On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (v3)

言語: JP EN DE FR
2010-06-21
New Items
409 users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » White Mage » On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (v3)
On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (v3)
First Page 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Offline
Posts: 4068
By SimonSes 2021-01-07 05:31:23  
Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
But yes, essentially, for certain physical TP moves with a Status Effect attached, the only way to avoid the Status Effect is to evade the move entirely.

Which one tho? Because for sure you can avoid status effect attached to physical tp move even when you get hit with it (like avoiding being stunned by Replica's Seismostomp), so I guess you are talking about some exceptions?
 Sylph.Brahmsz
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Khronos
By Sylph.Brahmsz 2021-01-07 10:51:28  
SimonSes said: »
Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
But yes, essentially, for certain physical TP moves with a Status Effect attached, the only way to avoid the Status Effect is to evade the move entirely.

Which one tho? Because for sure you can avoid status effect attached to physical tp move even when you get hit with it (like avoiding being stunned by Replica's Seismostomp), so I guess you are talking about some exceptions?

I'm not sure why people are finding this so difficult to comprehend...

Are there physical TP moves with a Status Effect attached? Yes.

If a Status Effect is attached to said physical TP move, is it bound by physical evasion, magic evasion and even status resist checks? Yes.

Are there TP moves that completely ignore the magic evasion and status resist checks, meaning you can only avoid said Status Effect by physical evasion check of the TP move itself? Yes. But they are so few and far between, they are the exception to that rule.
 Asura.Pergatory
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Pergatory
Posts: 1175
By Asura.Pergatory 2021-01-07 11:05:19  
SimonSes said: »
Which one tho? Because for sure you can avoid status effect attached to physical tp move even when you get hit with it (like avoiding being stunned by Replica's Seismostomp), so I guess you are talking about some exceptions?
If the move lands, even for 0 dmg, then the ailment has a chance to land but you can still evade it with magic evasion. If it doesn't land in that case, then it was due to magic evasion.

If you evade the move entirely, then magic evasion doesn't factor in, the ailment just doesn't land.

I hope that helps!
Offline
Posts: 4068
By SimonSes 2021-01-07 16:01:58  
Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
SimonSes said: »
Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
But yes, essentially, for certain physical TP moves with a Status Effect attached, the only way to avoid the Status Effect is to evade the move entirely.

Which one tho? Because for sure you can avoid status effect attached to physical tp move even when you get hit with it (like avoiding being stunned by Replica's Seismostomp), so I guess you are talking about some exceptions?

I'm not sure why people are finding this so difficult to comprehend...

Are there physical TP moves with a Status Effect attached? Yes.

If a Status Effect is attached to said physical TP move, is it bound by physical evasion, magic evasion and even status resist checks? Yes.

Are there TP moves that completely ignore the magic evasion and status resist checks, meaning you can only avoid said Status Effect by physical evasion check of the TP move itself? Yes. But they are so few and far between, they are the exception to that rule.

It's not hard to comprehend at all. I understood it very well, I just thought he might knows this few exceptions because I would like to know them too.
Offline
Posts: 608
By DaneBlood 2021-01-07 16:56:54  
Asura.Pergatory said: »
SimonSes said: »
Which one tho? Because for sure you can avoid status effect attached to physical tp move even when you get hit with it (like avoiding being stunned by Replica's Seismostomp), so I guess you are talking about some exceptions?
If the move lands, even for 0 dmg, then the ailment has a chance to land but you can still evade it with magic evasion. If it doesn't land in that case, then it was due to magic evasion.

If you evade the move entirely, then magic evasion doesn't factor in, the ailment just doesn't land.

I hope that helps!

just for clarification but that is not really the question he asked.

Sylph.Brahmsz posted a statesmen that some spell if their physical part lands then that is all it takes, and no amount of magic evasion will help you against the additional effect. or rather there is no additonal magic hit that needs to land for the effect to take....effect.

SimonSes is asking into which moves these are as he is curious to know

both of them know how the normal "phys hit first then magic hit" works
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 1587
By Asura.Geriond 2021-01-07 17:07:06  
Any and all encumbrance moves ignore MEVA like that.

Certain Dispels do too, like Ironside's Turbine Cyclone.
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2463
By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-01-07 17:16:02  
Asura.Geriond said: »
Any and all encumbrance moves ignore MEVA like that.

Certain Dispels do too, like Ironside's Turbine Cyclone.
Good examples. I would note that both of these also circumvent shield block's status prevention for physical WS.

And to add to the pile, I believe the hydra move Trembling(dispel) is also like this.
 Asura.Shiraj
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Shiraj
Posts: 909
By Asura.Shiraj 2021-01-07 17:39:22  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Asura.Geriond said: »
Any and all encumbrance moves ignore MEVA like that.

