Geomancer And Mastery Level

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Geomancer and Mastery Level
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By IBHalliwell 2022-08-04 22:13:25  
Hi,

I'm returning from an 18 month vacation and boy things are different. I noticed I'm no longer in the BLUE for Geomancy and Hallbell. Does being in the blue at 99 matter anymore? (I have 900+ with gear, etc).

Thanks for helping me get back up and understanding.

IBHalliwell on Ragnarok formerly of Caitsith
 Quetzalcoatl.Jakey
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By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2022-08-04 22:34:04  
Master levels raise the amount of skill you can get but you still only need 900+ so just means you need even less gear than before.

of note you lose access to your new skill when you lvl sync so if you plan to do a lot more master leveling you may want to stick to your old gear.
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By Chimerawizard 2022-08-04 22:37:17  
cap skill @m25 + merits =900 skill.

by that point you could completely ignore skill from gear.
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By gargurty 2022-08-05 08:27:20  
geo needs to get more love. Now its seen as a mule job needing 0 skill to play ; ;
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2022-08-05 08:34:55  
"now"
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2022-08-05 08:48:03  
Yea master levels aren't really a big deal at all for geo sadly I'd imagine the new prime weapon is gonna be basically same kinda deal. Also it's been mule job for a bit now mostly because of this.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-08-05 09:17:36  
Nothing about GEO has changed since Idris. You can completely skip Dynamis NQ/+1/+2 neck and be completely fine, nobody will even notice (i have yet to buy GEO neck at all for any events, including Bumba). Su5 Weapon is basically a toy that is not going to get used in anything meaningful, so long as Ongo 15/20 is the standard for nuke strategies; GEO simply can't compare to BLM's DPS. Even getting Master Levels on GEO seems like an honest waste of time compared to other jobs. Yeah you get higher subs, more HP, DEF etc, but nothing fundamentally changes about the job. Feel cool getting ML40 in CN parties while cleaving with Earth Crusher. You're not any more impressive after the whole thing. I really wouldn't stress over GEO MLs, unless you just want to grind out levels on it.
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By Thunderjet 2022-08-05 09:20:54  
hmm
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By Draylo 2022-08-05 09:23:26  
GEO definitely been a mule job for years.. really casts two to three spells and not much else in majority of content. Back then you could stun with it, nuke reliably before most nerfs but not much now. Altho to be fair what isnt a mule job anymore with all the addons and crap
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2022-08-05 09:29:40  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Nothing about GEO has changed since Idris. You can completely skip Dynamis NQ/+1/+2 neck and be completely fine, nobody will even notice (i have yet to buy GEO neck at all for any events, including Bumba). Su5 Weapon is basically a toy that is not going to get used in anything meaningful, so long as Ongo 15/20 is the standard for nuke strategies; GEO simply can't compare to BLM's DPS. Even getting Master Levels on GEO seems like an honest waste of time compared to other jobs. Yeah you get higher subs, more HP, DEF etc, but nothing fundamentally changes about the job. Feel cool getting ML40 in CN parties while cleaving with Earth Crusher. You're not any more impressive after the whole thing. I really wouldn't stress over GEO MLs, unless you just want to grind out levels on it.
This right here is everything I had on my mind. Like cool you still the same as you were without ml sadly. It just a waste of time if not a completion person.
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 Asura.Patriclis
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By Asura.Patriclis 2022-08-05 09:31:10  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
You can completely skip Dynamis NQ/+1/+2 neck and be completely fine, nobody will even notice

While this isn't wrong, I'm actually a fan of the neck. I probably wouldn't spend gil on the +1 or +2

But the NQ is cheap and the 6% chance to absorb DT is nice at times. It does help keep a blazed/ecliptic luopan out a bit longer in more harrowing circumstances (when it procs).

The extra luopan duration means less recasting on geo spells, which can save a bit of MP. again not a *huge* contribution but I find it particularly useful when I'm buffing, sleeping, pulling, and healing a CP party. MP can get kind of tight at times.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2022-08-05 09:33:28  
Asura.Patriclis said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
You can completely skip Dynamis NQ/+1/+2 neck and be completely fine, nobody will even notice

While this isn't wrong, I'm actually a fan of the neck. I probably wouldn't spend gil on the +1 or +2

But the NQ is cheap and the 6% chance to absorb DT is nice at times. It does help keep a blazed/ecliptic luopan out a bit longer in more harrowing circumstances (when it procs).

