Sortie Release - Info

Mostly filtered but as the GEO in our enraged Aminon group, that number is really low for Black Halo. I'm using Judgment (R15 Idris) so the RDM can use Black Halo. Highest was 38872, lowest was 10992, average of 24,000 over the course of 38 Judgment. We use a DRK instead of DNC.

great info! thank you, exactly type of info looking for, cheers, mind sharing your Judgment set?

With Stewpot and this set, no issues hitting Aminon with the usual BRD buffs and Distract 3. I think I tried with Nyame Gauntlets but noticed too many wiffs but could have been other factors too.

I think your DNC is doing something wrong. Not using Climactic at all? Not using Centovente offhand and WSing at low TP? No idea, but Climactic Ruthless should be doing 80k+ if COR is doing 38k Savage. Also Galka or other race doesn't matter at all (unless that was a joke). Galka is actually good for Ruthless (not the worst DEX, second highest STR and highest VIT), but Ruthless WSC is very low anyway, so it doesn't matter at all.

he started with Centovente then said offhand twashtar was better

and yes the galka thing was a joke

My high on BRD is ~50k or so, depends if SV/Bolster are up. Are you using SV, Bolster, then WC/CC to add more SV/Bolster? Do you have Aria? Which stage Aria? Which songs? Geo-fury with Blaze/Ecliptic when it's not bolstered? Make sure to put this in the back, out of range of Aminon's auto-attacks if possible so it lives as long as possible.

We never had the PLD WS (to save TP on Aminon), GEO looks quite low, COR is maybe about right, RDM seems a bit low. We also used DRK, high was 99k, average was maybe 60-70k?

We aren't the most elite group out there, our kills were about 30 minutes I'd say, maybe 20 at the absolute shortest. We *** around a fair bit and don't take ourselves too seriously.

bard does not have aria. we were running geo-frailty/indi-fury entrust precision

I wasnt thinking I was going to be adding muych but the videos I watched showed PLD doing like 10k CDC, so when I was hitting 15-17k KoR I figured that every bit helps and it seemed like decent enough chunks

Geomancy debuffs are reduced in there and AFAIK this applies to Aminon as well, so I'd switch to Geo-fury Indi-frailty, so you can have the bigger boost on the attack.

Certainly wouldn't discourage you from using PLD, just mentioning it as a difference between our strats; I think most groups have PLD using WS.

I have some data I've been compiling for some time regarding Sortie Earrings. In short, the augment rate is terribly weighted to one side(and not the preferred one).
Considering the time it takes to obtain HQ earrings, especially +2's, it's sad to see the augment rate favor the low side of the spectrum. From the data I've gathered it looks like augment rate of HQ1's have an average of 12 macc/acc rounded to the nearest whole number, and 17 Macc/Acc rounded to the nearest whole number for HQ2's. Below is my data copied from my active sheet for those that would like to verify.

*Note: due to rarity of HQ2's the pool is smaller. I run with 2 statics, between them and my other friends this is what I have gathered. I only take submissions of data points at time of obtainment to eliminate duping of numbers.*

I tried to post the data but the formating is terrible, here is the active link for the sheet.
Sortie Earring Info...

Augment Rate(Acc/Macc):
NQ Average~~~~~~HQ1 Average~~~~~~HQ2 Average
6.852941176~~~~~11.98802395~~~~~~16.96153846

Augment structure:
HQ2 Attribute/Acc breakdown
Attributes ~~~~ Acc/Macc
7 ~~~~~~~~~ 16
9 ~~~~~~~~~ 17
11 ~~~~~~~~ 18
13 ~~~~~~~~ 19
15 ~~~~~~~~ 20
Exceptions: SMN confirmed, possibly BST and PUP
Store TP:7 pet:acc/macc:17 Pet DT:-6%

NQ box to HQ1 earring rate:
7 of 212
3.398% HQ rate

Shout out to all the contributors of the data points. It would have taken much longer without your assistance.

Will update when more HQ2 data is availalble.

This has no sense at all. Unless he was WSing at 3000TP. Twashtar offhand is a +50dex stat stick and Ruthless is only 20-25% Dex wsc. Most or all of the tp should come from regain/flourish, so you don't waste climactic charges.

Does anybody knows if Aminon hard mode resists armor break, perchance? I don't remember seeing posts about it.

Aminon enraged, we are chugging along

BRD and COR get quite a few no-effect on absorb-tp, would like to shore that up if possible.

other than the obvious with MLing and macc gear, woudl PLD/SCH casting voidstorm on them and going with obi be better than macc waist?

