There are a number of problems with using this strategy:
-Trib dies in 30 seconds with proper DD on him, Mboze takes 10 minutes
-Mboze has 2 Invincibles
-Mboze has 2 adds
-Mboze gets regen from his adds
-Mboze wipes all debuffs off his adds if he uses his fetter move
-Mboze gets auras which can tank your damage or survivability
I'm not positive, but I think Mboze would use his TP moves even if his target is outside of range, since they're AoE. He will definitely continue to auto-attack even when his target is out of range.
Try it out and let us know what your results are, but I think the combination of all of the above will totally squash any attempts to kite and kill Mboze. I don't think subjobs are much, if any, of a factor in the difference between Trib & Mboze
The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
Yup I just did a fast one with trusts and he used moves even when I was between 24 and 30 yalms. He couldn't auto attack but he put his aura up after trusts slapped him enough.
So at best you can lower the amount of tp he generates from his own auto attacks, but you're still going to have to deny TP if you want to avoid moves.
So at best you can lower the amount of tp he generates from his own auto attacks, but you're still going to have to deny TP if you want to avoid moves.
Question about Ngai V25 and Tidal Guillotine.
I recall Tidal Guillotine in this version has a convoluted check.
It deals damage and a final number is calculated according to the stats on the player who receives damage. I assume stuff like DT and either DEF or MDB/Meva (see below) work for this calculation to generate a final "number" of damage the player is supposed to receive from this attack.
If this number is >50% of your health (Max HP I suppose?) then it instant kills you.
If it's <50% HP instead you will just receive the damage and that's it.
Thing is... is this physical or magical (water based)?
Because if it's magical then Meva, Water+ and MDB should help.
If it's physical on the other hand you want DEF to reduce damage and keep it under 50% HP.
Furthermore, do we know if Scherzo works and, hence, helps keeping the damage under 50% or if it's completely useless?
I recall Tidal Guillotine in this version has a convoluted check.
It deals damage and a final number is calculated according to the stats on the player who receives damage. I assume stuff like DT and either DEF or MDB/Meva (see below) work for this calculation to generate a final "number" of damage the player is supposed to receive from this attack.
If this number is >50% of your health (Max HP I suppose?) then it instant kills you.
If it's <50% HP instead you will just receive the damage and that's it.
Thing is... is this physical or magical (water based)?
Because if it's magical then Meva, Water+ and MDB should help.
If it's physical on the other hand you want DEF to reduce damage and keep it under 50% HP.
Furthermore, do we know if Scherzo works and, hence, helps keeping the damage under 50% or if it's completely useless?
Has anyone successfully soloed aurum strongboxes for moogle mastery level ups?
THF tools strat doesn't seem to pay off at all in that regard. My Izzat cost for regular boxes have been capped at 5 for a while now but iirc I barely opened 15-25 coffers and only ever succesfully opened 1 aurum strongbox in A and B sofar.
With coffers still costing around 12-13 izzat and aurums stagnating at 20 the only way I see to speed it up a little is opening boxes and coffers with THF tools, praying for no mimics and 2 upgrades to aurum very early in the run to then still have enough time to clear 2 halos?
Either way there seem to be so many levels of rng in their that I'll be busy till the servers shut down.
THF tools strat doesn't seem to pay off at all in that regard. My Izzat cost for regular boxes have been capped at 5 for a while now but iirc I barely opened 15-25 coffers and only ever succesfully opened 1 aurum strongbox in A and B sofar.
With coffers still costing around 12-13 izzat and aurums stagnating at 20 the only way I see to speed it up a little is opening boxes and coffers with THF tools, praying for no mimics and 2 upgrades to aurum very early in the run to then still have enough time to clear 2 halos?
Either way there seem to be so many levels of rng in their that I'll be busy till the servers shut down.
Shichishito said: »
Has anyone successfully soloed aurum strongboxes for moogle mastery level ups?
THF tools strat doesn't seem to pay off at all in that regard. My Izzat cost for regular boxes have been capped at 5 for a while now but iirc I barely opened 15-25 coffers and only ever succesfully opened 1 aurum strongbox in A and B sofar.