The extra luopan duration means less recasting on geo spells, which can save a bit of MP. again not a *huge* contribution but I find it particularly useful when I'm buffing, sleeping, pulling, and healing a CP party. MP can get kind of tight at times.
Did something change about duration that I don't know about? It's 10 mins no matter what isn't it?
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By Asura.Patriclis 2022-08-05 09:37:39  
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Did something change about duration that I don't know about? It's 10 mins no matter what isn't it?

The JSE Neck augment has Luopan duration +15/20/25%
I presume this exceeds the 10min cap... though I've never actually timed it out myself I can't imagine what else it would be since that's the only 'time' factor for luopans.
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By Asura.Seizan 2022-08-05 09:43:13  
gargurty said: »
geo needs to get more love. Now its seen as a mule job needing 0 skill to play ; ;

That is ture, and u are my mule!

~ Mwahahahhahahaha
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By Asura.Alexeina 2022-08-05 09:43:40  
Asura.Patriclis said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Did something change about duration that I don't know about? It's 10 mins no matter what isn't it?

The JSE Neck augment has Luopan duration +15/20/25%
I presume this exceeds the 10min cap... though I've never actually timed it out myself I can't imagine what else it would be since that's the only 'time' factor for luopans.


Actual implementation of the neck duration bonus is reducing the luopan's health degeneration (slip). Also you need to have the neck on during casting to get this effect. You can take off the neck afterwards and still have the reduced slip. The luopan's duration cap remains at 10 minutes.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2022-08-05 09:46:02  
Asura.Alexeina said: »
Actual implementation of the neck duration bonus is reducing the luopan's health degeneration (slip). Also you need to have the neck on during casting to get this effect. You can take off the neck afterwards and still have the reduced slip. The luopan's duration cap remains at 10 minutes.
Thanks wanted to make sure this was still the case and it didn't get changed.
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By Asura.Patriclis 2022-08-05 09:49:28  
Asura.Alexeina said: »
Actual implementation of the neck duration bonus is reducing the luopan's health degeneration (slip). Also you need to have the neck on during casting to get this effect. You can take off the neck afterwards and still have the reduced slip. The luopan's duration cap remains at 10 minutes.

Thanks for clarification!
Guess I really should have looked more into it before assuming and running my mouth lmfao.

Still useful though, especially since it doesn't need to be idled in to get the benefit.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-08-05 09:59:28  
It's still a useful neck, but that's not actually what I was inferring. I can look at other jobs and their Su5/Dynamis necks, particularly the support ones: COR, RDM, BRD - they are all incredibly useful for the job, and I would feel so much worse skipping those dybamis necks vs the Geomancer one. It's definitely a bonus, but because GEO is often viewed as a "Mule" job, it's mostly just cast a luopan, sit in pet -dt/nyame, or dematerialize (which, if you're doing like a Bumba zerg, you have close to full time dematerialize duration), so the neck is just a bonus. Obviously, if you're doing a lot of actions, any benefit you can get to keeping your luopan alive is a plus, but I still don't think it fundamentally improves the job past just a "mule". In fact, dynamis neck makes it MORE of a mule job, lol.
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By Asura.Sechs 2022-08-05 12:20:28  
GEO is undoubtely in a strange position now.
It's because we have content with high mobility (segments) were GEO is useless without an ability to carry around the Luopan.
Furthermore its incredibly powerful buffs get nerfed left and right without no clear pattern.
Sometimes there's no nerf, sometimes it's 25%, sometimes 50%, sometimes 75%.

I'm all for acknowledging the previous system was way too powerful and they never meant those buffs/debuffs to be so strong. It's actually good.
But they should find a linear, predictable method to make so you know which content has a strong nerf against debuff bubbles and which doesn't.
I say nerf the base effect and make no use of these hidden nerfs, if you ask me, they just make things more complicated.



Furthermore, it's undeniable how GEO had a special synergy with magic based strategies, given how unique and powerful its magic-related buffs/debuffs are.
And we're living in an era where magic-based strategies are pretty much worthless, so... it all adds up.

If you allow me to make a strange parallel, I feel there's a similar situation with Utsusemi. Something that's hard to balance, it's either too strong or too weak.
And I feel Geomancy is left in the current status for the same reason.
Especially in Gaol content without SJ being a GEO feels very... irritating. I can see where the "mule job" meme comes from, there's some valid reason to fuel that, alas.
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 Asura.Crevox
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By Asura.Crevox 2022-08-05 13:52:00  
The nerfs to Geomancer debuffs on many fights leaves some classes like SMN in a bad position. We can't benefit from GEO buffs and most other buffs from jobs, so we greatly benefit from the debuffs GEO can provide. However, when they get bricked, we're stuck.

