It's That Time Again!

There was that one guy who got Apathy's name tattoo'd on his arm. He can be #1 fan. I don't think Ejin has an FFXI tattoo.... yet.

Im the #1 ffxi fan actually.

So your argument is that multiboxers need each box to have their own computer setup and they need to run 6 keyboards and that's the skill component?

If send is "sketchy other tools" there isn't a single person who has more than one box that shouldn't be banned. I know people who rage at how extensive of a cheater Ejin is and they use send on their dualbox, lol.

Skipped over the entire thread, but one thing I want to say:

how come are people blaming send while completely ignoring that Selindrile's GS suite, which last I checked Ejiin both used extensively and recommended poeople use, is basically an entire preconfigured botting framework neatly available on github with detailed instructions on how make it work fast and easily, with all the AutoDoThatModes that it has inside?

Suprisedpikachu.jpg all around.

Oh, did Ejin finally switch to Selindrile's luas? For the longest time he would sing its praises but never actually had transitioned to the luas, but that was a few months ago lol

Being that you skipped the entire thread (and I may not have said it in THIS thread) I say this every time it gets brought up. Gearswap IS botting. Selindrille's is more advanced botting, but even the base lua is botting.

You can scream all day long in disagreement but facts are facts. The best example is simply going from idle to tp automatically on engage, and back to idle, automatically on mob death. Even the most base level of gearswap does that.

THtag better example too.

Automation is automation is automation. There's no grey in that.

\

uhhhhh damn dude i've read some dumb shiiiiiii on here today.
but this last one took the cake.
you can do that with NORMAL IN GAME FUNCTIONS.
so no, not every gearswap is a bot....

anyway i mainly wanted to hop in the convo, and join the fun!
now continue on being dumb.
its ok, we understand it just comes naturally to you.

I dont think thats entirely the proper example, as its one button automation that you can do via native macros and equip set:

/equipset 1
/ws "tachi: fudo" <t>
/wait 1
/equipset 2

or whatever


Now having said that, there are plenty of zero button automation that gearswap does for you:
Change from your engaged set to your idle set when the mob dies
Equips fucho-no-obi on your idle set depending on your mp to the precise number
One button automation of a scholar self skillchain + MB(this part is doable:
/ja immanence <me> <wait 1>
/ma stone <t> <wait 4>
/ja immanence <me> <wait 1>
/ma aero <t> <wait 4>
/ma "Aero V" <t>) and applicable gear changes including fast cast, and MAB/MDMG on first 2 nukes and MAB/MBB on 3rd nuke (this part is absolutely not doable in one button press)

I get what you were saying though.

I could've picked a better example but I'm not that invested. It's an inarguable fact.

The best example is simply going from idle to tp automatically on engage, and back to idle, automatically on mob death. Even the most base level of gearswap does that.

THtag better example too.

well that's just HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE saying that...
i just did argue it.
i mean if you wanna spew something then spew something good at least lol.

???????????????? i am so confused ingame macro is not botting, but whatever caitsith is using is botting

An interesting way to look at addons is, if the addon you use was official and you had to pay $5 a month to unlock it would it be p2w.

GS would be, on many jobs it's incredibly OP.

You're literally just trolling right now--and not even doing a very good job at it. Feel free to go back to excluding yourself from the conversation as your contribution before joining and after are exactly the same.


There is so much that is wrong with this post, but I'll limit it to pointing out that it is a faulty generalization at best, and a piss poor attempt to either (a) justify or stretch something that isn't grey into grey area, or (b) strawman their argument.

Not to mention that the statement that *everybody* that multiboxes should be banned because you're assuming they use illegal third party tools/bot is a ridiculous attempt to contradict their point, regardless. It is not only inaccurate, but it ignores the premise altogether.

