Destiny's Device - A New/Updated Rune Fencer Guide

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2010-06-21
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Destiny's Device - A New/Updated Rune Fencer Guide
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2024-05-15 03:46:40  
/WHM (but /SCH is a perfectly valid alternative) was my subjob of choice on RUN for a large variety of content but if we're talking about recent ones I could list 8 Sortie bosses with Mage setup.

In Sortie you don't need to supertank, as such you don't need the boons from /BLU (mostly cocoon and AoE tagging).
To be fair, /WHM can be perfectly fine for tagging as well, you have Diaga and Banishga.
Can heal yourself and others just fine with a decent Cpot capped DT midcast set. Not that there's much healing involved in those sortie runs tbf...
It's also nice for sneak/invi and for -na
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 Cerberus.Echohawk
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By Cerberus.Echohawk 2024-05-15 03:54:44  
Nice I'll check it out. I think there's a few other misc situations I could make use of /whm over the more common choices. Are you curing in Sroda belt too? I feel like the mp management shouldnt be too hard and it frees up a lot of other dt slots.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2024-05-15 04:02:33  
Cerberus.Echohawk said: »
Are you curing in Sroda belt too?
Aye.
Hard to cap DT and Cpot without Sroda Belt. Is that even possible at all?
As I mentioned before you have your own Refresh, idle Refresh and if things really go wrong you can Umbrax3 and Vivacious Pulse for MP.
But like I said there's not that much healing involved at all, as such the additional MP cost from Sroda is not really an issue.
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2024-05-15 12:24:54  
I think /WHM and /SCH kind of serve two different purposes. /WHM is for group healing support (Curagas) while /SCH is more for utility (e.g. Sneakga and AoE ailment removal). If you don't need to heal the whole party, then it's hard for me to imagine a scenario where you'd want /WHM over /SCH. /SCH is basically just better unless you have a specific need for /WHM such as, again, Curagas.

In terms of Sortie, RUN/WHM is a viable alternative to PLD in Aminon melee setups (where the tank doubles as the party's healer).

As for RUN/SCH, like Sechs pointed out it allows you a better ability to heal yourself compared to /BLU which can lessen the burden on your other mages. Yes, people who buy/bot MLs probably have access to Magic Fruit, but /SCH also gives you ailment removal without relying on meds or the 60 second Vivacious Pulse ability, Reraise, Sneak/Invis, and a few other tools. Additionally, you can Sneakga your party after a boss as people gather for Bolters and maybe save them some meds, as well as helping remove ailments at times (like Accession Erase after C/G to remove peoples' Bind). I really like popping Accession on mini-bosses (Botulus/Naraka/etc) so that I can Sneakga the party the moment it dies. None of this is game-changing, but it's convenient and makes you more self-reliant.
 Valefor.Dathus
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By Valefor.Dathus 2024-06-08 18:14:10  
Is the Ambuscade Gaxe the best one RUN can use? Getting one for our RUN tank for Ongo fight preparation.
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 Phoenix.Xax
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By Phoenix.Xax 2024-06-08 19:23:52  
theres the su2 great axe as well for full break. either works
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By Taint 2024-06-08 19:26:31  
Why GA? Most use 1h Axe to extend SCs.
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By Nariont 2024-06-08 19:45:57  
If its to extend the SC then you'd be better off using a ambu axe/beryllium pick, while you got higher acc with gaxe they're all 1 hitters and subject to the 95% acc cap and you dont want to lose the chain. So ruinator's typically the way to go.

Still handy to have a gaxe for armor/full break(hepatzion) or a fusion option via upheav
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [65 days between previous and next post]
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2024-08-12 12:05:42  
So at ML50 my current enha set for Temper has 584 Enha skill.
Currently not using Manasa Chasuble and Merciful Cape, with those I would reach 601. Is 601 the highest amount possible?
Not sure it's worth it, given the amount of DT, HP and other stats I would lose for swapping in Body and Back.

