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Lack of responsibility
 Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 15:51:28
Phoenix.Darki said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Oh, agreed. I'm just ruminating on the nature of the beast. We're okay with saying murder is wrong, unless you kill someone else. Unless you're a soldier, then it's different. But even if you're a soldier, this one kind of killing is okay, but this other is not. And if you do that other kind, then we'll kill you as punishment. Our sense of morality is a lot more complex and nuanced than most people give credit to. If only the soldiers were saved for wars that actually defended us. Yeah look what happened last time we waited will we were actually attacked first... Shoot first ask questions later?!?
wolverine reference? :P no, not at all?
why would it be a wolverine reference?
 Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-09-14 15:52:21
"still shooting first and asking questions later?" -wolverine
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 15:53:15
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Oh, agreed. I'm just ruminating on the nature of the beast. We're okay with saying murder is wrong, unless you kill someone else. Unless you're a soldier, then it's different. But even if you're a soldier, this one kind of killing is okay, but this other is not. And if you do that other kind, then we'll kill you as punishment. Our sense of morality is a lot more complex and nuanced than most people give credit to. If only the soldiers were saved for wars that actually defended us. Yeah look what happened last time we waited will we were actually attacked first... Shoot first ask questions later?!? Better to shoot first than to be shot first
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 15:53:17
Phoenix.Darki said: "still shooting first and asking questions later?" -wolverine
how does that have to be wolverine?
I don't restrict my phraseology to X-men movies :/
Ramuh.Dasva said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Oh, agreed. I'm just ruminating on the nature of the beast. We're okay with saying murder is wrong, unless you kill someone else. Unless you're a soldier, then it's different. But even if you're a soldier, this one kind of killing is okay, but this other is not. And if you do that other kind, then we'll kill you as punishment. Our sense of morality is a lot more complex and nuanced than most people give credit to. If only the soldiers were saved for wars that actually defended us. Yeah look what happened last time we waited will we were actually attacked first... Shoot first ask questions later?!? Better to shoot first than to be shot first
lol, I agree with what you say for that, but not everyone has to be shooting :/
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-09-14 15:54:00
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Phoenix.Darki said: "still shooting first and asking questions later?" -wolverine
how does that have to be wolverine?
I don't restrict my phraseology to X-men movies :/ nevermind..
just sounded like you quoted him
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 15:54:15
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Oh, agreed. I'm just ruminating on the nature of the beast. We're okay with saying murder is wrong, unless you kill someone else. Unless you're a soldier, then it's different. But even if you're a soldier, this one kind of killing is okay, but this other is not. And if you do that other kind, then we'll kill you as punishment. Our sense of morality is a lot more complex and nuanced than most people give credit to. If only the soldiers were saved for wars that actually defended us. Yeah look what happened last time we waited will we were actually attacked first... Pretty ignorant. Would you care to say if that was a comment alluding to 9/11 so I can blast you for us being in the wrong country for 7 years? Not ignorant at all.
Probably cause I wasn't referring to 9/11. That was an act of terrorism and wasn't even done by a government so it's not exactly the same thing.
Kinda sad you went there first though
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 15:57:51
Shoot first ask questions later pretty much means that you don't feel the need to think before you act, an example: Quote: If the foreman saw that one of the workers was working slowly, he didn't stop to find out if the worker was sick or unhappy; he just fired him. He believed in shooting first and asking questions later.
It's really dependent on how you do things.
When you are trained to do that...you do that.
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-09-14 15:58:45
still ignorant.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 15:59:41
Phoenix.Darki said: still ignorant. Ignorance isn't really the point.
We want our boys to be tools before humans when at war.
Aaaand I don't really blame em. You can't work as a core unit questioning higher command at every turn.
At least in regards to instilling that concept.
And it's in no way a completely solid concept because lets face it, we can't completely be machines.
Just gotta try to make the best of any situation.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 15:59:45
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Oh, agreed. I'm just ruminating on the nature of the beast. We're okay with saying murder is wrong, unless you kill someone else. Unless you're a soldier, then it's different. But even if you're a soldier, this one kind of killing is okay, but this other is not. And if you do that other kind, then we'll kill you as punishment. Our sense of morality is a lot more complex and nuanced than most people give credit to. If only the soldiers were saved for wars that actually defended us. Yeah look what happened last time we waited will we were actually attacked first... Pretty ignorant. Would you care to say if that was a comment alluding to 9/11 so I can blast you for us being in the wrong country for 7 years? Not ignorant at all. Probably cause I wasn't referring to 9/11. That was an act of terrorism and wasn't even done by a government so it's not exactly the same thing. Kinda sad you went there first though Yes it is pretty much the definition of ignorant to "shoot first and ask questions later".