With coffers still costing around 12-13 izzat and aurums stagnating at 20 the only way I see to speed it up a little is opening boxes and coffers with THF tools, praying for no mimics and 2 upgrades to aurum very early in the run to then still have enough time to clear 2 halos?
Either way there seem to be so many levels of rng in their that I'll be busy till the servers shut down.
THF tools strat doesn't seem to pay off at all in that regard. My Izzat cost for regular boxes have been capped at 5 for a while now but iirc I barely opened 15-25 coffers and only ever succesfully opened 1 aurum strongbox in A and B sofar.
With coffers still costing around 12-13 izzat and aurums stagnating at 20 the only way I see to speed it up a little is opening boxes and coffers with THF tools, praying for no mimics and 2 upgrades to aurum very early in the run to then still have enough time to clear 2 halos?
Either way there seem to be so many levels of rng in their that I'll be busy till the servers shut down.
I did my MM using THF. I'd upgrade Chest with Izzat then key the coffers and sometimes get lucky with Aurum. As the cost of Coffers comes down you can Izzat the coffers as well which makes Aurums pretty common.
Ideally you bring a friend/mule that can raise and tractor.
[+]
Asura.Sechs said: »
Question about Ngai V25 and Tidal Guillotine.
I recall Tidal Guillotine in this version has a convoluted check.
It deals damage and a final number is calculated according to the stats on the player who receives damage. I assume stuff like DT and either DEF or MDB/Meva (see below) work for this calculation to generate a final "number" of damage the player is supposed to receive from this attack.
If this number is >50% of your health (Max HP I suppose?) then it instant kills you.
If it's <50% HP instead you will just receive the damage and that's it.
Thing is... is this physical or magical (water based)?
Because if it's magical then Meva, Water+ and MDB should help.
If it's physical on the other hand you want DEF to reduce damage and keep it under 50% HP.
Furthermore, do we know if Scherzo works and, hence, helps keeping the damage under 50% or if it's completely useless?
I recall Tidal Guillotine in this version has a convoluted check.
It deals damage and a final number is calculated according to the stats on the player who receives damage. I assume stuff like DT and either DEF or MDB/Meva (see below) work for this calculation to generate a final "number" of damage the player is supposed to receive from this attack.
If this number is >50% of your health (Max HP I suppose?) then it instant kills you.
If it's <50% HP instead you will just receive the damage and that's it.
Thing is... is this physical or magical (water based)?
Because if it's magical then Meva, Water+ and MDB should help.
If it's physical on the other hand you want DEF to reduce damage and keep it under 50% HP.
Furthermore, do we know if Scherzo works and, hence, helps keeping the damage under 50% or if it's completely useless?
It's magical, and I believe the mechanic is if it does >50% max HP it procs death, saw someone mention they saw a death resist proc off a high guillotine hit.
Scherzo should save you if the hit does between 75% and ~106% of your HP... 75% is the min threshold for scherzo to proc and anything over 106% will still do >50% even after scherzo reduction. (And scherzo won't help between 50-75%)
We wound up doing carol/carol2/scherzo entrust fend entrust attunement cause damage is nasty. proc ASAP or fetters will mess you up.
I did some short testing and it seems that after the first time you use a WS on v25 that ws will be nerfed by at least 10%. Also magic ws might not unwall phy ws. More testing is needed for sure... but this would be why our dmg feels so bad v25.
Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
I did some short testing and it seems that after the first time you use a WS on v25 that ws will be nerfed by at least 10%. Also magic ws might not unwall phy ws. More testing is needed for sure... but this would be why our dmg feels so bad v25.
V25 has afaik the same WS wall as Sortie basement bosses, which should be:
-10%
-25%
-40%
-60%
-85%
If you alternate ws it keeps dmg nerfed the same amount but it seems to get stuck at -10% even with multple ws in between is what Im saying.
Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
If you alternate ws it keeps dmg nerfed the same amount but it seems to get stuck at -10% even with multple ws in between is what Im saying.