Also, is there some Enhancing Skill gear for the feet slot and Ammo slot that I forgot to consider? Some augmented ***maybe?
I couldn't find anything.
 Ragnarok.Creaucent
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By Ragnarok.Creaucent 2024-08-12 13:31:49  
Asura.Sechs said: »
So at ML50 my current enha set for Temper has 584 Enha skill.
Currently not using Manasa Chasuble and Merciful Cape, with those I would reach 601. Is 601 the highest amount possible?
Not sure it's worth it, given the amount of DT, HP and other stats I would lose for swapping in Body and Back.

Also, is there some Enhancing Skill gear for the feet slot and Ammo slot that I forgot to consider? Some augmented ***maybe?
I couldn't find anything.

551 was max at 119 so yeah 601 is the max at ML50.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2024-08-12 13:53:35  
How are you guys balancing Duration vs Skill for Temper?
Granted that Temper is not exactly the most useful spell in nowadays' content for RUN, so either way probably not really worth discussing I guess.

Atm I have a set focused on skill (584) while also getting as close as possible to DT cap and mantaining a high level of HP so that my HP doesn't drop a town when I move from my idle/tank set to my temper set.

I dunno how to balance duration vs skill in this, but my stance is that Temper is mildly useful in general, but if you are in one of those situations where it counts, then I'd rather have as much potency as possible, instead than slightly more duration.
 Ragnarok.Creaucent
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By Ragnarok.Creaucent 2024-08-12 15:01:36  
Asura.Sechs said: »
How are you guys balancing Duration vs Skill for Temper?
Granted that Temper is not exactly the most useful spell in nowadays' content for RUN, so either way probably not really worth discussing I guess.

Atm I have a set focused on skill (584) while also getting as close as possible to DT cap and mantaining a high level of HP so that my HP doesn't drop a town when I move from my idle/tank set to my temper set.

I dunno how to balance duration vs skill in this, but my stance is that Temper is mildly useful in general, but if you are in one of those situations where it counts, then I'd rather have as much potency as possible, instead than slightly more duration.

At ML50 using the capped set on the first page you can swap to Relic legs and Regal Gauntlets and still get 26% DA. Leaving out the body only lowers you by 1%.
 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-08-12 16:29:33  
I do duration over potency.

If I'm tanking, I don't want to recast for safety. If I'm AM3 I don't want to recast because it would lower dps and I'd rather have less DA. If I'm just pretending to be a light DD, my sets are QA and TA so DA is filler and recast again would lower dps.

This is all hyperbole, but it's still my thought process and I like longer duration as I am career RDM.
---
I still have a button that does max temper by dropping my tp for the enhancing magic skill sword and putting the body on which I use at the beginning of fights, before I have tp. Same with my max phalanx set that also drops tp for the phalanx+ sword. I guess I could go get the Aquaveil+ greatsword while I'm doing silly things like this.
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2024-09-09 04:03:48  
I'm wondering if anyone can offer suggestions for alternative pieces on this Resist all Status Ailments set; I need as much as possible.

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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2024-09-09 04:27:23  
No ambu cape? Can get Staus Ailment +10 with Resin.
Doesn't directly help with Status Ailment Resistance but don't forget Regis in OH for a small amount of additional Def and MDB!


May I wonder where specifically you're goin to use this and how you intend to get DT?


Last but not least: Status Ailment Cap.
I'm pretty confident there's a cap somewhere and you can't stack 100% of it and expect to resist any ailment everytime.
In your current set, assuming Ambu cape, you have 106% resistance, so probably ~4% more than necessary and despite the fact there is no extensive test on this specific topic, I'm pretty confident the cap is somewhere below 100%

Considering what I just said, suddenly Erilaz hands +3 become an interesting alternative to volte, despite the 2% less ailment resistance and the lower Meva.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2024-09-09 04:27:37  
Sadly there's not much else for RUN that I'm aware of. Although you can get another +10 on an ambu cape, resin aug.