Why is it sad I went there? It is the most recent attack. What else would one assume first? Pearl Harbor? Shooting first and asking questions later is a far cry from taking actions before people are dead. If someone points a gun at your head are you going to wait till he shoots you or someone else to do something? inb4 that is completely different.
And again that wasn't an act of war... and yeah we aren't really going after exactly the right people but it's kinda hard which is why we didn't put much effort into it before.
By Flionheart 2010-09-14 16:00:21
Phoenix.Darki said: still ignorant.
Stellar reply there, Your clear points on the issue had me in utter awe.
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-09-14 16:02:19
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Phoenix.Darki said: still ignorant. Ignorance isn't really the point.
We want our boys to be tools before humans when at war.
Aaaand I don't really blame em. You can't work as a core unit questioning higher command at every turn.
At least in regards to instilling that concept.
ignorant
but only choice i guess.
ugh... the whole war subject is so complex, with it's morals/rules and all, it clashes so much.
Flionheart said: Phoenix.Darki said: still ignorant.
Stellar reply there, Your clear points on the issue had me in utter awe.
you always have to point something bad about everything?
By Flionheart 2010-09-14 16:03:03
Phoenix.Darki said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Phoenix.Darki said: still ignorant. Ignorance isn't really the point.
We want our boys to be tools before humans when at war.
Aaaand I don't really blame em. You can't work as a core unit questioning higher command at every turn.
At least in regards to instilling that concept.
ignorant
but only choice i guess.
ugh... the whole war subject is so complex, with it's morals/rules and all, it clashes so much.
Flionheart said: Phoenix.Darki said: still ignorant.
Stellar reply there, Your clear points on the issue had me in utter awe.
you always have to point something bad about everything?
Yes, it's a gift from god.
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-09-14 16:03:08
vin from now on im going to give you like 10 minutes before i reply to any of your posts, srsly.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 16:05:01
Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Oh, agreed. I'm just ruminating on the nature of the beast. We're okay with saying murder is wrong, unless you kill someone else. Unless you're a soldier, then it's different. But even if you're a soldier, this one kind of killing is okay, but this other is not. And if you do that other kind, then we'll kill you as punishment. Our sense of morality is a lot more complex and nuanced than most people give credit to. If only the soldiers were saved for wars that actually defended us. Yeah look what happened last time we waited will we were actually attacked first... Pretty ignorant. Would you care to say if that was a comment alluding to 9/11 so I can blast you for us being in the wrong country for 7 years? Not ignorant at all. Probably cause I wasn't referring to 9/11. That was an act of terrorism and wasn't even done by a government so it's not exactly the same thing. Kinda sad you went there first though Yes it is pretty much the definition of ignorant to "shoot first and ask questions later".
Why is it sad I went there? It is the most recent attack. What else would one assume first? Pearl Harbor? Shooting first and asking questions later is a far cry from taking actions before people are dead. If someone points a gun at your head are you going to wait till he shoots you or someone else to do something? inb4 that is completely different.
And again that wasn't an act of war... and yeah we aren't really going after exactly the right people but it's kinda hard which is why we didn't put much effort into it before. I think the only bad part of that is that when we think someone is pointing a gun at us and it ends up being a water pistol.
No trying to discredit what's been done in the past, just the fact that it's not always the case where you have to shoot first and ask questions later.
Phoenix.Darki said: vin from now on im going to give you like 10 minutes before i reply to any of your posts, srsly. Yeah I like to clarify things with a discussion like this.