Maybe they *** up something with WS wall code and it's stuck at -10% as default
That being said, to confirm such theory, you would need to take RNG and cap ratt on WS set (Detonator is easiest, since it has massive attack bonus) and test with that, because at the attack cap, ranged damage has no randomizers, so damage is always the same. You would notice -10% damage drop without any doubts.
yes I was doing coro / slug on the acuex v25 for the short testing. Wildfire wasn't helping ws wall at all for coro. Also when I did coro (nerfed 75%) > last stand > slug shot > coro (did 75% still). Something weird is going maybe I'll mess around with it some more later to figure what is going on.
Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
yes I was doing coro / slug on the acuex v25 for the short testing. Wildfire wasn't helping ws wall at all for coro. Also when I did coro (nerfed 75%) > last stand > slug shot > coro (did 75% still). Something weird is going maybe I'll mess around with it some more later to figure what is going on.
Looks more like an issue with resetting WS wall then. I wonder what's going on there.
Shichishito said: »
Has anyone successfully soloed aurum strongboxes for moogle mastery level ups?
THF tools strat doesn't seem to pay off at all in that regard. My Izzat cost for regular boxes have been capped at 5 for a while now but iirc I barely opened 15-25 coffers and only ever succesfully opened 1 aurum strongbox in A and B sofar.
With coffers still costing around 12-13 izzat and aurums stagnating at 20 the only way I see to speed it up a little is opening boxes and coffers with THF tools, praying for no mimics and 2 upgrades to aurum very early in the run to then still have enough time to clear 2 halos?
Either way there seem to be so many levels of rng in their that I'll be busy till the servers shut down.
THF tools strat doesn't seem to pay off at all in that regard. My Izzat cost for regular boxes have been capped at 5 for a while now but iirc I barely opened 15-25 coffers and only ever succesfully opened 1 aurum strongbox in A and B sofar.
With coffers still costing around 12-13 izzat and aurums stagnating at 20 the only way I see to speed it up a little is opening boxes and coffers with THF tools, praying for no mimics and 2 upgrades to aurum very early in the run to then still have enough time to clear 2 halos?
Either way there seem to be so many levels of rng in their that I'll be busy till the servers shut down.
Yes, you will need to first key chests and coffers to cap reduction in a given sheol. I assume you have already, 5 for chests and 13 for coffers then you change strategy. Kill the 1st floor agon camp and surrounding mobs for 12 izzat, kill 5 or all 10 mobs in a 2nd camp to get to 13 or 14 izzat.
Open a chest with izzat for a high chance at a coffer then izzat open a coffer for a 20% ish chance at a aurum spawning, key with skeleton keys as you want the lowest chance of a mimic. Repeat for weeks until you hit 16.
Quote:
yes I was doing coro / slug on the acuex v25 for the short testing. Wildfire wasn't helping ws wall at all for coro. Also when I did coro (nerfed 75%) > last stand > slug shot > coro (did 75% still). Something weird is going maybe I'll mess around with it some more later to figure what is going on.
Looks more like an issue with resetting WS wall then. I wonder what's going on there.
Looks more like an issue with resetting WS wall then. I wonder what's going on there.
Don't forget that for each vengence level the NM's get a flat 1% DT in addition to their stat increases. On vengence 5 nms have 5% DT. On V10 they have 10% DT, etc etc. This is in addition to the weaponskill wall, which is factored in separately. Part of the reason damage is so low on V25 is because the mobs have high defense, part of it is because they have 25% innate DT, and part of it is the weaponskill wall.
[+]
Asura.Melliny said: »
Quote:
yes I was doing coro / slug on the acuex v25 for the short testing. Wildfire wasn't helping ws wall at all for coro. Also when I did coro (nerfed 75%) > last stand > slug shot > coro (did 75% still). Something weird is going maybe I'll mess around with it some more later to figure what is going on.
Looks more like an issue with resetting WS wall then. I wonder what's going on there.
Looks more like an issue with resetting WS wall then. I wonder what's going on there.
Don't forget that for each vengence level the NM's get a flat 1% DT in addition to their stat increases. On vengence 5 nms have 5% DT. On V10 they have 10% DT, etc etc. This is in addition to the weaponskill wall, which is factored in separately. Part of the reason damage is so low on V25 is because the mobs have high defense, part of it is because they have 25% innate DT, and part of it is the weaponskill wall.