Also, while GEO is great for magic users as stated, they still can't do anything about a lot of battlefields/bosses being loaded with element/magic SDT. Only Rune Fencer can (partially) help to fix that.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2022-08-05 14:08:28  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
It's still a useful neck, but that's not actually what I was inferring. I can look at other jobs and their Su5/Dynamis necks, particularly the support ones: COR, RDM, BRD - they are all incredibly useful for the job, and I would feel so much worse skipping those dybamis necks vs the Geomancer one.

Ehhhhh IDK that I fully agree on the other support jobs. At least GEO neck does something for the core job function of buffs/debuffs, by helping you keep a Blaze/Bolster bubble alive longer. Seriously, when that thing procs even one time on an NM it's a substantial boost to luopon survivability. IMO, not to be discounted for serious content where you really want that strong bubble to stay up.

In comparison, BRD and COR necks add nothing for support purposes. BRD neck is melee TP piece only - great when you're meleeing, but that's not the main reason anybody is bringing a BRD and on difficult content it is common that the BRD never melees. COR neck is clearly an excellent piece for magical WS (and absolutely worth getting), but again doesn't do anything for buffs - the most significant reason people usually bring CORs.

Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
In fact, dynamis neck makes it MORE of a mule job, lol.

This is somewhat true, but to be clear... that's not just for the "drop a bubble and forget it" aspect. But it's the second best item in the game for Geomancy+ potency, and can be obtained WITHOUT the expensive and extremely time consuming process of making an Idris. Geomancy +7 mule can be created a lot more easily and give a substantial benefit.

So for that reason alone, the +1+2 neck existing as better options than anything except Idris and boosting the potency of your buffs is an extremely valuable addition to the game. I know we sometimes assume Idris or nothing, but there are lots of players and mules who want a non-Idris option to directly impact THE core function of the Geomancer job.

Asura.Sechs said: »
Especially in Gaol content without SJ being a GEO feels very... irritating.

Ain't that the truth. Not even being able to help toss a cure, a -na/erase, a haste, an enfeebling spell... that really does make the job feel especially neutered in Gaol.

Asura.Sechs said: »
Furthermore, it's undeniable how GEO had a special synergy with magic based strategies, given how unique and powerful its magic-related buffs/debuffs are.
And we're living in an era where magic-based strategies are pretty much worthless, so... it all adds up.

This is also a reason GEO could come back in an instant if magic strategies are more useful in the future.

And for stuff like taking advantage of hybrid WS, it's VERY nice to be able to have one buff job that can drop a Frailty bubble AND an Indi-Acumen, AND entrust a Fury or Focus on your SAM or NIN or whatever.

Or a common Dynamis situation: if your alliance has some magical WS users like RNGs or CORs using Trueflight/Leaden/Wildfire, you can have a single alliance GEO dropping a Malaise bubble. And you don't even need to take up a party slot for the "magic" buffer, so that COR who is doing physical buffs for their DD party can still take advantage of the GEO bubble without needing to dedicate a slot in their party.
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By Asura.Sechs 2022-08-05 14:55:56  
I still stand strong with the idea that they should streamline the nerfs to GEO debuffs.
I would accept pretty much anything, but having to wonder "is this fight/arena one of those where geomancy is nerfed?" is pure crap, let's face it.
To make it even worse, the amount of nerf isn't linear, it changes according to content. It's beyond preposterous if you ask me.


Granted this wouldn't change anything with GEO's current situation, it's just something that overly annoys me personally.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2022-08-05 15:18:04  
Asura.Sechs said: »
I still stand strong with the idea that they should streamline the nerfs to GEO debuffs.
I would accept pretty much anything, but having to wonder "is this fight/arena one of those where geomancy is nerfed?" is pure crap, let's face it.
To make it even worse, the amount of nerf isn't linear, it changes according to content. It's beyond preposterous if you ask me.


Granted this wouldn't change anything with GEO's current situation, it's just something that overly annoys me personally.
Ill go even further its not just geo itself the jobs in this game with gear creep has made this a even bigger issue. Before geo was strong but it was because dd's lacked alot of the stuff geo gave acc attack defense down etc. Now DD jobs are so high up with stats on gear which is gonna be even more so seen in emp gear that SE has been semi taking the easy way out and just making everything nerf geo debuffs by sometimes almost 90% or more. Honestly I don't see what SE can really do to fix this outside of bring dd's down a little or flat out come without with a nerf for the class once and forreal.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2022-08-05 15:21:48  
The main concern is the defense down.
When you stack Bolster Idris Frailty and Dia3/4 the defense of anything goes to ***.