If you're actively targeting a specific status effect with your runes, and using Pflug, then AF feet would actually be a bit better than Volte feet, for rune matching status. 12 with 3 runes vs 10. Too bad the pflug gear enhancement is checked on status application and not on JA use... actually having to wear the AF feet sucks.

But if this is a more general multi-status resist set, then that wouldn't be all that helpful.

Also, I suspect you're already aware, but while Erilaz hands+3 have 2 less resist all than Volte, they are a vast improvement defensively(Except for meva.) Up to you whether you prioritize the 2 resist all vs the other defensive stats.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2024-09-09 04:30:15  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Last but not least: Status Ailment Cap.
I'm pretty confident there's a cap somewhere and you can't stack 100% of it and expect to resist any ailment everytime.
In your current set, assuming Ambu cape, you have 106% resistance, so probably ~4% more than necessary and despite the fact there is no extensive test on this specific topic, I'm pretty confident the cap is somewhere below 100%
You can stack up to 180% resist trait value to get 90% resist rate post NM nerf. The cap is technically 90%, but that cap is applied post NM nerf so higher values are stil useful vs NMs.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2024-09-09 04:32:18  
Ah right I forgot to consider it gets halved on NMs, then nevermind all I just said of course.
Is 90% the cap btw? Was this thoroughfully tested or just hypothesized?
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By Asura.Shiraj 2024-09-09 04:34:32  
I brain farted and didn't even think of this, ty
Asura.Sechs said: »
May I wonder where specifically you're goin to use this and how you intend to get DT?
I'm trying to make a set for the August Master trial. Trying to cheese en-doom with close to 100% status resist rate, but looking bleak.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2024-09-09 04:35:40  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Ah right I forgot to consider it gets halved on NMs, then nevermind all I just said of course.
Is 90% the cap btw? Was this thoroughfully tested or just hypothesized?
It's been tested. I don't seem to have the specific post bookmarked, but I believe most of the testing for this occurred in this thread.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/52250/resist-testing/

iirc this thread both confirmed the existence NM potency nerf, and the effective cap.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2024-09-09 04:44:13  
Shiraj if I recall "Resist All" doesn't work on some things like Death and Endoom and also Terror and a couple of other things too.
Works on everything else.

I could be wrong but I seem to recall a test against the Rabbit in Escha-Zi'tah showing that gear with "Resist Death" worked against endoom.
Don't quote me on that though, I tried to do a quick search but couldn't find any reference so I could be misremembering here.

Supposing I'm right, you might want to stack resist-death gear, not resist all.
Think you can get up to Death Resist +50% on RUN, wonder if this gets halved on NMs as well, probably does I bet...
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2024-09-09 04:46:18  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Shiraj if I recall "Resist All" doesn't work on some things like Death and Endoom and also Terror and a couple of other things too.
Works on everything else.

I could be wrong but I seem to recall a test against the Rabbit in Escha-Zi'tah showing that gear with "Resist Death" worked against endoom.
Don't quote me on that though, I tried to do a quick search but couldn't find any reference so I could be misremembering here.
Yeah I couldn't find much info on it either, I probably searched wrong thing, atm I was just hoping, probably coping to think it'd work lol.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2024-09-09 04:48:49  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Yeah I couldn't find much info on it either, I probably searched wrong thing, atm I was just hoping, probably coping to think it'd work lol.
Confirmation that Resist All doesn't work against death/endoom can be found HERE.

Confirmation that "Resist Death" works against Endoom instead... is nowhere to be found lol. I tried to look for it but found nothing, I'm starting to wonder if I dreamt about it >_>


Of course, this says nothing about August specifically because for all we know he could be the exception and have his endoom coded in a different way so that "Resit All" works on it, who knows?
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2024-09-09 04:50:32  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Shiraj if I recall "Resist All" doesn't work on some things like Death and Endoom and also Terror and a couple of other things too.
Works on everything else.