It comes down to the fact that "send" is a mechanism for botting and an illegal third party tool. Whether it is necessary for playing more than one char (it certainly isn't) or players use it while complaining about other players is entirely irrelevant.

myself and others have brought up supped up gearswap several times, no one is blaming send and send alone, it's just the only one that people argue is grey area, (it isn't really.) so therefore it gets a lot of the discussion

LoH's post isn't worth replying to, the above poster laid out what he's trying to do and it's generally his only tactic when he gets into arguments. no one here is saying to stop using windower. windower is generally not going to get you banned unless you're using some of the automation tools that have been built onto it.

It wasn't a strawman argument, it was a question.

If you don't understand how widely utilized send is, I'm not even sure why you're in this thread. And I'm not trying to say Send isn't an 'illegal third party tool', either. I'm just pointing out how frequently such a thing is throughout the community and taking a hard condemnation against it is crazy.

i am 100% trolling but so is this whole thread.


so i'll break it down for y'all.

if you log in with anything OTHER THEN NORMAL Playonline.
your cheating.
there is NO GRAY AREA.

it don't bloody matter how automated your stuff is.
WE ARE ALL CHEATERS.


so go ahead keep it all coming cheaters!
/grin

amuse the community if you can thats about the only use from this thread.

close to what?

I buhlee dis

My cheating what?

BAN

pos/flee is probably more popular than send. your argument is utterly terrible and in bad faith, as per usual.

Wow y'all still at this eh...

Everyone knows it's not a bot if doesn't have a gui.

Honestly I don't blame the player-base for going back and forth on this subject, I blame SE who clearly have drawn different hidden lines of what is acceptable and what is not, it's not the TOS otherwise anyone who touched windower would have been banned already, nor the blatant botting that no two individuals would disagree about since it's obvious, this leaves whatever in between...and it's almost impossible to find this line specially when SE do not stop regular blatant botting that often which muddles the line even further.

Other companies do tell you actually what their line is, like if a press of a button does more than 2 actions then that's a no, or when multi-boxing is allowed or not..

just FYI incase anyone needs the blizzard link interpreted for them, in world of warcraft send would be a bannable offense.

"Please note, however, that use of input broadcasting software may result in account penalties."

i do agree that SE should say "stop using X or we are going to ban for it." but most game companies don't do that and to be honest, they don't have to. it's laid out very well in their TOS that they can do whatever they want with your account.

all that being said, i feel like it should be pretty common sense that using something like send/roller/singer/gearswap on steroids is not going to be safe.

Send is flagged for allowing users to broadcast commands to multiple clients simultaneously without input from said clients. It's been addressed by other MMOs and is also a ban-worthy offense in those games. Before you jump on the "FFXI isn't other games" train, just be aware that those 'other games' DO support the use of third party tools and add-ons while SE does NOT.


Automation is a function of gearswap, not Selindrile's gearswap specifically. I'm pretty sure gearswap and it's functions react to states declared by windower. With that in mind, it's pretty clear to see why a 'no exceptions' approach to ALL third party software was taken.


All this said, I don't think SE's position has changed on the matter with exception to maybe bannedworm. Otherwise, you haven't committed a crime unless you're caught for it or you implicate yourself. They don't check to see if you're running scripts or not, they ban you after you're found to be running them and fail to respond to communication. If you're not obviously circumventing normal game mechanics (ie. positional/zoning/movement, forced break crafting, stamina kill fishing, ect) it's not something they could enforce.

Citation needed.

I've been looking at multiple results about WoW and multiboxing and every one has essentially said you'll need to setup a form of send software and has said Blizzard only has an issue when you use the multiboxing to grief others. And this included an article on engadget, which I kinda doubt would tell people to setup a bannable offense in WoW without any disclaimer.

Source

At best, it was poor hyperbole. But again, nowhere in my post did I indicate that send wasn't widely used. Rather, I stated that your blanket generalization was a ridiculous statement; it is also easily incorrect.

As for a hard condemnation, it isn't crazy in the slightest--the frequency of use in the community is completely irrelevant to whether or not the action should be condemned. A whole lot of people or only a few people can commit a wrong--it is still a wrong. Quit trying to argue around the point.