Certain Dispels do too, like Ironside's Turbine Cyclone.
Good examples. I would note that both of these also circumvent shield block's status prevention for physical WS.

And to add to the pile, I believe the hydra move Trembling(dispel) is also like this.

If you evade these, they also miss. RUN's parry rate is very nice for Trembling, however you can't parry Turbine Cyclone.
Also Terror from Odin in Black and White master trial. You can parry to avoid that.

go go evasion builds?
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2463
By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-01-07 17:46:16  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
however you can't parry Turbine Cyclone.
This seems odd. You can shield block Turbine Cyclone, so it has to be a physical attack. And should thus, be parry-able as well.

How did you determine that it could not be parried?

A blocked Turbine cyclone. Block message via battlemod addon.
 Asura.Shiraj
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Shiraj
Posts: 909
By Asura.Shiraj 2021-01-07 17:47:41  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
How did you determine that it could not be parried?
I think I had a brain fart and was thinking about counter tbh. Some tp moves and auto attacks can't be countered, so I think I just had some mess up.
Edit:
I do know though, that some moves are physical, that cannot be parried though, an Ironclad's Stomp for example, that cannot be parried, but can be blocked.
However my first statement was a brain fart, I've not tested Turbine Cyclone with parrying.
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2463
By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-01-07 17:52:08  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
How did you determine that it could not be parried?
I think I had a brain fart and was thinking about counter tbh. Some tp moves and auto attacks can't be countered, so I think I just had some mess up.
Ahh. I don't think any tp move can be countered. As for autoattacks.. I suspect the ones that themselves sort of count as WS, aoe melee attack, like Ironclads, or multi hit animations that show as a single hit(Gabranth triple bite), would not be counter-able. Any normal melee auto attack should be valid to counter though.
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Also Terror from Odin in Black and White master trial. You can parry to avoid that.
Hmmm. I wonder if shield blocks could prevent this as well then, being physical and thus blockable?... that said there have been things that blocks can't prevent so it could fall under that classification.

When I did this fight on PLD, I used Aegis, so blocking wasn't happening. lol.
 Asura.Shiraj
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Shiraj
Posts: 909
By Asura.Shiraj 2021-01-07 17:54:18  
You can probably test with Priwen and stack geo fend/attunement on you maybe?

I know if all adds are alive it's rough without Aegis, but not so bad if they're dead.

Edit:
But yeah I think it's a limited selection of AoE TP moves that cannot be parried, similar to how some form of AoE auto attacks cannot be countered.

From the top of my head, Byakko has 3 different auto attack animations, and only 1 of them is counterable. Something similar with Seiryu as well.
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2463
By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-01-07 17:54:28  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
I do know though, that some moves are physical, that cannot be parried though, an Ironclad's Stomp for example, that cannot be parried, but can be blocked.
Hmm. I've not tested parries on that one myself. I'll put it on my "Might test" list though. If I can unlazy enough to make the walk out to the Ironclad camp.
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2463
By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-01-07 19:34:15  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
I do know though, that some moves are physical, that cannot be parried though, an Ironclad's Stomp for example, that cannot be parried, but can be blocked.
I went to play with some Ironclads. I actually meant to go to the Apex Ironclads, but didn't plan the route ahead of time and went the wrong way. lol.

Anyway. Set up a tp change report, then battuta'd while wearing a parry focused set.

The two marked misses here were stomp attacks. Sadly I have no way to actually demonstrate that short of a full video, and I'm not going that for for this. Bit of a pain in the *** that there's no way to tell in the logs which attack animation was used but, well...

So, while the attacks in question missed, the TP change report and the timestamp show that these were parries, as the 40 TP return is the Tactical parry return value.

It really sucks that Kenshi wasn't able to find anything in the packets for these that would show if it was a miss or a parry. But if the info to tell them apart isn't in the packet, what can you do?

Anyway, it does not appear that any of the Ironclads melee attacks were unparry-able.
[+]
 Asura.Shiraj
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Shiraj
Posts: 909
By Asura.Shiraj 2021-01-07 20:27:13  
Oh damn, that's good to know. I never thought to check using that method for TP gain. I retract my statement then, good work man.
Offline
Posts: 608
By DaneBlood 2021-01-08 22:31:16  
is there any reason for going above 500 enhacing skill for bar status. Do we know if the strength caps there as well ( like bar elemental does)?