It depends on the mob. If you're fighting U'bnai then yeah, he shouldn't have too much defense. The tier 3's are higher though, particularly the lion.
[+]
Asura.Melliny said: »
It depends on the mob. If you're fighting U'bnai then yeah, he shouldn't have too much defense. The tier 3's are higher though, particularly the lion.
Quote:
yes I was doing coro / slug on the acuex v25 for the short testing. Wildfire wasn't helping ws wall at all for coro. Also when I did coro (nerfed 75%) > last stand > slug shot > coro (did 75% still). Something weird is going maybe I'll mess around with it some more later to figure what is going on.
I used to have this same exact issue on sortie basement bosses, I say used to since I just no longer do sortie not because it went away.
When my cor and brd would wall savage blades it would never reset, it just wouldn't diminish further if they didn't overlap again.
I just always assumed there was more to it.
Think this comes back to things not being thoroughly tested any more, it's not like SE outright stated how WS wall is supposed to work(as far as I know). I'm glad to see people looking further into it.
[+]
Asura.Sechs said: »
Question about Ngai V25 and Tidal Guillotine.
I recall Tidal Guillotine in this version has a convoluted check.
It deals damage and a final number is calculated according to the stats on the player who receives damage. I assume stuff like DT and either DEF or MDB/Meva (see below) work for this calculation to generate a final "number" of damage the player is supposed to receive from this attack.
If this number is >50% of your health (Max HP I suppose?) then it instant kills you.
If it's <50% HP instead you will just receive the damage and that's it.
Thing is... is this physical or magical (water based)?
Because if it's magical then Meva, Water+ and MDB should help.
If it's physical on the other hand you want DEF to reduce damage and keep it under 50% HP.
Furthermore, do we know if Scherzo works and, hence, helps keeping the damage under 50% or if it's completely useless?
I recall Tidal Guillotine in this version has a convoluted check.
It deals damage and a final number is calculated according to the stats on the player who receives damage. I assume stuff like DT and either DEF or MDB/Meva (see below) work for this calculation to generate a final "number" of damage the player is supposed to receive from this attack.
If this number is >50% of your health (Max HP I suppose?) then it instant kills you.
If it's <50% HP instead you will just receive the damage and that's it.
Thing is... is this physical or magical (water based)?
Because if it's magical then Meva, Water+ and MDB should help.
If it's physical on the other hand you want DEF to reduce damage and keep it under 50% HP.
Furthermore, do we know if Scherzo works and, hence, helps keeping the damage under 50% or if it's completely useless?
Both Tidal and Puncture are water based and can be reduced with DT/MDT/Scherzo. Afaik M.eva/MDB don't affect it, hard to tell in V20+
I've had protolithic puncture kill me even with capped dt and scherzo, sometimes it seems to do way more dmg for no reason
[+]
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Both Tidal and Puncture are water based and can be reduced with DT/MDT/Scherzo. Afaik M.eva/MDB don't affect it, hard to tell in V20+
Ehh MDB absolutely effects Tidal Guillotine and gearing around it is one of the ways to ensure it never kills you. Puncture is a normally a throat stab move but it interacts weirdly with the Vengeance buff and is definitely over 100% base HP reduction.
Asura.Sechs said: »
Question about Ngai V25 and Tidal Guillotine.
I recall Tidal Guillotine in this version has a convoluted check.
It deals damage and a final number is calculated according to the stats on the player who receives damage. I assume stuff like DT and either DEF or MDB/Meva (see below) work for this calculation to generate a final "number" of damage the player is supposed to receive from this attack.
If this number is >50% of your health (Max HP I suppose?) then it instant kills you.
If it's <50% HP instead you will just receive the damage and that's it.
Thing is... is this physical or magical (water based)?
Because if it's magical then Meva, Water+ and MDB should help.
If it's physical on the other hand you want DEF to reduce damage and keep it under 50% HP.
Furthermore, do we know if Scherzo works and, hence, helps keeping the damage under 50% or if it's completely useless?
I recall Tidal Guillotine in this version has a convoluted check.
