Circle Investigations
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Circle Investigations
 Asura.Epigram
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サーバ: Asura
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user: jlisic
Posts: 115
By Asura.Epigram 2020-07-22 22:01:45
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What did you do tonight? I hung out and hit skeletons and crabs with a level 1 sword and a k-club!

So the point of this post is to just document some findings about Killer Effects (KE), Killer Instinct (KI), and other Circles. Nothing ground breaking, but clears up some stuff that isn't documented.

Summary:

  • Sprits Within is great for testing this stuff.

  • BSTs benefit from each circle's +15 KE contributed to Nukumi Gausape +1 damage and a 1.15% damage multiplier.

  • Killer Effect merits only seem to affect native BST killer effects (Aquan, Beast, Vermin, Amorph, etc...) They don't help out with other circles.

  • At least Relic +3 hat works with all circles, I haven't checked other items, future todo.




Undead (Used Malevolence for +10 undead killer), Circle from PLD:
Code 
HP  SW DMG  Ratio WSD   Nukumi Gausape +1 Holy Circle Expected Ratio  Notes
2078  2285  1.10  1.10  1.00              1.00          1.10          +10 wsd 
2076  2389  1.15  1.00  1.00              1.15          1.15          circle  
2076  2554  1.23  1.00  1.07              1.15          1.23          circle + Nukumi
2087  2340  1.12  1.10  1.02              1.00          1.12          nukumi +5 killer +10 wsd  
2087  3034  1.45  1.10  1.15              1.15          1.45          nukumi circle +15 killer +10 wsd 
2087  2455  1.18  1.10  1.07              1.00          1.18          nukumi +15 killer +10 wsd 
2067  2170  1.05  1.00  1.05              1.00          1.05          nukumi +10 killer
2007  2007  1.00  1.00  1.02              1.00          1.02          nukumi merits (looks like merits don't work)  
2007  2107  1.05  1.00  1.05              1.00          1.05          nukumi merits + 10 killer 
2027  2385  1.18  1.10  1.07              1.00          1.18          nukumi merits +15 killer +10 wsd 
2027  2947  1.45  1.10  1.15              1.15          1.45          nukumi merits +15 killer + 10wsd


Crab: (Minor Correction)
Code 
HP    SW DMG  Ratio WSD   Nukumi Gausape +1 KI          Expected Ratio  Notes
1854  1983    1.07  1.00  1.07              1.00        1.07  merits
1845  2439    1.32  1.00  1.15              1.15        1.32  merits  KI
1989  2088    1.05  1.00  1.05              1.00        1.05   (erased merits lol)
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 Delagyela
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By Delagyela 2020-07-23 06:17:33
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grats
 Asura.Epigram
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By Asura.Epigram 2020-07-23 10:10:27
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I re-read Byrth's work and it looks like he had the merit thing before, it just never made it to the wiki. I guess the biggest thing here is that the Relic +3 head (like the AF pants) is for all effects.

I haven't seen anything on killer effects on NM's beyond intimidation rate decline. I'm not sure if that is just the intimidation or if it actually reduces the effect (checking tonight).

Bryth's Work

I'll update the wiki in the correct areas after this is done, it makes me wonder though why more DRKs don't use founders when fighting omen bosses with circles? At least for weapon skills.
 Asura.Geriond
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user: Gerion
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By Asura.Geriond 2020-07-23 10:57:07
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There was testing on NMs a few years ago; killer effects get chopped down to 2/3 of normal potency on NMs, both for intimidation rates and damage bonus from circles. This also affects stuff like Founder's Breastplate.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/131320-Killer-effect-testing
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/48529/the-official-bgwiki-thread/6#3181764

DRKs don't use it because we have Ignominy Cuirass +3. Comparing the pieces at 27% Arcana Killer (+1 Circle and natural job trait), nerfed down to 18% on NMs, you have:

Ignominy:
10% WSDMG
16 STR
3 DEX
9 VIT
28 ATK
30 ACC

vs

Founder's:
9% damage
3% DA

Ignominy is also superior defensively for when you get hit during WS.
 Asura.Epigram
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By Asura.Epigram 2020-07-23 12:31:06
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Ah thanks!

I think the interesting bit is that the circles/Founder's are separate multiplicative effects, and additional WSD is additive (not on the wiki, I'll double check tonight) so there is a point where a fixed KE exceeds adding 10 more WSD.

(1+ WSD/100) * ( KE/3) * CIRCLE > (1 + (WSD +10)/100) * CIRCLE

Dropping the CIRCLE from both sides and keeping KE constant at let's say 25. Then going from 50 -> 60 WSD would provide less benefit than using founders while Circles are active.

One thing I haven't seen though, is the circle/breastplate/Nukumi benefit for multi-hit weapon skills. I could be wrong, but this benefit should apply to all hits for something like resolution, as opposed to WSD. Honestly, I have no idea if it would be better than the DA you get from argosy +1, but it's worth taking a look at.
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