JP Mercs ~rant~

two key things in my statement being overlooked:

1. "The easiest" does not mean best or fastest.

2. "Learn the basics via the CP grind" does mean you are an expert. but it does help one practice the rhythm of that job and the core duties.

I'd never pretend to say that someone who practices an instrument only by themselves in a practice room, or only plays with small ensembles, understands the intricacies of playing in a full orchestra. But I want to know that musician sitting next to me in the orchestra has done the necessary work in those limited environments so they at least have an idea of the responsibilities they have once arriving in a large ensemble.

Well said. Nobody is trying to dictate someone doing this or not. Mainly because you can't make anyone do or not do something. But I've never met someone who bought their success in a game and were actually good at it. They liked to think they are but were not.

Then again, that follows is most any game. I played MTG for over 25 years and people who simply paid a bunch of money for expensive copies of other's decks had their lack of experience shine on the outside.

I farmed Ambuscade VD last month (because it’s fun) and CP farming with my main job (which is not) would’ve never prepared me for that. The positioning and multi-tanking of the adds, disengaging at the right time to bind the boss, figuring out which moves were and weren’t stunnable...

It’s true I already did stuff like that years ago in this game, and so it was fairly easy to learn and to do on the spot. I do understand that new players shouldn’t be carried through everything, but returning players? I say go get your JPs maxed ASAP and go play the real game. Merit/EXP/CP farming is brutally monotonous; it’s always been and will always be the worst (yet mostly irrelevant mechanics-wise) part of this game.

Plot Twist...

FFXI is a min/max game. If you aren't buying JPs while you sleep/work, then you aren't min/maxing and maybe YOUR theory is counter intuitive to your anti-buy thesis!?!

3M for 500JP. Do you know how many ways there are to make 3M in FFXI right now? Every single once of which can be done faster than what it takes to gain 500JP even in a perfect 6 person REMA party?

If min/max is the name of the game, you almost HAVE to agree that buying JP is the most efficient way to play ffxi. Thursday morning I shouted asking how long these RMT take to actually get the 500 JP. The answers I got were between 7~12 hours depending on bonuses, gear, rolls, rings, and if it was the first 500 or last 500. The math was simple. 3M for what would take between 7-12 hours (while I was at work and couldn't play anyways) for my first 500 JP on Paladin. In those same 7-12 hours during a time I could actually play, I was able to make 10 times that amount of money, selling a single Pulse Weapon, and it only took me 2 or 3 hours.

I think a strong argument could be made, that if you aren't paying for Job Points, you're the one who isn't playing efficiently. You're wasting your time and your gil.

Don't get me wrong... Every JP I ever got on Dancer, I grinded myself, years ago, because I enjoy playing Dnc, making SCs, and smashing things in their face. I promise, I didn't level Paladin, because I thought it would be a good job to smash things in their face and try to win parses. I want Pld to be mastered, so that I can more effectively tank things for actual events in game. Spamming Savage Blade with Naegling and Blurred Shield+1 has so little to do with my intent for Paladin in FFXI.

Jussayin...

On point. Everyone here always killing each other over being 5 seconds slower on doing an event. But happily piss away literal days being inefficient on CP.

You do what makes sense logically. It makes more sense to buy HQ gear than build a shield, so you do that. It makes more sense to buy an omen body than go again for your 100th+ time, so you do that. It makes more sense to make gains while you can't play, so you do that. That's all it is.

If you're not progressing while you're not playing you're not min/maxing.

Options on capping JP:

#1 Find 5 other undergeared, poverty striken and freshly leveled newbs who somehow got all the jobs you need and compete with the bots spawn. Hopefully you might get enough JP per day to get anywhere.

#2 Find 5 great friends who got great gear and are still dumb enough to play this game but somehow not maxed out on their important and useful jobs (like GEO) and not doing anything important to power level your naked DRK to 2100JP.

#3 Pay the bots and watch netflix, go to sleep or do something exciting while your character level itself.

#4 Do the botting yourself by leveling 2 alts and maybe sell your service for cash.

Between begging random people who might be idiots to somehow function well and long enough to beat the bots and doing something exciting, it's not much of a choice.

I didn't learn WHM in CP/exp pt either. I learned most of whm in delve back in 2013 when it was the endgame.

CP/EXP pt doesn't teach much, tbh. The demand is too little. In fact most CP pt can be done without a whm so a real WHM really wouldn't learn much from it.


Theres nothing that needs to "rationalize" about what's fun and what's not. "Having fun" is a pure subjective matter.

The game has tons of content. Not enjoying 1 aspect of it doesn't mean the game isn't for them. Maybe they enjoy something else?


I'm actually pretty curious, what's your definition of "good"? I've see all types of player in my entire ffxi career, personally I don't see a direct relationship between how they progress their character and skill level. Unless your definition of "good" is different from mine.

Yes, past version of me before our nap. All is proceeding as we had foreseen.

Oh ***, this did start out as a player warning thread.

Well played, Valen, well played....

Nobody said anything about rationalizing fun. I'm pretty sure you knew that.


