abyssea anyway? I have duoed nearly everything under the sun and the only reason I EVER use sublimation is for waking me up from sleep. That being said, refresh would be just as useless.

Also, /sch gets sleep and pseudo sleepga. Light arts takes enhancing skill from 315-341 btw, a 26 point increase, not 21 as someone stated. May not seem like much, but that is an extra 5 points to a bar spell and two extra attribute points to boost spells. My build gives me +15 stat and 150 bar currently /sch.

The one time I can say I wish I did /rdm was Carabosse spam for friends Masamune. The amount of dispel on her would have been much nicer without all the art switching. But not like it was much of an issue anyway.

Yes, that about sums it up. Using Orison Bliaud +1/2 with Solace active is optimal, but *only* if one can reach 49-50% Cure Potency equipment without any Cure Potency from the Body slot. If not, you'd have to use Medicine Ring "in the yellow", or sacrifice the benefit of Orison Pantaloons +1/2 to use Shantotto pants.

For *most* WHMs, it's going to be more practical to continue using Noble's Tunic for cures. If S-E updates the game in the future to include Cure Potency equipment for Feet, Waist, or Sub, (or a non-latent Ring) it will make
curing in Orison Bliaud +1/2 more realistic.

That said, the Auto-Refresh +2 effect, and the Magic Defense Bonus added to Barspells effect from the Orison Bliaud +2 make it still a useful and desirable item, even if it isn't your "full-time" WHM body piece.

nah this is the best set i think we covered it earlier or in some other thread. I think most would agree it's literally the "best" WHM set out there for curing. If not, then it's the "best" in my opinion.





feel free to swap ammo/grip/belt with equal pieces in MND w/e

How about you put in a medicine ring in one of the fingers,take out back, earring, neck and replace with mind... Back almost replaces the rings mind itself.

In total you should get 3 mnd for earring, 6 for neck, and 6 for back and that's > the 7 from ring yes you have to latent but that's simple with all the gear options. (provided windower or fast macroing)
Medicine ring opens up alot of options to fill in more mnd, vit, or healing+ whatever.

Good call.
Basically, you sacrificed 1% Cure Potency for an additional +17 MND and +5 Healing Magic Skill.
Normally, given how potent even 1% Cure Potency is, I wouldn't recommend going below 50% voluntarily. However, it turns out the +17 MND and +5 Healing Skill is slightly better. It's nit-picky (difference of about 6 HP on a Cure V), but you're right.

It seems that every 10 MND is roughly equivalent to 1% Cure Potency.

No.


If you use a MND back (Sunbeam Cape), MND Earring (Celestial Earring), and MND neck (Ajari Necklace), that's +15 MND. Now subtract the 6 or 7 MND you lost by unequipping a MND ring, and you end up netting 8 or 9 MND.

8 or 9 MND isn't even equivalent to 1% Cure Potency. Not worth it when you'd have to stay "in the yellow" to use Medicine Ring. Not to mention you'd lose 9 points of Enmity reduction.

now all i got to do is get a roundel lol, the rest of the ***is easy :P

meh I would pick the 49%+ 60 MND over 51%+ 69 MND and not worry about a latent, to me the medicine ring is just a tool to fill in the gap of cure potency if you are unable to hit ~50% without it. Once I was able to hit 50% without the med ring I did not look back

If only SE would lower Aurorastorm from SCH 55 to SCH 49...

I confess, this was all my fault to begin with. I diagnose myself with male pattern lazyness. I'm sorry.

What you have to understand is /rdm at whm90 is already fourty kinds of sugar coated awesomeness in comparison to whm75 /anything. especially for us elves. We're already in post coital levels of bliss over refresh and convert and the near endless supply of mp from our atmas. I soloed silverhook on a whim (pun intended)and his whole damned crew for god's sake as WHITEMAGE. Laugh all you want, but to me it was *** epic.

and Yea though I walk through the shadows of the valley of death, I no longer shite my pants when I see a bunny.

So yes, it was me and I'm still not convinced I need to get off my keister and level scholar, but I probably will now just to try and understand all of your points and see this even greater joy for myself.

Just give me some time I'm still realing from the too much joy overload, ya goddammed whippersnappers.

/shakes his cane