right now my enhancing skill set puts me at 546 and i kinda want to remove some of the gear and replace it with duration instead if it does not negative impact the performance
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 905
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2021-01-08 23:33:31  
since there is no actual display for bar status I don't think we'll ever say with 100% certainty, but the only spells that go over 500 skill were introduced after 99 cap.
 Asura.Buffyslyph
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4
By Asura.Buffyslyph 2021-01-12 03:41:20  
Outfitting a whm mule, not gonna min/max but want something functional. Any suggestions on an idle set for DT-/Refresh?
 Asura.Wotasu
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Wotasu
Posts: 82
By Asura.Wotasu 2021-01-12 03:56:48  
Asura.Buffyslyph said: »
Outfitting a whm mule, not gonna min/max but want something functional. Any suggestions on an idle set for DT-/Refresh?
ItemSet 373998
8-9 refresh, 36 -pdt, can use Ayamno when needing more pdt/dt
Can swap the body for Ebers, head for Befouled Crown
 Asura.Buffyslyph
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4
By Asura.Buffyslyph 2021-01-13 05:41:01  
Thanks for that Wotasu, that got me started. I'm leaning towards something like this:

ItemSet 377557

That is -49 PDT and -50 MDT and refresh +8

If I replace Homilary with Staunch Talthum +1 that puts me at 50/50 -DT and I can free up the earring slot that has Genmei in it, but I'd lose a refresh tick.

I don't love latent, so not a fan of the waist item you linked.

Is there another PDT waist I can use to cap -PDT, or are there full-time regen waist/earrings I'm not looking at? Dawn earring is daytime only. Considering using Ethereal instead of Genmei too.

So to summarize:

1. I'm looking for a full-time regen earring or waist piece (ideally both)
2. I'm looking for a -PDT waist to cap -PDT without giving up a refresh tick as outlined above.
 Asura.Wotasu
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Wotasu
Posts: 82
By Asura.Wotasu 2021-01-13 07:46:41  
Infused Earring Regen +1
You could swap the Stikini+1 for Inyanga Ring and still get the +1 refresh(save gil)and gain meva which is nice.
With Shell V you dont need to hit -50MDT.
Ayanmo Ring has -3dt but no Refresh.

Dont think Whm have access to a PDT waist sadly.
Slipor Sash is a common idle for the +3MDB,
Another is Embla Sash for +3 Sublimation
Carrier Sash has +15 to Elemental Resist which helps MEVA.

If you have access to Inyanga Tiara +2 it's a better option to Befoulded Crown from the extra Meva, and you still get the +1 Refresh from set bonus.
 Asura.Pergatory
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Pergatory
Posts: 1175
By Asura.Pergatory 2021-01-13 11:38:01  
Just to add my 2 cents:

Capping PDT isn't super important on WHM, as they generally shouldn't be in the thick of the fight. I'm usually standing some 18-20' away from the mob most of the time. I think my most commonly-used idle set for WHM has something like 35-40 PDT and that's including Shamash Robe.

I find that magic evasion is often far more important, because while physical damage will rarely pose a threat to a WHM, ailments can and do. Particularly paralyze & silence. You'll generally be using Barspells to protect against those, plus the high magic evasion from gear like Inyanga, means your magic evasion is generally high enough to start seeing increasing returns from adding further magic evasion. That's why, for example, I'm a big fan of the Carrier's Sash for idle.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 608
By DaneBlood 2021-01-13 11:47:09  
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Just to add my 2 cents:

Capping PDT isn't super important on WHM, as they generally shouldn't be in the thick of the fight. I'm usually standing some 18-20' away from the mob most of the time.

I concur in my experience ( and i might be wrong) i see much more of enfeeble stuff going on in the 20 yalms range than Dmg attack

However im working on having 2 different idle sets based on MP
-One with focus on Meva/resist that is in use when MP is high
- one focussed on refresh when MP gets low

E.g. the refresh belt only works with MP beloe 50% do there is no need to have it in the idle set when MP is high
Offline
Posts: 608
By DaneBlood 2021-01-13 11:59:44  
Asura.Wotasu said: »
Another is Embla Sash for +3 Sublimation.

Side questions.
Does sublimination increase the amout of HP stored or just the speed to get it full?
if its in the later that might be a bad idea as it will mean sublimination is actually charging in a shorter time and thereby protecting you against sleep for a shorter time?
 Asura.Wotasu
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Wotasu
Posts: 82
By Asura.Wotasu 2021-01-13 12:11:13  
DaneBlood said: »
Asura.Wotasu said: »
Another is Embla Sash for +3 Sublimation.

Side questions.
Does sublimination increase the amout of HP stored or just the speed to get it full?
if its in the later that might be a bad idea as it will mean sublimination is actually charging in a shorter time and thereby protecting you against sleep for a shorter time?
How fast you fill the MP Tank. And yes shorter sleep protection.
[+]
First Page 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Log in to post.