Same definition as anybody else. In this game, I've ran into many who paid for their "success" (lack of a better word) and could not, for the life of them, grasp simple mechanics in any content. They had a toolbox full of tools that they had no idea how to use. Yet they liked to refer to themselves as "high tier players."

In MTG, the same people who pay a bunch of money to copy other people's ideas never win local tournaments. They're usually always the first to go in multiplayer games. Yet they like to call themselves "pros". I mean, why spend time and learn cards and how to play them when you can just pay for something someone else did the work on? Min/max, yo!

Or on PSN, the guy with 100 platinum trophies for many games he'd never even played and likes to refer to himself as a "top gamer." He says that he played 2 of the games and earned the trophies himself. So what sense does it make for him to earn the other 98 by himself? Someone else did it. It's the same thing, right?

Seriously, you can play however you want and label yourself whatever you want as well. Its your game. I just find it odd these days, how people can find enjoyment out of having others play something for them and reap the rewards for it. I mean, if you wanna go buy yourself a black market Oscar, knock yourself out. Nobody is telling you how to play. Just that its kinda weird.

Why does it bother you so much? What they do. Jealous they have more gil than you or something? You are like a dog with a bone.. let it go geez

In FFXI, it's both completely possible to buy everything and be amazing at a job, and do everything yourself and completely suck at it.

I've played with countless people who never bought anything outside the auction house or bazaars, doing everything themselves, and still don't even understand what half their JAs do or how to properly evaluate equipment for their sets. At this point in the game, FFXI "skill" is primarily knowing how to do a job via research and built-up knowledge, with experience and practice being minor factors at best. Someone who knows the workings of the game, what stats are important for what jobs and for what sets, when to use specific sets, JAs, and spells, how the enemies you're fighting behave, etc, will outperform 90% of people on any job they choose without even a iota of direct experience.

Your analogies are also way off, because the stuff people buy (with a few exceptions, like master trial shiny weapons) in FFXI aren't seen as "achievements" in themselves, and no one of any intelligence brags about completing that type of content.

It doesn't bother me. Not sure how in any world you came to that conclusion o_O

I just said I found it odd, explained why. And I said this more than once.

Because you are literally the only person who keeps harping about it, and so many people have given you reasons as to why even the OP. But for whatever reason you can’t seem to understand it.

Stop asking questions then complaining when someone answers. That too is a little odd.

And I never said I didn't understand their reasonings. Why make things up at this point? o_O

The only person is you lol. You can’t stop. With that said I’m done because obviously something is not quite all there with you.

Not something all there with me when you're asking me questions, then getting upset with me when I answer? o_O That's weird...

You're not going to win against the "Merc all my ***" mentality of this community, You're just shouting at a wall at this point.

Personally think you are playing the game as intended Matt. But meh.

On that note I have never paid mercs for a single win or piece of gear. I have however had countless friends help me through the years with bumping me up with "power leveling" some stuff.

The argument that a CP/XP grind doesn't train you on a job's mechanics can be argued with 2 important points. 1 muscle memory, 2 getting a very good grip on JA timers to the point that you don't need timer cool downs all over your screen to know when they are ready.

No it will not teach you all of the mechanics of extreme fights. But it will give you a chance to practice some different maneuvers in a safer environment that won't just frustrate your group.

I think everyone should at least do a 500 jp grind per job to get familiar with what it can do at 99.

I would not dare take my 0JP 99run straight to end game without getting my feet wet first on it. If anything else doing some CP the legit way gives you a chance to skillup for free, and test the job out to see if you even like it.

Also, back around to endgame, each and every event is pretty unique as far as what it takes to win, it takes trial and error to get the fights down solid, a full merced 1-99+2100jp job ain't gonna cut it. You will learn what the job does one way or another, but doing it the old fashioned way will earn you much more respect, not annoy your endgame buddies, gives you a chance to refine your macros, and gives you a real sense of accomplishment. Hands down.

Don't be "that guy" who's gonna learn his brand new job in real content that people are relying on you to know your role at a bare minimum capability. However you get to master.

Edit: on a side note, I have never had an opportunity to make tons of Gil in this game, missed all the good easy money, didn't even get a chance hardly at acco/sparks. I value my Gil much more than my game time, so I prefer to spend it on more tangible things that will continue to be useful like equipment (even more so when it's multi job gear) but hey that's just me. You all do you boo boo.

I know, I wasn't trying to win anything, to be honest. I just didn't see the appeal in having someone else do things for you so I asked the question. Seems like it kinda depletes the purpose of the MMO itself, but that's just an observation. *shrug*

It's not the first time I've seen it, to be honest. There was a FPS game I played a long time ago where people began to develop scripts that would aim for you, set up your bases defense for you, etc and eventually, basically played the entire game for you while you could read a book. It's not unreasonable for anyone at that point to wonder the same thing.

I hear ya. To put it at a more basic example, FFVII, would have been much funner if it just played itself, amirite?

This.

But to complicate it even further, they can simultaneously exist in a single player. A lot of players, myself included, have jobs leveled and geared because we needed them for something but they aren't our focus. This was magnified in abyssea, because you could easily level a job, and with atma play the job effectively enough to get done what you need, without skill.