Any thoughts?

edit: also PLD/SCH can do Manifestation > Klimaform, I hadnt thought of that

hachirin-no-obi doesn't get any macc increase with appropriate weather

ty, i think that answers my question on that, voidstorm+klima would still be worth casting though correct?

While we do know that obi/weather procs add macc(there was a 2015 JP dev post), I don't believe the value has ever been quantified. So... there's really no telling, unless someone wants to test it. macc testing is hell.

That aside, if you do decide to go with using weather, the PLD/SCH can also do dark arts manifestation Kilamform to the party for an extra +15 macc. Pretty annoying for the PLD though. And technically, you can get the benefits of Klimaform even if you aren't using an Obi.

Also, this might be stating the obvious but, do they have Dark magic skill merits from another job? Another 16 skill doesn't hurt. You can only merit it if you have a 75+ job with native dark magic skill, but once merited you get the skill gains on any job.

EDIT: well, I can see I spent too much time sitting on this post. But I suppose I better include a reference since we've got conflicting statements about weather procs and macc now.
JP Dev post on weather proc macc

i don't know the fight, have only done regular aminon. but it would be 15 macc if the pld can keep it up.

beaten, wasn't aware of that information either about weather and macc



that page conflicts with

this page

if anyone knows how to edit the wiki

Updated the Hachirin page.

Lodeguy also showed in March 2017 that what SE claimed about magic accuracy skill (e.g., accuracy skill +269 "=" magic accuracy +135) appeared to be incorrect (see last image table with the +228 skill versus +228 macc comparison where he showed there wasn't any difference): https://luteff11.livedoor.blog/archives/50782425.html (FFXIAH discussion of those results: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/51250/magic-accuracy-vs-magic-accuracy-skill/)

There isn't any reason to disbelieve a dev post in the absence of information though. To this day there doesn't seem to be any disclosed data validating of the weather effect (maybe Lodeguy did do it but no one noticed).

The effect of day on paralyze has been mentioned previously (https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/67464-Formal-Magic-Accuracy-Testing?p=2410438&viewfull=1#post2410438) but those results probably didn't include obi use (so that could obscure what could be a small effect like +/- 10) and again it's extrapolating from day to weather without any justification. Haven't seen anything about nukes + weather

Ideally, the thing to do would be to quantify the weather/day proc macc bonus. This would both verify the devpost, and give us the actual value. Allowing us to tell which option is better between straight macc+ gear, and forcing the proc.

That said... I'm not volunteering to test that. lol. <,<;

It probably is something like affinity on Magian staves where a given level is +X% dmg or +X magic accuracy (X being the same integer) depending on the attribute

So by analogy, double weather might provide +25 magic accuracy since the corresponding damage increase is 25%

Klimaform was confirmed to be +15 with weather effect controlled for by actually equipping obi the whole time (separate from the dev post), so could do the same thing just for obi + weather versus no weather

so are we now agreeing that if brd and cor have dark weather/klima up they should use obi for absorb-tp? :)

Only if it's 25 Macc. BRD has Obstinate Sash and COR has Kwahu Kachina Belt +1 for 15/20 macc, so if the weather bonus is 15 or less, obi is not worth using.

At this point the bonus to macc from weather is unknown so...I wouldn't swap it if I were you.

Also worth considering that if you're not wearing the obi, the bonus can still proc in addition to the macc you get from your actual macc belt.

https://luteff11.livedoor.blog/archives/42385969.html

Seems that in 2014 lute / lodeguy looked at the effect of Rainstorm II (with Suirin Obi equipped) on magic accuracy (full hit rate) versus without Rainstorm II and also with Rainstorm II + obi + Klimaform. The results are consistent with Klimaform having a +15 magic accuracy effect but double weather itself (from Rainstorm II) seems to be lacking as far as an obviously large magic accuracy bonus.

It is notable that his baseline data was around 50% full hit rate so if the actual rate were around 45%, that might "attenuate" a small magic accuracy bonus. If it were really sizable like +25 magic accuracy, that would pump up the hit rate though and the combined double weather + Klimaform effect would be approaching 90% full hit rate if so.

He also did double thunder + Lightningday it appears with Rairin Obi. Again he was around the 50% threshold for the baseline data (no weather/day and no Klimaform), but even so, supposing the combined weather + day effect is -35 magic accuracy, you might see a dramatic drop in full hit rate. However, the reduction appears to be small, if there is one.