It deals damage and a final number is calculated according to the stats on the player who receives damage. I assume stuff like DT and either DEF or MDB/Meva (see below) work for this calculation to generate a final "number" of damage the player is supposed to receive from this attack.
If this number is >50% of your health (Max HP I suppose?) then it instant kills you.
If it's <50% HP instead you will just receive the damage and that's it.
Thing is... is this physical or magical (water based)?
Because if it's magical then Meva, Water+ and MDB should help.
If it's physical on the other hand you want DEF to reduce damage and keep it under 50% HP.
Furthermore, do we know if Scherzo works and, hence, helps keeping the damage under 50% or if it's completely useless?
I apologize for not checking earlier. Tidal Guillotine is not hard to understand but gets misunderstood. It's basically Tyrant Tusk but for water and without the bio. When the Shark (any of them) use's it, it calculates a water magic attack worth of damage. All the normal MDB / MEVA checks apply that would for every other attack. At the very end, if the damage would of reduced your HP to less then 50% of your maximum HP, your dead.
Ex: Tony the Tiger has 3000/3000 HP when he gets hit with Guillotine. After all the damage calculations tony would of taken 1000 damage, he now has 2000/3000 HP. If instead he would of taken 1500 damage, then instead of 1500/3000 it would just kill him.
In this fight two issues arise, first is that we become more worried about maximum tidal damage instead of average tidal damage, reducing the maximum damage keeps Tony safe, thus Tony wears gear with MDB on it. Second because maximum HP comes into play and Ngai has a max HP down move, Tony needs to be extremely careful on removing that effect because if his max HP jumps up right before Tidal, it can kill him.
Scherzo really doesn't come into play here as the attacks death effect is before it actually deals damage. Scherzo is there to protect from Puncture and it works unless someone has something dispelled or they aren't in full DT when it goes off.
[+]
Yes because I had a discussion with a guy the other day who claimed the attack was physical and hence you needed a lot of Def.
To me it felt like a magical damage, so ideally lotsa MDB would've helped, in addition to stuff that boosts your HP of course, for the mentioned reasons.
And yes, the way you described is pretty much the way I was imagining it works, reason why it felt to me Scherzo would've been uneffective.
To me it felt like a magical damage, so ideally lotsa MDB would've helped, in addition to stuff that boosts your HP of course, for the mentioned reasons.
And yes, the way you described is pretty much the way I was imagining it works, reason why it felt to me Scherzo would've been uneffective.
Asura.Sechs said: »
Yes because I had a discussion with a guy the other day who claimed the attack was physical and hence you needed a lot of Def.
To me it felt like a magical damage, so ideally lotsa MDB would've helped, in addition to stuff that boosts your HP of course, for the mentioned reasons.
And yes, the way you described is pretty much the way I was imagining it works, reason why it felt to me Scherzo would've been uneffective.
To me it felt like a magical damage, so ideally lotsa MDB would've helped, in addition to stuff that boosts your HP of course, for the mentioned reasons.
And yes, the way you described is pretty much the way I was imagining it works, reason why it felt to me Scherzo would've been uneffective.
That attack is 100% magical, some of the Sharks regular attacks are physical. You need both Physical Defense and Magic Defense in these fights. The shark will hit you with a regular attack then a few seconds later Tidal. Be very careful about fluctuating your maximum HP, that'll get you killed. If your WS set has 2300 but your TP set has 3000, then your likely to die if Ngai does Tidal right after you WS.
Our MNK had a nasty habit of dieing while trying to optimize his DPS. Eventually he got tired of it and locked in a single set that made him pretty much unkillable.
Code
sets.engaged = {
ammo="Staunch Tathlum +1",
head={ name="Mpaca's Cap", augments={'Path: A',}},
body="Mpaca's Doublet",
hands={ name="Mpaca's Gloves", augments={'Path: A',}},
legs="Bhikku Hose +3",
feet="Mpaca's Boots",
neck="Warder's Charm +1",
waist="Moonbow Belt +1",
left_ear="Odnowa Earring +1",
right_ear={ name="Schere Earring", augments={'Path: A',}},
right_ring="Defending Ring",
left_ring="Shadow Ring",
back={ name="Segomo's Mantle", augments={'DEX+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','Accuracy+10','"Dbl.Atk."+10','Damage taken-5%',}},
}Buffs were
Water Carol II
Scherzo
Honor March
Victory March
Minuet V
Samurai's Roll
Chaos Roll
Indi-Barrier
Geo-Fury
Protect V
Shell V
Barwatera (4/5 WHM Empy)
Auspice
There is plenty of time to kill Ngai, the real challenge is to not die.