I have Whm, Cor, and Thf leveled specifically because during abyssea times I could cure bomb, roll and afk, and proc TH. I didn't ever need to learn to play the jobs. However I would never claim to be "high tier" at any of those jobs. I try to avoid playing those jobs because I know, what I don't know.

But... That doesn't mean I'm not a high tier player at my main job(s). 1 person can be both. Regardless of whether mercd or not, and mercing for 1 job, doesn't mean you did it for all jobs.

With all due respect, that’s a stupid observation.

There’s too much content in FFXI. JP grinding is just one aspect of it, and it hardly prepares you for content where you have to prove whether you’re good or bad at your job.

An observation is neither stupid nor intelligent, it just exists. His extrapolation based on the observation could be, however.

“It seems to me that 11-1 equals 3.”

Only for extremely small values of 11

That's a conclusion, not an observation. Try again.

If being "good" to you means understanding mechanics, then I can tell you that paying mercs 100% has nothing to do with understanding mechanics. Knowing mechanics has more to do with checking BG wiki, reading forums and getting experience. Although getting experience may require a player to do the content multiple times, checking BG wiki and reading forum does not.

It is possible that people who dont understand mechanics ended up paying for mercs more often. Since people that understands mechanics can make their own party and save gil. I wouldn't pay 40m for a lilith E merc when I can solo it myself, nor pay 40m on omen drops when I can make my own party for it. So I imagine many people who pay for gears because they don't/can't make their own parties, thus you have such impression.

But there are also tons of people who get their gears without paying because they have a linkshell feeding them gears. In events they just need to follow simple orders to get win/drop. And they still don't understand mechanics because they aren't the one making parties.

Further more, since we are discussing CP parties, CP party is far worse than every other endgame content to gain job experience from. It's just mindless grinding over and over. At best it's useful to sort out macros and JA orders. But it shouldn't take more than 1-2 hr of practice to get a hand of it. And that isn't enough to 2100, that's when paying comes in.

So I can't quit understand why knowing mechanics has anything to do with paying merc or not. If people don't want to learn, getting free gears from the LS won't make them knowledgeable.


That's because for some people, including myself,"getting trophy" isn't the real enjoyment of this game.

I can't speak for the others, personally I enjoy theory crafting in FFXI the most. That includes coming up with new strategy to play the job.

Gears and JP are just tools that help me theorycraft. They are not the goal of playing the game. I don't really care how I obtain these tools as long as its not shady means like stealing from the others.

With all due respect your observation is so stupid to an extreme I'll care not to even explative upon.

MMO's aren't a beat it in a weekend sort of game, ya ******* stupid ****.

They aren't a game meant to be completed fully, by a normal human being, played as recreation in their spare time.

all stats stacked, all gears geeked, all pets praised, all dungeons dominated, all fiends felled, all crafts capped, all costumes consumed, all weapons wrapped, all magicks manifested, all mounts muzzled, all quests quelled, all monstrosities manipulated, all gardens grown, all jobs jerbed, all pulses plussed, all DREAMA's dreamed, all unity united, all campaigns collaborated, all gils gotten, shall I continue?

Not even in a year straight of play time, believe me or not I have the hours, let alone half a lifetime, that's the *** point of a game like this. The first true Final Fantasy that we have ever had available in the realm of the title.

And all people wanna do is Skip Cutscenes to the very end for the sake of? This game is about the experience of the journey, not the destination. Spoiler alert there is no destination. That is the point....

With all due respect, it could be just an observation though, possibly from a perspective your non-XI-playing friends, or family (people from your real world, I know such a scary thought) may share if you explained to them how mercing and/or being merced and/or RMTing means you're winning the game.

Saying "with all due respect" is not a pass excusing two words later directly insulting someone's intelligence, with the basest of words available in the human language to do so, because it is literally disrespectful.

And let's just go ahead and not even touch on a bot start to finish beating the game for you, because I would then just have to repeat myself thusly:


If you feel the above quoted statement to be true, the media of entertainment you really enjoy are called movies.

Edit, you bet I edited this a few times, deal with it, this is the message you can't seem to comprehend. So it needs clarification from a drunken stupor.

I think everyone just really likes FF12.

Whoa, this escalated quickly.


1. Actually, I don’t skip cutscenes. You’re assuming many things. I only skip the CP grind because I don’t like it. You do you, man. I think I’ll be wasting precious time doing it. So I won’t do it.

2. Everyone knows that the MMO experience is about the journey, not the destination. Also: each and every journey is unique to each player, so *** you very much for telling me how to play a game, thanks! I’m having a lot of fun my way. If I played your way I’d shoot myself in the head.


3. Saying someone said something stupid doesn’t mean you think they are stupid. Everyone can be stupid once in a while. Like you venting at people who play a game differently is laughably immature as ***. But are you always this immature, or immature period? I wouldn’t know.


4. Didn’t you just say MMOs can’t be beat...? Stop drinking. It makes you write incoherent garbage such as


You could’ve edited that better. Stop drinking!