May I ask what setup you guys used for V20 Ongo?
Sounds like a single SC+MB Geohelix2 won't be enough. Even if you're lucky enough to hit for 9999 (and without Empy+3 feet I really doubt you can) that's gonna be approximately ~160k damage, which is less than 6% of Ongo's health at V20, right?
So you basically do that, die, reraise and do another Helix?
Because surely your trusts won't survive long enough for the first helix to expire.
The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
Asura.Sechs said: »
May I ask what setup you guys used for V20 Ongo?
Sounds like a single SC+MB Geohelix2 won't be enough. Even if you're lucky enough to hit for 9999 (and without Empy+3 feet I really doubt you can) that's gonna be approximately ~160k damage, which is less than 6% of Ongo's health at V20, right?
So you basically do that, die, reraise and do another Helix?
Because surely your trusts won't survive long enough for the first helix to expire.
Sounds like a single SC+MB Geohelix2 won't be enough. Even if you're lucky enough to hit for 9999 (and without Empy+3 feet I really doubt you can) that's gonna be approximately ~160k damage, which is less than 6% of Ongo's health at V20, right?
So you basically do that, die, reraise and do another Helix?
Because surely your trusts won't survive long enough for the first helix to expire.
Bis SCH has way more than 16 tics helix, but you might not be able to hit for 9999k. That being said my trusts would maybe even survive whole 15 minutes with embrava + Regen V, but my trusts are mm45. They normally survive all other A3 for several minutes and would probably never die until boss do tp move that starts fetters. Even then they sometimes last for few more minutes if I don't hit the boss and don't spawn fetters too fast. With SCH tp moves would be super rare and they have Regen on top of that, so they might be "immortal" in that setup.
I wasn't considering the JSE cape because on a target like Ongo and without buffs I'm afraid that would be too much of a loss.
But you're right I forgot to take into consideration the Dark Arts bonus to Helix. So that would be ~24 tocs for, I dunno, something around 240 seconds duration? Roughly a bit less than 4 minutes.
Tabula Rasa also enhances your Helixes so casting a scission SC and then quickly Focalization+Ebullience before shooting a Geohelix2... then maybe and just maybe you're gonna be able to hit for 6700 initial damage, and that should hopefully be enough to bring Ongo to 94%?
Tabula Rasa also grants a few more tocks if I recall. Supposing I'm right that would mean less damage needed for the initial hit.
But you're right I forgot to take into consideration the Dark Arts bonus to Helix. So that would be ~24 tocs for, I dunno, something around 240 seconds duration? Roughly a bit less than 4 minutes.
Tabula Rasa also enhances your Helixes so casting a scission SC and then quickly Focalization+Ebullience before shooting a Geohelix2... then maybe and just maybe you're gonna be able to hit for 6700 initial damage, and that should hopefully be enough to bring Ongo to 94%?
Tabula Rasa also grants a few more tocks if I recall. Supposing I'm right that would mean less damage needed for the initial hit.
Asura.Sechs said: »
I wasn't considering the JSE cape because on a target like Ongo and without buffs I'm afraid that would be too much of a loss.
But you're right I forgot to take into consideration the Dark Arts bonus to Helix. So that would be ~24 tocs for, I dunno, something around 240 seconds duration? Roughly a bit less than 4 minutes.
But you're right I forgot to take into consideration the Dark Arts bonus to Helix. So that would be ~24 tocs for, I dunno, something around 240 seconds duration? Roughly a bit less than 4 minutes.
There is also JSE neck
[+]
To Simon’s point, I think we used AAEV and Ygnas at MM45 vs Ongo and I swear Ongo couldn’t kill AAEV until like a really bad fetter spam several minutes into the fight. I know we’ve used Ygnas for some V20 RP farms line Xeviodi and she was unkillable as a healer, and Ongo isn’t really that threatening outside of aura imo. I think you’d be fine with SCH buffs regen and high mm
Alas my MM is very low. 21 iir and that's the same as 20 because the "potency" granted to trusts by MM goes up in tiers of 5, right?
That might still be enough for one good SC+Geohelix2 with Starsibyl, Cornelia (granting Mab and Macc) and a decent enough food giving me a bit of INT and Macc.
That might still be enough for one good SC+Geohelix2 with Starsibyl, Cornelia (granting Mab and Macc) and a decent enough food giving me a bit of INT and Macc.
1 month after the expected release date!
Bet we're all excited about having to handle TWO adds from 50% HP onwards.
On a serious note though, they mentioned that instead of "just" getting higher values of the currently available augments, we're gonna get a 4th one.
It's what SE said but in itself it doesn't mean much.
