Coronavirus Death Toll Estimation USA

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Coronavirus death toll estimation USA
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By Terlet Sangria 2020-07-18 20:16:15  
The gist of Hideka's post was that it had an original medical definition. Sure. Here's where we differ:

Quote:
by that same standard, nearly EVERY offensive adjective becomes a slur. This would include words like 'fat', 'old', 'ugly','thief','racist', 'rapist', 'spineless' etc. etc. Everything cant be a slur.


Let's talk about punching down. That word in particular is used to compare the target to people who, through no fault of their own, are going to have a much harder life than you will. Using it as an insult is meant as a deliberate comparison to people with legitimate problems, stating that both they and your target are worthy of derision. Whatever its origin, it is definitely being used a slur now, so not only are you splitting hairs, but you're not even correct.

Find a new word. There's a whole language of them.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-18 20:41:50  
Prong said: »
My mother has a friend she used to work with who's daughter works at a nursing home. Their 93 year old relative just passed in that nursing home last week of Alzheimer's complications. They marked her Death Cert as "Covid 19 related" even though she did not have Covid, at all.

They questioned the home about this and supposedly, they receive a $1,300 "bonus" from Medicare if they mark them as a Covid death and the home asked the family, "So, do you mind if we leave it that way?" The family of course refused.

Now I know this is a he said, she said, second hand source thing, so, I did a small (5 mins) amount of research to see if this is even in the realm of possibilities, as it sounded too easy to be true to me. I came across this...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

Sounds like I answered my own question the other day when I asked, "Now why would they test for Covid and list them as a Covid death if they had something obvious like physical trauma?"
Quote:
... and on ventilators
They at least have to have a ventilator around somewhere. I am open to the possibility that some facilities might try to pass a shop vac off as a ventilator.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-18 20:55:54  
Drama Torama said: »
Got it in one! Being serious for a moment: do you think that matters? If you drop an n-bomb on some white guy, do you think that context is in any way relevant to whether or not it's a slur?
I don't see that those are the same degree of insult, but to each his own.

I learned something new, so I'll try not to use it.

Drama Torama said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
In his defense, the R-word has been dropped a number of times in here without obvious enforcement. Not that anyone expects the mods to catch everything, but that's just how things have gone.

Fair enough. Please report it if you see it. If I have to get out the text replacer, no one is going to enjoy what I do with it.

Do, it, I dare you!

Replace it with "circleknockers" and watch the hilarity ensue.
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By Terlet Sangria 2020-07-18 21:00:30  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Do, it, I dare you!

Nah. Using it as a joke is just as bad as using it as an insult.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-18 21:03:26  
Terlet Sangria said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Do, it, I dare you!

Nah. Using it as a joke is just as bad as using it as an insult.
Like idiot boy?
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By Drama Torama 2020-07-18 21:08:07  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Terlet Sangria said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Do, it, I dare you!

Nah. Using it as a joke is just as bad as using it as an insult.
Like idiot boy?

If idiot referred to a specific class of condition, sure. Last I checked, it's used to mean an otherwise normal person doing something unwise, though, which falls in the "personal choices" bucket and not the "genetic/developmental problem outside of one's control" bucket.

But sure, pick fights with me, it's real popular today.
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By Prong 2020-07-18 21:12:19  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Prong said: »
My mother has a friend she used to work with who's daughter works at a nursing home. Their 93 year old relative just passed in that nursing home last week of Alzheimer's complications. They marked her Death Cert as "Covid 19 related" even though she did not have Covid, at all.

They questioned the home about this and supposedly, they receive a $1,300 "bonus" from Medicare if they mark them as a Covid death and the home asked the family, "So, do you mind if we leave it that way?" The family of course refused.

Now I know this is a he said, she said, second hand source thing, so, I did a small (5 mins) amount of research to see if this is even in the realm of possibilities, as it sounded too easy to be true to me. I came across this...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

Sounds like I answered my own question the other day when I asked, "Now why would they test for Covid and list them as a Covid death if they had something obvious like physical trauma?"
Quote:
... and on ventilators
They at least have to have a ventilator around somewhere. I am open to the possibility that some facilities might try to pass a shop vac off as a ventilator.

Jensen said, "Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for – if they're Medicare – typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."

"USA TODAY reached out to Marty Makary, a surgeon and professor of health policy and management at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, about the claim. Makary said in an email April 21 that "what Scott Jensen said sounds right to me.""
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By Rooks 2020-07-18 21:12:25  
I've just permabanned Hideka for not taking a *** hint. Maybe I'll undo that? Maybe I won't. But I have had a LOT of aggro right wingers in my PMs today and I am *** done.

The next one of you that lips off about anything gets the same treatment.