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-09-14 16:07:03
srsly.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 16:09:23
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Oh, agreed. I'm just ruminating on the nature of the beast. We're okay with saying murder is wrong, unless you kill someone else. Unless you're a soldier, then it's different. But even if you're a soldier, this one kind of killing is okay, but this other is not. And if you do that other kind, then we'll kill you as punishment. Our sense of morality is a lot more complex and nuanced than most people give credit to. If only the soldiers were saved for wars that actually defended us. Yeah look what happened last time we waited will we were actually attacked first... Pretty ignorant. Would you care to say if that was a comment alluding to 9/11 so I can blast you for us being in the wrong country for 7 years? Not ignorant at all. Probably cause I wasn't referring to 9/11. That was an act of terrorism and wasn't even done by a government so it's not exactly the same thing. Kinda sad you went there first though Yes it is pretty much the definition of ignorant to "shoot first and ask questions later". Why is it sad I went there? It is the most recent attack. What else would one assume first? Pearl Harbor? Shooting first and asking questions later is a far cry from taking actions before people are dead. If someone points a gun at your head are you going to wait till he shoots you or someone else to do something? inb4 that is completely different. And again that wasn't an act of war... and yeah we aren't really going after exactly the right people but it's kinda hard which is why we didn't put much effort into it before. I think the only bad part of that is that when we think someone is pointing a gun at us and it ends up being a water pistol.
No trying to discredit what's been done in the past, just the fact that it's not always the case where you have to shoot first and ask questions later. Meh I kinda laugh at those... seriously. Except the ones that were actual cop assisted suicides then they are just cowards who couldn't even do it themselves.
Anyways I never said take unprovoked action. Just saying it's reckless to wait till your own people are proven to have been killed before you take any action.
Hey guys I know you said you were going to kill us amassed weapons, have tried to or actually killed some of us but since we can't prove/find specific people that did it were not going to try until something big enough happens that we can. Oh and sorry for everyone who died in the process
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-09-14 16:10:29
srsly...
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 16:11:36
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Shooting first and asking questions later is a far cry from taking actions before people are dead. If someone points a gun at your head are you going to wait till he shoots you or someone else to do something? inb4 that is completely different. Bad analogy because yes, it is very different. We are talking about wars and soldiers here, and not someone pointing a gun at you which would let you know you are in immediate danger.
Throwing out shoot first ask questions later is a broad statement I guess if anyone was to have a problem with it you just settle into something like that so there be no argument. Sure it is. Cause once again I never said shoot first ask questions later. You did. I just said take action before they idk kill hundreds of people. BIG difference.
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Ramuh.Dasva said: And again that wasn't an act of war... and yeah we aren't really going after exactly the right people but it's kinda hard which is why we didn't put much effort into it before. Pearl Harbor was not an act of war?
O.o Awww, it is hard to find the right people who want to harm us, boo-boo-boo-boo lets kill everyone. No I meant the 9/11 duh pearl harbor was. But I think you are purposefully taking things out of context just to bolster your point
 Fairy.Spence
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23779
By Fairy.Spence 2010-09-14 16:12:47
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Meh I kinda laugh at those... seriously. Except the ones that were actual cop assisted suicides then they are just cowards who couldn't even do it themselves.
It's always cowardly, no exceptions.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 16:15:35
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Meh I kinda laugh at those... seriously. Except the ones that were actual cop assisted suicides then they are just cowards who couldn't even do it themselves.
Anyways I never said take unprovoked action. Just saying it's reckless to wait till your own people are proven to have been killed before you take any action.
Hey guys I know you said you were going to kill us amassed weapons, have tried to or actually killed some of us but since we can't prove/find specific people that did it were not going to try until something big enough happens that we can. Oh and sorry for everyone who died in the process
Why not North Korea first then? lol
I guess maybe because Iraq is in the middle east or something?
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 16:18:25
Meh I'd rather be in North Korea myself... but as you might have guess I don't decide such things
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 16:19:46
Ramuh.Dasva said: Meh I'd rather be in North Korea myself... but as you might have guess I don't decide such things Depends which place has more valuable natural resources :P
Caitsith.Zefiris
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2401
By Caitsith.Zefiris 2010-09-14 16:20:24
What about China? D:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/13/AR2010091306282.html?sid=ST2010091306394
Tl;DR: This woman plead guilty to charges against her where
she paid a man to kill her husband, stepson, and let one of the murders have sex with her 16 year old daughter. She is to be executed on the 23rd, the first woman to be executed in VA in 100 years.
She is now begging for her life saying she acted out of character and that she thought she was innocent since it wasn't her pulling the trigger.
Can anyone take this person seriously? It says she's border line mentally retarded but even my mentally retarded cousin knows right from wrong. It's really annoying to see horrible people like this try to justify their actions instead of taking responsibility for what they've done.
Before any of you decide to use Mentally retarded as a defense know that being mentally retarded does not exclude you from Mens Rea. She KNEW exactly what was happening, and she knew it was wrong.
Thoughts?
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