Will be be getting higher values AND a 4th augment or just the latter?
And which pieces will be getting a 4th? Because T1 and T2 stuff only have 2 augs atm. Will they be getting a third or nothing at all?
Lotsa questions but we're gonna find an answer soon thanks to datamine post patch.
Personally I hope they thought about making Odyssey "more accessible" up to V20, now that we're getting a higher level of challenge thanks to V25.
I'm not sure how they could achieve that, but I feel the content needs some sort of small catch-up mechanic.
They don't have to overdo it of course, but something is long due in my honest opinion.
Bet we're all excited about having to handle TWO adds from 50% HP onwards.
On a serious note though, they mentioned that instead of "just" getting higher values of the currently available augments, we're gonna get a 4th one.
It's what SE said but in itself it doesn't mean much.
Will be be getting higher values AND a 4th augment or just the latter?
And which pieces will be getting a 4th? Because T1 and T2 stuff only have 2 augs atm. Will they be getting a third or nothing at all?
Lotsa questions but we're gonna find an answer soon thanks to datamine post patch.
Personally I hope they thought about making Odyssey "more accessible" up to V20, now that we're getting a higher level of challenge thanks to V25.
I'm not sure how they could achieve that, but I feel the content needs some sort of small catch-up mechanic.
They don't have to overdo it of course, but something is long due in my honest opinion.
The catch up mechanic is that you can kill nms on vengeance zero and RP the gear straight to v 15. Also allowing you to get close to full kill value RP with a moogle amp. And also that if a friend takes you into a higher vengeance level than you can pop yourself and you get the kill it counts for full unlock credit. That’s actually three catch-up mechanics.
Asura.Melliny said: »
That’s actually three catch-up mechanics.
After all what you pointed out has been in-game since day-1 of the content release.
All MMOs progressively make older content somewhat easier once new content is released, either directly or indirectly.
And FFXI hasn't been much of an exception so far.
Granted you could argue something like this already happened in the form of somewhat noticeable power creep through new gear and ML50.
I still see lotsa players struggling getting V20 kills though. Which is no big deal when V20 is the "hardest" content, but that won't be the case any longer once V25 is released in a few days, which brings us back to my initial point.
Given the amount of complaints from the JP players as well, I guess that's not considered enough by the majority of the player base.
Making occasional campaigns to increase the amount of segments received (which is similar to what Kujah suggested) is a very interesting idea if you ask me.
Asura.Sechs said: »
By definition I wouldn't say that's what a "catch up" mechanic is intended when you see it mentioned in modern MMO games.
After all what you pointed out has been in-game since day-1 of the content release.
All MMOs progressively make older content somewhat easier once new content is released, either directly or indirectly.
And FFXI hasn't been much of an exception so far.
After all what you pointed out has been in-game since day-1 of the content release.
All MMOs progressively make older content somewhat easier once new content is released, either directly or indirectly.
And FFXI hasn't been much of an exception so far.
Amps weren't available upon release. Initial climb of V15 wasn't too hard either. Did a number of them with pugs when T3s were first released. It's even easier now.
The only fight that's really exceptionally hard at V20 for most people is Ongo and maybe Arebati. Between Empy +3 and MLs it's a lot easier to cobble together a group to take them down and hit the damage requirements. We're already well past in power creep compared to when V20s were first released.
The problem is that there isn't enough interest in Ody to begin with. At this stage the only people who are going to do V25s will be the people who did V20s when it was released. Most people either got their gear unlocks and checked out or leeched/paid/puged V15 clears and RP runs. I'd be shocked if there's even 500 characters across all servers that have the ability to enter V20 Bumba. Especially compared to how many actually have R25 Nyame.
No catchup mechanic outside completely changing the Vengeance climb or completely rebalancing/nerfing the fights will do anything and I don't see SE changing that.
[+]
True, I forgot Amplifiers (and the related "strategies") weren't available on day1. They got added pretty fast though.
You raised a valid point regardless, with the fact that aside from whining, a lot of people seems to simply not be interested in Odyssey at all.
Which is a shame.
And it's exactly one of the reasons why I thought that making pre-V25 Odyssey content somewhat (not noticeably!) more accessible could help in raising the interest but you're right that it wouldn't necessarily go that way.
I still think it's a shame and would love to see small changes here and there in the attempt to involve in the content (at least the old stuff) a larger number of people than the current numbers.
You raised a valid point regardless, with the fact that aside from whining, a lot of people seems to simply not be interested in Odyssey at all.
Which is a shame.
And it's exactly one of the reasons why I thought that making pre-V25 Odyssey content somewhat (not noticeably!) more accessible could help in raising the interest but you're right that it wouldn't necessarily go that way.