I get accused all the time of being harder on the righties than the lefties. Want to know why it looks that way? Because when the lefties get a suspension, they take their lump and come back in a week/whatever. Not y'all. It's always got to be a fight. I'm sick of it.

It's absolutely by the book from now on. Better mind your manners!
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By Prong 2020-07-18 21:14:32  
Viciouss said: »
The R word was unofficially outlawed a while back.


Republican?
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By Viciouss 2020-07-18 21:24:14  
Prong said: »
Viciouss said: »
The R word was unofficially outlawed a while back.


Republican?

NO PRONG. NO.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-18 21:45:48  
Drama Torama said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Terlet Sangria said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Do, it, I dare you!

Nah. Using it as a joke is just as bad as using it as an insult.
Like idiot boy?

If idiot referred to a specific class of condition, sure. Last I checked, it's used to mean an otherwise normal person doing something unwise, though, which falls in the "personal choices" bucket and not the "genetic/developmental problem outside of one's control" bucket.

But sure, pick fights with me, it's real popular today.
I was referring to when you altered the translator from "Rooks" to "idiot boy".

It wasn't meant to pick a fight with you, just a fun callback.
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By Asura.Saevel 2020-07-19 10:21:50  
Prong said: »
My mother has a friend she used to work with who's daughter works at a nursing home. Their 93 year old relative just passed in that nursing home last week of Alzheimer's complications. They marked her Death Cert as "Covid 19 related" even though she did not have Covid, at all.

They questioned the home about this and supposedly, they receive a $1,300 "bonus" from Medicare if they mark them as a Covid death and the home asked the family, "So, do you mind if we leave it that way?" The family of course refused.

Now I know this is a he said, she said, second hand source thing, so, I did a small (5 mins) amount of research to see if this is even in the realm of possibilities, as it sounded too easy to be true to me. I came across this...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

Sounds like I answered my own question the other day when I asked, "Now why would they test for Covid and list them as a Covid death if they had something obvious like physical trauma?"

This isn't just for COVID, it's like that for all medicare related charges.

Want to know why "medical expenses" are stupendously high in the USA? One word, Medicare. Specifically the way it pays out encourages overcharging things as much as possible. Private insurance companies keep their own index of "reasonable charges" and use that instead of whats on the bill. A provider puts in $5000 USD on a charge, our insurance company says "we'll pay $2000 for that" and we get an Explanation Of Benefits that lists all the charges and that we might be responsible for the remaining $3,000. Nearly gave my wife a heart attack the first few times we received one of those. Not once has any provider billed me for the unpaid amount, not once. In theory I'm supposed to have this huge pile of medical debt, yet it's really just a fiction.

Everyone in the industry is feeding at the $591 billion USD trough that is Medicare. In contrast those Evil Military Industrial Complex Overlords are feeding at the $351 billion USD trough that is defense contracting for services and acquisition.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-19 10:56:45  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Want to know why "medical expenses" are stupendously high in the USA? One word, Medicare.
Not exactly true.

Medicaid also plays a significant part of it. Also laws that basically treat hospitals as unpaid doctor's offices have a significant roll in it.

Not saying we should abolish the laws in place, but at least let's be real, people going to hospitals fro minor treatments and not paying their bills forces those who do pay to pay for them, also forces the governments (local, state, and federal) to foot the bill too.
By volkom 2020-07-19 15:30:55  
another banger

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By Viciouss 2020-07-19 15:37:50  
I saw Fauci was living in the here and now and saying how NY has had success flattening the curve while other states are completely failing at it. Figured that would stir the pot.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-19 15:46:34  
volkom, you keep convincing me that Timcast is infowars lite.
By volkom 2020-07-19 15:55:29  
ever watch one of his videos?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-19 16:40:22  
He may be the liberal's hero today, but tomorrow he will be their worst enemy.

That's how they are. Remember Comey?
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-19 20:09:18  
volkom said: »
ever watch one of his videos?
I don't watch ANY videos.

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
He may be the liberal's hero today, but tomorrow he will be their worst enemy.

That's how they are. Remember Comey?
Did you forget that Comey was a republican and an example of Obama's reaching across the isle.

That didn't really work out well did it?
By volkom 2020-07-19 20:10:11  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
volkom said: »
ever watch one of his videos?
I don't watch ANY videos.

watch some of his content. Might appreciate some of it
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-19 20:12:57  
Not a political statement in any way, no one should be watching podcasts. The *** do you want to sit there and listen to someone talk for hours and hours. About anything ffs.

(I know the answer) But seriously.
By volkom 2020-07-19 20:13:59  
why would someone spend hours and hours reading news articles or anything else?
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By Viciouss 2020-07-19 20:21:27  
volkom said: »
why would someone spend hours and hours reading news articles or anything else?