I could be wrong but I seem to recall a test against the Rabbit in Escha-Zi'tah showing that gear with "Resist Death" worked against endoom.
Don't quote me on that though, I tried to do a quick search but couldn't find any reference so I could be misremembering here.

Supposing I'm right, you might want to stack resist-death gear, not resist all.
Think you can get up to Death Resist +50% on RUN, wonder if this gets halved on NMs as well, probably does I bet...
Wrathhare is en-death, not en-doom, so death resist gear working makes sense there.

Dekar has done some testing of resist ailments vs doom, but has had mixed results. check the later posts in the linked thread. Some sources of doom were resistable via resist all, and others weren't. Where En-doom, and from this specific source, falls I couldn't say.

Also, there's a lot of things resist all doesn't work on. Like say, any form of stat down, str down, def down, etc. The general rule of thumb is, if there's a resist trait for it, resist all applies. Though there are some cases where there's not an actual job trait, but there's resist gear for it and it stils works. Though, as mentioned, resist death, and terror are their own thing, and resist all doesn't work on those either.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2024-09-09 04:57:47  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
I'm trying to make a set for the August Master trial. Trying to cheese en-doom with close to 100% status resist rate, but looking bleak.
This post(check near the end) shows an instance of Warding round(the song) working to proc Resist! vs an instance of doom. The estimated potency is considerable, so combined with your set, I think it would get you to 180 for 90% resist. Assuming, that resist all/warding round is applicable to this specific from of doom. That's the main thing.
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By Asura.Shiraj 2024-09-09 05:00:12  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Of course, this says nothing about August specifically because for all we know he could be the exception and have his endoom coded in a different way so that "Resit All" works on it, who knows?
Yeah I'm unsure if it'll work, I suppose it's worth the try, but will be a while before I could draw any conclusion. It'd be 1 auto attack per wipe/try lol.

Ragnarok.Martel said: »
This post(check near the end)
Thank you!
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2024-09-09 05:03:00  
I'm not well informed about the details of the master trial... Does the en-doom have an ridiculously short timer or something? You'd think a Gambantein WHM could clear it as it applied if it had any reasonable count down. And abuse Divine Caress to buy some more time. Oh, or is it just one of those *** unremovable versions of a status effect?
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By Asura.Shiraj 2024-09-09 05:05:10  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
I'm not well informed about the details of the master trial... Does the en-doom have an ridiculously short timer or something? You'd think a Gambantein WHM could clear it as it applied if it had any reasonable count down. And abuse Divine Caress to buy some more time. Oh, or is it just one of those *** unremovable versions of a status effect?
Well there's limited groups testing, and with our group there is no place for a WHM, but we've had 6 people use a ***load of Holy water + cursna with gear +received etc and not a single removable. Also SE's "confirmation" by moving the bug report into "working as intended" so to say that it's unremovable via Cursna + holy water.
It lasts for 30s, gets applied on very first auto attack.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2024-09-09 05:11:11  
Hmmm, the holy water removal rate with full gear is quite high (80%+ iirc), so if you haven't seen a single success in multiple sets of 30 seconds of Holy water spam, yeah. At the least, holy water doesn't work. Honestly, I don't see there being much chance cursna would work if holy water doesn't. Very much sounds like a *** unremovable version.

Stuff like this makes me wonder just wtf SE intended players to do.

Sad thing is, even if the resist set works, there'd still be a 10% chance for the doom to land due to the 90% cap, and once it does you're dead in 30 seconds.
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2024-09-09 05:13:11  
Yeah this is why I'm prodding at weird gimmick things like this, I think our group has slowed down on attempts, but I still like to theory craft and wanna see how we can luck/cheese our way through it lol. I don't think it'd work, but always a slim chance ig.
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