I still think it's a shame and would love to see small changes here and there in the attempt to involve in the content (at least the old stuff) a larger number of people than the current numbers.
Asura.Sechs said: »
And which pieces will be getting a 4th? Because T1 and T2 stuff only have 2 augs atm. Will they be getting a third or nothing at all?
[+]
Asura.Sechs said: »
with the fact that aside from whining, a lot of people seems to simply not be interested in Odyssey at all.
Which is a shame.
Which is a shame.
The effort for the reward is just too steep for a lot of people. There are also many players who would be interested that can't static or can't commit otherwise. That's just the nature of endgame. We still won't know til next month how involved the grind actually is.
Odyssey still has alternative content for players that aren't able to participate in segments and RP. It's still progression and/or gil so it's still relevant to everyone who enjoy either/both of those things. There isn't a massive gap in performance across most of the rest of the content in the game because it's dated.
I always found the entry requirements to be a bit much especially for a PUG player. For v0-15 I’d prefer if they lowered the 3000 cost or let me keep the KI unless we clear.
Taint said: »
I always found the entry requirements to be a bit much especially for a PUG player. For v0-15 I’d prefer if they lowered the 3000 cost or let me keep the KI unless we clear.
First of all they would need to redesign or fix amplifier to do that, because otherwise you could just do triple fights doing 5% damage over and over on V15 and cap everything not losing a single Segment.
Second of all, imagine the congestion if players could suddenly just try entering solo for free and keep failing over and over, while trying to kill some NMs using 3 fights + time in the lobby.
New theoretical RP farming values for various methods compared to the current caps
V25 x 3 charge > Amped V1 kill: 7020 (Currently 4260) per 13500 segments
V25 x 3 charge > Amped V5 6%: 7145 (Currently 4361) per 13500 segments
V25 x 3 charge > Amped V20 6%-kill: 8392+17~704 (Currently 5008+9~392) per 13500 segments
V25 x 3 using 1 Amp, 6% all NMs to charge: 9312 (Currently 5632) per 10500 segments
V25 x 3 using 3 Amps, 6% all NMs to charge & obtain RP on all NMs/same NM 3 times:9341 + 2357 +2357 (Currently 5649 + 1425 + 1425) per 13500 segments
V24 x 3 using 3 Amps, kill all NMs to charge & obtain RP on 3 NMs: 9540 + 3180 + 3180 (Currently 6336 + 2112 + 2112) per 13500 segments
Due to the presence of the add, I don't think there will be much people doing the last one compared to killing 3 V19s in 1 run.
V25 x 3 charge > Amped V1 kill: 7020 (Currently 4260) per 13500 segments
V25 x 3 charge > Amped V5 6%: 7145 (Currently 4361) per 13500 segments
V25 x 3 charge > Amped V20 6%-kill: 8392+17~704 (Currently 5008+9~392) per 13500 segments
V25 x 3 using 1 Amp, 6% all NMs to charge: 9312 (Currently 5632) per 10500 segments
V25 x 3 using 3 Amps, 6% all NMs to charge & obtain RP on all NMs/same NM 3 times:9341 + 2357 +2357 (Currently 5649 + 1425 + 1425) per 13500 segments
V24 x 3 using 3 Amps, kill all NMs to charge & obtain RP on 3 NMs: 9540 + 3180 + 3180 (Currently 6336 + 2112 + 2112) per 13500 segments
Due to the presence of the add, I don't think there will be much people doing the last one compared to killing 3 V19s in 1 run.
SimonSes said: »
Taint said: »
I always found the entry requirements to be a bit much especially for a PUG player. For v0-15 I’d prefer if they lowered the 3000 cost or let me keep the KI unless we clear.
First of all they would need to redesign or fix amplifier to do that, because otherwise you could just do triple fights doing 5% damage over and over on V15 and cap everything not losing a single Segment.
Second of all, imagine the congestion if players could suddenly just try entering solo for free and keep failing over and over, while trying to kill some NMs using 3 fights + time in the lobby.
Wouldn’t that be negated by losing the KI if you clear a fight?
Congestion comes with increased participation isn’t that what we want?
Taint said: »
Wouldn’t that be negated by losing the KI if you clear a fight?
Congestion comes with increased participation isn’t that what we want?
Congestion comes with increased participation isn’t that what we want?
Doing 6%HP to get Amplifier bonus wouldn't "clear" (kill NM) the fight right? So you could just abuse it and just keep doing this over and over.
You want increased participation for easier PUGs. You dont want tons of unprepared people to just keep trying it solo, because it's free. Spending most of the time inside waiting for weakness effect to wears off and blocking instance for an hour.