It takes a few minutes at most to read an article.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-19 20:21:46  
volkom said: »
why would someone spend hours and hours reading news articles or anything else?
I enjoy reading and the information flow is quicker than listening.

I do not enjoy passively watching. Perhaps the odd movie but I have to hide the remote from the roomie.

I can filter the signal to noise ratio when I read, I can't while watching.
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By Prong 2020-07-19 23:49:18  
"Hillsdale College holds in-person commencement, defying Whitmer, AG"

Good. Until these Democratic governors/pundits stop making excuses for the risk that the BLM rioters are contributing to the spread of Covid 19, I see no reason why any other organization cannot hold their outdoor ceremonies. Since, you know, being outdoors makes things ok, right?

A person's possibly once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to attend their own college graduation is more important than people needing to tear down statues of some dude they most likely don't even know who he is or what he did.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/education/2020/07/18/hillsdale-college-holds-person-graduation-defying-whitmer-nessel/5465916002/
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By volkom 2020-07-19 23:58:13  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
volkom said: »
why would someone spend hours and hours reading news articles or anything else?
I enjoy reading and the information flow is quicker than listening.

I do not enjoy passively watching. Perhaps the odd movie but I have to hide the remote from the roomie.

I can filter the signal to noise ratio when I read, I can't while watching.

That's fair. As reasons mentioned in this thread and others, Tim Pool has some good content and hes pretty much up to the minute on latest news and verifys sources. Depending which series of vids you watch it's either his thoughts on a subject or a conversation with his group. Check it out if you can spare the time or interest
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-20 08:32:23  
With coronavirus antibodies fading fast, vaccine hopes fade, too
S F Chronicle

Quote:
Disturbing new revelations that permanent immunity to the coronavirus may not be possible have jeopardized vaccine development and reinforced a decision by scientists at UCSF and affiliated laboratories to focus exclusively on treatments.

Several recent studies conducted around the world indicate that the human body does not retain the antibodies that build up during infections, meaning there may be no lasting immunity to COVID-19 after people recover....

TLDR: We are ****ed. We are well, truly, and thoroughly ****ed.
By volkom 2020-07-20 09:21:46  
And its Trumps fault
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-07-20 09:48:18  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
With coronavirus antibodies fading fast, vaccine hopes fade, too
S F Chronicle

Quote:
Disturbing new revelations that permanent immunity to the coronavirus may not be possible have jeopardized vaccine development and reinforced a decision by scientists at UCSF and affiliated laboratories to focus exclusively on treatments.

Several recent studies conducted around the world indicate that the human body does not retain the antibodies that build up during infections, meaning there may be no lasting immunity to COVID-19 after people recover....

TLDR: We are ****ed. We are well, truly, and thoroughly ****ed.

It's a bit early to be jumping to conclusions. From an article just barely posted by The Atlantic:

Quote:
“To look at just one part of the immune response is woefully incomplete, especially if many COVID patients rely more on T cells,” said Eric Topol, a cardiologist and the founder and director of the Scripps Research facility. He pointed me to a study from France’s Strasbourg University Hospital, which found that some people recovering from COVID-19 showed strong T-cell responses without detectable antibodies. “There is a chance that if a similar longitudinal study looked at T-cell response, the outcome would be far more optimistic,” he said.

Second, the virologist Shane Crotty told me that while the decline in antibodies was troubling, it was hardly catastrophic. “It’s not unusual to have fading antibody response after several months,” he said. “The drop-off isn’t that surprising. When you look at something like the smallpox vaccine, you see the antibody response is down about 75 percent after six months. But that’s a vaccine that works for decades. We need a study like this to look at COVID patients six months after infection to really know what we’re dealing with.” It’s been six months since the first American COVID-19 patient went to the hospital. Those studies will surely come.

Third, low levels of antibodies can still be enough to knock out COVID-19, because they can prime a larger immune response some time later. “It’s possible that previously-infected people could utilize [immunological memory] responses to produce new antibodies in case they are exposed to SARS-CoV-2 again,” Pamela Bjorkman, a biochemist at the California Institute of Technology, wrote in an email. “So I would not conclude yet that people infected with SARS-CoV-2 are not protected from another infection.”
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 Carbuncle.Skulloneix
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By Carbuncle.Skulloneix 2020-07-20 15:09:17  
volkom said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
volkom said: »
ever watch one of his videos?
I don't watch ANY videos.

watch some of his content. Might appreciate some of it
Will agree. He is NOT a right winger by any sense.

I will listen to his videos while driving or while building furniture. I don't like videos much either Chanti. I feel ya.
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