The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||

言語: JP EN DE FR
2010-06-21
New Items
329 users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Odyssey » The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
First Page 2 3 ... 180 181 182 ... 190 191 192
 Phoenix.Iocus
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: androwe
Posts: 458
By Phoenix.Iocus 2022-07-03 09:02:33  
Asura.Geriond said: »
Gain-INT helps land Frazzle and Distract, not MND. They go by MND for potency, but INT for accuracy.
Any evidence for 'it's black magic' vs 'dStat determines m.acc'? I'd prefer to not derail a good conversation with just anecdotal evidence if we can just have a right answer that others can benefit from.
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 3059
By Asura.Geriond 2022-07-03 09:09:30  
Phoenix.Iocus said: »
Asura.Geriond said: »
Gain-INT helps land Frazzle and Distract, not MND. They go by MND for potency, but INT for accuracy.
Any evidence for 'it's black magic' vs 'dStat determines m.acc'? I'd prefer to not derail a good conversation with just anecdotal evidence if we can just have a right answer that others can benefit from.
This guy did extensive testing on MACC dSTATs and native MACCs:

https://twitter.com/MBZ2arZNkm174sV/status/1292994041722724352

You can run it through google translate to get a good enough understanding, but basically the 1st column is the spell, the 2nd column is the spell's innate magic accuracy bonus, the 3rd column is what caster stat is used for MACC, and the 4th column is what defender stat is used for MACC. The bottom 4 spells are Distract II, Frazzle, Frazzle II, and Dispel, so the ones for Distract/Frazzle aren't uncertain.
[+]
 Asura.Sechs
Online
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 8858
By Asura.Sechs 2022-07-03 09:22:48  
SimonSes said: »
Littleflame said: »
Next time you do Arebati try casting Distract and Paralyze during his aura/proc window. IIRC T3s absorb they're corresponding element (in this case ice) during that time and most monsters drop the elemental resistance they are absorbing which should make landing enfeebles easier.

Not only they drop it, but it usually goes to like 150% SDT and you can land those debuffs even from subjob (ofc not something you can try in Gaol), so you can ignore macc and go for full potency on them.
Ok, so I guess this is the answer to my question.

The times I was landing enfeebles on first attempt was because the Aura Phase was up and, hence, their resistance was low.
Makes sense.


Still, considering these targets (V20) were meant to be killed with ML20, it feels pretty strange that I have to struggle so much even with twenty more stats and twenty more skills (ML40).
Their resistances is really, really, really high.

But hey, at least they're not "immune".
[+]
Offline
Posts: 22
By Autherius 2022-07-19 22:18:35  
Our group is having trouble with Arebati V20. Our setup is RNG(ARMA), COR, GEO, WHM or SCH, BRD, RUN.

Geo does - Bolster Frail - Indi Fury - Entrust AGI, when add pops Indi Barrier.
Brd - Minne Valor Valor Valor HM
Cor - Sam Chaos

Damage is there - but at 75% when add pops even with barrier and bard song we just take waaay to much damage to survive like I've seen other groups. RNG and COR are idle nyame/DT gear, curious on what folks have done as a work around or is the answer "deal with the add by over curing".

Any help would be appreciated.
 Asura.Bippin
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gunit
Posts: 993
By Asura.Bippin 2022-07-19 22:37:01  
Can use more defense buffs or caper and have Brd hold add.

BG wiki has a ton of info on the fight
Offline
Posts: 7518
By SimonSes 2022-07-20 03:01:21  
You need to use caper anyway and Dirge song on top of that or you are guaranteed to take hate on low %

Songs should be: honor minuet minuet minne dirge. That's for DDS. BRD, SCH and GEO should have 3x minne (4x for BRD), honor and BalladIII for SCH and GEO.
Rolls should be: gallant on BRD, GEO and SCH (don't risk any specific number) that you should roll immediately after zoning, then you make Sam and chaos rolls and BRD, SCH and GEO run outside of roll range for one of them to avoid overriding Gallant. Ideally you can make 3rd roll after Arebati is pulled down or during pulling to avoid wasting time. Tank doesn't need to be in range either after all).
Bubbles shouldn't be geo frailty, but Geo fury and Indi barrier (can be geo frailty before add pop with Indi fury, but at 75% it needs to be changed).
RNG shadowbind should be used several times (with resets from 2xRD and at least one WC). Caper should be used around 60% and you should use Embrava and boosted Regen when Bolster is running out, to make up for loss of def from weaker barrier. After Caper is used it's easy for BRD or SCH to keep grabbing hate on add and with 3 or 4 minnes and Indi barrier and gallant roll they will take less damage than healing from Regen.
Remember that afaik if you use Caper, DDs should come slightly closer to tank and NM (I heard it's 20 yalms?) So Caper will work. SCH and BRD might intentionally run far away to not lose hate.
[+]
 Asura.Asalith
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Smegpot
By Asura.Asalith 2022-07-20 04:00:41  
Autherius said: »
Our group is having trouble with Arebati V20. Our setup is RNG(ARMA), COR, GEO, WHM or SCH, BRD, RUN.