[+]
Guess it's a good thing emp armor wasn't late or anything oh wait... Well atleast soem of us got to enjoy +3 stuff I guess
[+]
Good God I don't wanna do Odyssea NM's anymore, not the stupid unlocks or RP farming. Be denied our subjob just makes the whole experience feel like puling my nails out with rusty pliars.
Ah yes time to delevel my ML
[+]
I'm just not wanting to deal with content that cheats. Sortie at least doesn't take away a fundamental aspect of game balance that's been around since release.
[+]
Oh god just realized, Bumba V25 will be effective impossible to beat with a sub 60s rage timer. People need to get extremely lucky to have a chance and hope it's crits and they proc it before 4K denounce.
Asura.Sechs said: »
1 month after the expected release date!
Bet we're all excited about having to handle TWO adds from 50% HP onwards.
On a serious note though, they mentioned that instead of "just" getting higher values of the currently available augments, we're gonna get a 4th one.
It's what SE said but in itself it doesn't mean much.
Will be be getting higher values AND a 4th augment or just the latter?
And which pieces will be getting a 4th? Because T1 and T2 stuff only have 2 augs atm. Will they be getting a third or nothing at all?
Lotsa questions but we're gonna find an answer soon thanks to datamine post patch.
Personally I hope they thought about making Odyssey "more accessible" up to V20, now that we're getting a higher level of challenge thanks to V25.
I'm not sure how they could achieve that, but I feel the content needs some sort of small catch-up mechanic.
They don't have to overdo it of course, but something is long due in my honest opinion.
Bet we're all excited about having to handle TWO adds from 50% HP onwards.
On a serious note though, they mentioned that instead of "just" getting higher values of the currently available augments, we're gonna get a 4th one.
It's what SE said but in itself it doesn't mean much.
Will be be getting higher values AND a 4th augment or just the latter?
And which pieces will be getting a 4th? Because T1 and T2 stuff only have 2 augs atm. Will they be getting a third or nothing at all?
Lotsa questions but we're gonna find an answer soon thanks to datamine post patch.
Personally I hope they thought about making Odyssey "more accessible" up to V20, now that we're getting a higher level of challenge thanks to V25.
I'm not sure how they could achieve that, but I feel the content needs some sort of small catch-up mechanic.
They don't have to overdo it of course, but something is long due in my honest opinion.
[+]
Lets be real folks, there isn't really any "catch up" mechanic to FFXI, they just make endless grinds to keep us paying monthly sub fees.
[+]
They won't do anything to ease entry requirements until congestion is reduced, they said that themselves and pre-Sortie there were pretty regularly 20+ page waits in Asura. Sortie helped with that and gave folks other content to focus on, which mitigated it a lot especially since lower geared players can participate.
That said, how many groups really cleared 20? Even 15 is out of reach for a lot of players, so I'd be surprised if 25 is going to be getting hammered hard except by a minority of players.
Isn't Denounce light based? I wonder if having a RUN come in and throw up Valiance before the fetter window would mitigate Denounce enough to keep everyone alive. It was bad enough at v20 though, 25 is gonna be rough.
That said, how many groups really cleared 20? Even 15 is out of reach for a lot of players, so I'd be surprised if 25 is going to be getting hammered hard except by a minority of players.
Asura.Saevel said: »
Oh god just realized, Bumba V25 will be effective impossible to beat with a sub 60s rage timer. People need to get extremely lucky to have a chance and hope it's crits and they proc it before 4K denounce.
Isn't Denounce light based? I wonder if having a RUN come in and throw up Valiance before the fetter window would mitigate Denounce enough to keep everyone alive. It was bad enough at v20 though, 25 is gonna be rough.
Asura.Iamaman said: »
Isn't Denounce light based? I wonder if having a RUN come in and throw up Valiance before the fetter window would mitigate Denounce enough to keep everyone alive. It was bad enough at v20 though, 25 is gonna be rough.
We tried that before, you replace your second DD with a RUN, who does less damage, and all it does is buy you another 30s of fight time. Valiance will reduce Denounce to barely survivable numbers, but then the fetters exploding with random elements kill everyone once OFA wears. Ultimately it was better to replace the RUN with a real DD and just kill it before it kills us. Bumba is a really poorly designed fight.
It basically boils down to answering this multiple choice quiz.
Q: <Blank>
Answers
A: Multiple Simultaneous Weapon Skills
B: Multiple Critical Hits
C: Multi-step SC that maybe heal Bumbs for 99K
D: Multiple Magic Bursts off a SC that may heal Bumba for 99K
Fail to chose the correct answer to the hidden question and you fail the test.
[+]
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.