One way to "fix" this was already suggested by someone else and that is to put a "cap" to the maximum amount of def down you can put on a target.
You can reach this cap with Bolster Idris Frailty alone, or you can reach it through a mixture of other factors, but you'll never go to the >90% defense reduction that you could normally reach.

This would be a starting point I guess.
Then they would probably have to reduce the gap between the base bubble potency and the Idris potency. Idris is way too powerful, make so the gap is smaller.
Then nerf some bubbles, but make so the numbers are consistant regardless of the target/content instead of leaving you to wonder wether or not the current content is nerfed against geomancy or not, gfdi.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2022-08-05 15:35:42  
Asura.Sechs said: »
The main concern is the defense down.
When you stack Bolster Idris Frailty and Dia3/4 the defense of anything goes to ***.

One way to "fix" this was already suggested by someone else and that is to put a "cap" to the maximum amount of def down you can put on a target.
You can reach this cap with Bolster Idris Frailty alone, or you can reach it through a mixture of other factors, but you'll never go to the >90% defense reduction that you could normally reach.

This would be a starting point I guess.
Then they would probably have to reduce the gap between the base bubble potency and the Idris potency. Idris is way too powerful, make so the gap is smaller.
Then nerf some bubbles, but make so the numbers are consistant regardless of the target/content instead of leaving you to wonder wether or not the current content is nerfed against geomancy or not, gfdi.
But then you just have what you go now which is take out or leave the geo add another dd and your good to go. Which is kinda what 6 man content has been doing bard is a dd/support now so why take the geo who isn't doing much of anything. Im like 1000% sure sortie gonna have same nerfs to it in 6 man content thats basically geo out. Also I agree with you on must of this but if geo takes nerfs its not gonna fix the class it'll just make it not worth playing sadly.
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2022-08-05 15:48:17  
already touched on tangentially in several posts, but right now my biggest frustration with GEO (a job I truly have grown to enjoy) is Sheol:Gaol. Content where when you need a GEO, there is truly nothing else that can be dropped in there, but without a subjob is just insulting to people who put real time into their GEOs. The job is really crippled to a point of being just a trust in many ways...but to pair that feeling of uselessness with such necessity isn't my cup of tea.
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By gargurty 2022-08-05 16:04:56  
yeh the no subjob is a job killer for geo for sure. Been trying to look into geo as a dd. It works but it isnt as fast another support job like cor or brd. Or as high damaging. Tho black halo is a great ws for geo's :)
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2022-08-05 16:31:35  
gargurty said: »
yeh the no subjob is a job killer for geo for sure. Been trying to look into geo as a dd. It works but it isnt as fast another support job like cor or brd. Or as high damaging. Tho black halo is a great ws for geo's :)

We've used it at times as well, extremely limited of course, but at least its something now and then. I've really become a fan of Judgment when I need to keep the Idris on for PetDT and can't swap to a Maxentius and Black Halo use.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2022-08-05 16:39:25  
There are a bunch of changes I'd like to see to geo.

Several of the debuffs should just be nerfed in general either by capping overall defense/attack/magic defense downs or specifically nerfing those spells

Idris is too much stronger than all other weapons especially given its giant time gate. I would make its overall boost be smaller and then increase the skill caps on spells so an idris geo with new capped skill comes out about the same but without idris if you cap a new higher skill cap you are much more competitive.

Make it much easier to move bubbles, there's too much roaming content that severely limits geo effectiveness. Also consider a movement speed bubble although it would probably have to work differently.

Some multi-buff bubbles, right now you buff/debuff 2-3 things usually far more than you need while leaving other buffs behind, some way to either have specific bubbles that do multiple things or even better a mechanic for combining bubbles could be interesting.

Rework elemental magic, more important for blm and sch but would be a big deal for geo as well, maybe buff their cardinal thing to be more meaningful. I feel like the way geo is supposed to help besides just dropping bubbles is with their elemental magic but given current state of elemental magic its just not an option.
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2022-08-05 17:03:09  
I'm confused by what sounds like contradictory thought in many complaints about Idris. I frequently see "its too powerful" paired with "it takes too long"....shouldn't something that takes longer to finish give better returns than something that can be acquired quickly?

Is the difference between a +2 neck GEO and an Idris GEO honestly that more than the differences between a 3 and 4 song BRD?

And lastly, the greatest benefit of Idris isn't the extra potency, its the ability to cap PetDT with just Idris+AF3 hands, leaving all those other slots for self-preservation and PetRegen. That alone justifies every GEO either having an Idris or actively working towards one. We really don't tolerate 3song BRDs at endgame events, why is Idris so different? Because you can't start an alt and 2 weeks later have one? If that's really the reason, shame. Its a damn MMO- things aren't meant to be instantaneous.
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