Geo does - Bolster Frail - Indi Fury - Entrust AGI, when add pops Indi Barrier.
Brd - Minne Valor Valor Valor HM
Cor - Sam Chaos

Damage is there - but at 75% when add pops even with barrier and bard song we just take waaay to much damage to survive like I've seen other groups. RNG and COR are idle nyame/DT gear, curious on what folks have done as a work around or is the answer "deal with the add by over curing".

Any help would be appreciated.

An easy way to deal with the add is to stop all damage on the boss as soon as the SCH uses Caper, get the BRD to pull hate on the add and run it 50y away, once the BRD has pulled it up or down stairs you can continue DPS.

The bard can kite it on the floor that you are not using, with Paeons/Minne/Regen/Embrava.

This also frees up your 2nd GEO spell and makes the fight really easy. Only thing you need to be slightly wary of is that the BRD may need come back to reapply songs if dps is low.

Also, when originally doing this fight without the above strat, we had to ensure RNG+COR had 50PDT on preshot and midshot, it's not just the idle that needs to have cap DT.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 7518
By SimonSes 2022-07-20 04:09:37  
Asura.Asalith said: »
This also frees up your 2nd GEO spell and makes the fight really easy. Only thing you need to be slightly wary of is that the BRD may need come back to reapply songs if dps is low.

That's why you should cast SV+Clarion songs first, then use NITRO when SV is at 30sec remaining and reapply it. This will keep songs on everyone until fight is over.
[+]
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1360
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2022-07-20 08:42:48  
Autherius said: »
Our group is having trouble with Arebati V20. Our setup is RNG(ARMA), COR, GEO, WHM or SCH, BRD, RUN.

Geo does - Bolster Frail - Indi Fury - Entrust AGI, when add pops Indi Barrier.
Brd - Minne Valor Valor Valor HM
Cor - Sam Chaos

Damage is there - but at 75% when add pops even with barrier and bard song we just take waaay to much damage to survive like I've seen other groups. RNG and COR are idle nyame/DT gear, curious on what folks have done as a work around or is the answer "deal with the add by over curing".

Any help would be appreciated.

what we did is we saved bolster for after add pop and bolstered Fury/Barrier to try to mitigate damage as much as possible. I have not personally found the geo debuffs (Frailty/Malaise) useful for any of the V20s I've done. The bosses put out so much damage, that they are constantly down.

Edit: Once the brd is successful at pulling the add away, can switch barrier to AGI, to increase kill speed.
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8724
By Asura.Saevel 2022-07-20 08:52:13  
Asura.Asalith said: »
Autherius said: »
Our group is having trouble with Arebati V20. Our setup is RNG(ARMA), COR, GEO, WHM or SCH, BRD, RUN.

Geo does - Bolster Frail - Indi Fury - Entrust AGI, when add pops Indi Barrier.
Brd - Minne Valor Valor Valor HM
Cor - Sam Chaos

Damage is there - but at 75% when add pops even with barrier and bard song we just take waaay to much damage to survive like I've seen other groups. RNG and COR are idle nyame/DT gear, curious on what folks have done as a work around or is the answer "deal with the add by over curing".

Any help would be appreciated.

An easy way to deal with the add is to stop all damage on the boss as soon as the SCH uses Caper, get the BRD to pull hate on the add and run it 50y away, once the BRD has pulled it up or down stairs you can continue DPS.

The bard can kite it on the floor that you are not using, with Paeons/Minne/Regen/Embrava.

This also frees up your 2nd GEO spell and makes the fight really easy. Only thing you need to be slightly wary of is that the BRD may need come back to reapply songs if dps is low.

Also, when originally doing this fight without the above strat, we had to ensure RNG+COR had 50PDT on preshot and midshot, it's not just the idle that needs to have cap DT.

Why stop damage? After the add pops it's hate list is completely separate from the main boss. The add's don't "share hate", they just pop with copy of the boss's list at that moment in time, and whomever is at the top of the boss's list is removed from the adds's list.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-07-20 09:45:30  
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
I have not personally found the geo debuffs (Frailty/Malaise) useful for any of the V20s I've done. The bosses put out so much damage, that they are constantly down.