Going back to the Paralyze data where the use of obi was unknown, a small effect of day (if one exists) would be obscured by the lack of procs, and the same would apply to weather. But here it seems he used an obi the whole time where applicable, so if there is a magic accuracy bonus or penalty associated with weather and day, the effect is not very large

Edit: also Klimaform + forced weather (I think just Thunderstorm I) versus no weather was done before elsewhere in 2013 and is additional evidence against a large weather effect: https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108196-Random-Facts-Thread-Magic?p=5913165&viewfull=1#post5913165

SV Dark Threnody?

Define "quite a lot". How many no-effect out of how many casts?
Make sure it didn't happen just twice for each char.

Other than that I'm not sure about COR but BRD get a lot of very good Macc options so that sounds strange to me (btw ML does close to nothing for Absorb-TP. BRD and COR get no Dark magic skill from ML so you would get only INT which I'm not even sure if it counts as macc for Absorb-TP)

A few things I can think of based on my hard mode Aminon:

1) Did those casts happen in the X seconds between a Frazzle3 wearing off and the next one being applied? This window of time should be very small but situationally it could become several seconds if for instance Frazzle wears off when the RDM is midcasting etc

2) It could be a packet-loss while switching gear, meaning on a few casts went off with wrong gear. Nothing you can do about this, really.

3) It could be a bad lua. A friend had a similar issue where he was spamming a macro and he unawaringly was queueing multiple gear swaps packets and ending up midcasting in precast gear because of the macrospam. Make sure your friends aren't doing it and/or have a Lua that prevent it.


Can't think of anything else atm

With SV they always land. When sv wears they are more like 50/50

My SV threnody with nitro usually lasts until it’s dead but today I accidentally missed nitro timer and only got a Nq threnody on and had no resists. It sounds like the sets might be low on macc?

SV has no influence on Threnody Duration (other than stopping you from benefitting from the 20secs additional duration you would get from Marcato), but maybe you didn't mean it that way.

Either way the maximum theoretical duration of Dark Threnody II is 10' 25", it's tecnically 25.6 seconds and I'm not sure how the game rounds that up.

That's using Marsyas as instrument (which means losing -20 Dark Meva to gain 10% more duration), BiS duration/threnody gear, Offhanding a duration dagger and having up Clarion Call, Troubadour and Marcato of course.
If we want to remove Marcato (no teffect if SV is up) and use a serious instrument like Ghorn or Stage5 Laughnashade, the max Threnody duration would be 9' 47".
If we remove Clarion Call (40" bonus duration, subject to Troub multiplication) then this duration becomes 8' and 27".
If we assume that BRD will be /DNC or /DRK then we need to remove the duration bonus from OH and the final number becomes around 8' and 18"

Now killing Hard Mode Aminon in under 10 mins looks like quite a feat to me, so if you can kill in under 10 mins well, congratulations to you then!



@Toralin
Are you one hundred % sure it's 50/50 for your BRD and COR? That seems like an extremely high ratio of "no effect", are you really really sure it's that high?
For instance with my group it's rare we get more than a couple of "no effect" per fight (~30 mins fight), excluding the three situations I mentioned above of course.
If the no effect ratio of your BRD and COR is really that high, then there's some problems in their Absorb-TP midcast set. Either they lack a lot of macc (but 50% no effect rate seems too high, given the quality level of players you usually run with) or they have some issues in their lua, midcasting in the wrong set.
Did you have them test their sets somewhere outside to make sure they are truly midcasting in the correct set?

You get Dark Magic skill for every level your subjob levels up, so that's just bad info. Master Levels are going to give INT and probably m.acc per level regardless so MLs matter plenty.

ML 30 nets you 194 Dark magic skill vs 166 Dark magic skill with no MLs

Either I misunderstood what you meant, or you're lacking some info about Master Level.
Quoting BG-wiki

"Only skills that are learned naturally for job that gained a level will be increased. For instance, leveling up Samurai will not increase Healing Magic Skill."


Which means that you don't get +1 for each ML for skills that your current job do not get naturally.
COR and BRD have zero Dark Magic Skill, which implies ML50 will give them exactly +0 Dark Magic Skill.

As for the +1 Macc for each ML that's entirely possible but has never officially stated by SE. If it's a hidden bonus, well, nobody tested it so far. Could be?

As for the INT converting into Macc (like it does for Elemental Magic and a lot of Enfeebles) I'm not sure if that's the case for Dark Magic and more specifically for Absorb-TP.
My initial post was just to make sure Toralin didn't take for granted that ML would've made a huge difference in the results of Absorb-TP. Maybe, thanks to the INT part, but not necessarily and definitely not because of Skill. Not on BRD and COR main, at least.