[+]
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I've had protolithic puncture kill me even with capped dt and scherzo, sometimes it seems to do way more dmg for no reason
Agreed. killed me with 3300+ HP on Monk only once, was completely topped off could never figure out why. Whm checked my set and I WAS in defensive gear. Ran same standard buffs as everyone else. Idk, maybe aura gives it a weather buff or something and it can proc occasionally? Just another super duper unlucky random hit.
Edit: I suppose saevel's scenario of dropping HP quickly in WS is possible, though I did adjust that set too Soo it was tankier (didn't actually check HP though so that could have been it)
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I've had protolithic puncture kill me even with capped dt and scherzo, sometimes it seems to do way more dmg for no reason
Agreed. killed me with 3300+ HP on Monk only once, was completely topped off could never figure out why. Whm checked my set and I WAS in defensive gear. Ran same standard buffs as everyone else. Idk, maybe aura gives it a weather buff or something and it can proc occasionally? Just another super duper unlucky random hit.
Edit: I suppose saevel's scenario of dropping HP quickly in WS is possible, though I did adjust that set too Soo it was tankier (didn't actually check HP though so that could have been it)
We talking Puncture or Tidal? They are very different moves, Tidal will just have you drop dead while Puncture does something like 3000~4000 damage.
Shadow Ring is particularly appealing vs Tidal Guillotine, since it can nullify the damage or actually resist the death effect.
Amusingly, resisting the death effect makes it 'miss'.13% null chance, and 25% chance to just not die anyway. Pretty good.
Also, it can be absorbed.But the proc rate on absorb items tends to only be 5%, and don't stack. Still, another layer of defense if you can work it in.
Amusingly, resisting the death effect makes it 'miss'.
Code
[00:10:58]Ngai uses Tidal Guillotine, but misses Martel.
Also, it can be absorbed.
Code
[22:18:57]Ngai uses Tidal Guillotine.Arduwyn recovers 49 HP.
[+]
For Ngai setup Monk war brd cor geo whm and we had everyone spamming WS except WHM. Secret sauce is tomahawk so cor can savage (also lowers dt some for blunt as well), geo should spam exudation, bard spam shell crusher with max macc, war spams judgment, monk mostly howling (can tornado kick with footwork). When ngai goes in fetter mode pop SP 2 on monk.
Songs water carol II scherzo honor 2x minuets on monk / war and rest get a minne + whm got a ballad.
Geo Fury indi barrier entrust haste (entrust can be kept up fulltime with resets).
Use randoms / wildcard to keep warcry tomahawk uptime as high as possible. When second add came out bard pops nitro and elegys both.
Shellcrusher is very hard to land so bard had to spam it all the time (I did see it drop in log so it landed at some point).
Short fight made the fight a lot more manageable just keep in mind the DDs might get 1 shot just reset and try again. It seemed to help when my monk swapped to 50 actual DT rather then ~30% with max PDT / MDT. Cor / geo / whm used high defensive food while bard used macc and monk / war I forget food
Songs water carol II scherzo honor 2x minuets on monk / war and rest get a minne + whm got a ballad.
Geo Fury indi barrier entrust haste (entrust can be kept up fulltime with resets).
Use randoms / wildcard to keep warcry tomahawk uptime as high as possible. When second add came out bard pops nitro and elegys both.
Shellcrusher is very hard to land so bard had to spam it all the time (I did see it drop in log so it landed at some point).
Short fight made the fight a lot more manageable just keep in mind the DDs might get 1 shot just reset and try again. It seemed to help when my monk swapped to 50 actual DT rather then ~30% with max PDT / MDT. Cor / geo / whm used high defensive food while bard used macc and monk / war I forget food
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