I don't know who it was, either Geriond, or someone from JP community (or combination of both) who said Bolster Frailty or Malaise WAS worth it and superior in terms of lowering m/p defense, so they are indeed "useful". There is a case to be made, though, that without Dematerialize, the cost of keeping up a bubble near any of the bosses is just not worth the trouble, which I can agree with.

Anyways, in addition to what was said by other comments, you should really try to land a Troubadaur Earth Threnody + Elegy on the add, if at all possible. Threnody will help the WHM possibly land Slow, which definitely helps in neutralizing the Raaz add a lot. I suppose a GEO could entrust like a GEO-Paralyze or Slow on like the BRD or whatever, since Entrust is pretty low quality as far as buff support is concerned (Entrust AGI is a minor dps bonus, and you said dps was not an issue).
[+]
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1360
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2022-07-20 09:55:31  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
I have not personally found the geo debuffs (Frailty/Malaise) useful for any of the V20s I've done. The bosses put out so much damage, that they are constantly down.

I don't know who it was, either Geriond, or someone from JP community (or combination of both) who said Bolster Frailty or Malaise WAS worth it and superior in terms of lowering m/p defense, so they are indeed "useful". There is a case to be made, though, that without Dematerialize, the cost of keeping up a bubble near any of the bosses is just not worth the trouble, which I can agree with.

Anyways, in addition to what was said by other comments, you should really try to land a Troubadaur Earth Threnody + Elegy on the add, if at all possible. Threnody will help the WHM possibly land Slow, which definitely helps in neutralizing the Raaz add a lot. I suppose a GEO could entrust like a GEO-Paralyze or Slow on like the BRD or whatever, since Entrust is pretty low quality as far as buff support is concerned (Entrust AGI is a minor dps bonus, and you said dps was not an issue).

That is why I said I personally have not found it so. Because, objectively, even with a -75% potency nerf, they are in theory useful. I just found it so hard to keep them alive for more than a few seconds without dematerialize that it was like they were not even there when I was trying to maintain them.

Edit: to clarify, switching out of Malaise on Ongo completely transformed my role on GEO in that fight. I wasn't constantly having to re-apply the Malaise bubble during the fight and it freed me up to nuke in something other than Idris and in our wins, I ended up doing 20% of the overall damage. When I was trying to keep my bubble alive, I was doing 6-8% of the overall damage.
 Asura.Asalith
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Smegpot
By Asura.Asalith 2022-07-20 11:02:37  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Why stop damage? After the add pops it's hate list is completely separate from the main boss. The add's don't "share hate", they just pop with copy of the boss's list at that moment in time, and whomever is at the top of the boss's list is removed from the adds's list.

You don't have to stop damage but it's safer to, feeding tp can cause the sch to heal which can potentially mess it up for a bit.

He dies quick enough and holding dmg only loses 20~ sec and you'll still have 7+ minutes spare at the end, so there's no real reason not to hold damage.
 Bismarck.Sterk
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Llewelyn
Posts: 309
By Bismarck.Sterk 2022-07-21 17:44:09  
Anyone use TP reset strat on Arebati know if Aymur makes a noticeable difference in how fast you're allowed to DD? We got our win using solo SAM DD with a practically naked BST using TP Drainkiss (only notable pieces being Ready recast- and TP Bonus hands), but I had to intentionally limit myself a bit since even with just 1 DD in ~30 Subtle Blow gear in WS, we would see TP moves if I WS'd as soon as I got 2250ish TP on the add. If Aymur would make a noticeable difference in how fast I'm allowed to WS the boss, then I may consider making one for the future v25 fight.
 Valefor.Aspens
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Aspens
Posts: 10
By Valefor.Aspens 2022-07-22 11:10:46  
What's the dps gap between fomalhaut and arma on a fight like arebati?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-07-22 11:58:09  
Depends on how long you can stay alive from the Raaz. In the grand scheme, it's truly inconsequential. DPS in that fight is not hard to achieve, it's surviving the second phase. I've killed Arebati 20 with Annihilator where Fomal would clearly be better.
 Fenrir.Melphina
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: melphina
Posts: 1410
By Fenrir.Melphina 2022-07-22 12:31:35  
Quote:
Depends on how long you can stay alive from the Raaz. In the grand scheme, it's truly inconsequential. DPS in that fight is not hard to achieve, it's surviving the second phase. I've killed Arebati 20 with Annihilator where Fomal would clearly be better.

Just wait until we have two pigs come veng 25! Who can honestly say they aren't looking forward to THAT? Double the raaz for double the fun! It'll be awesome.
Offline
Posts: 7518
By SimonSes 2022-07-22 12:49:03  
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Quote:
Depends on how long you can stay alive from the Raaz. In the grand scheme, it's truly inconsequential. DPS in that fight is not hard to achieve, it's surviving the second phase. I've killed Arebati 20 with Annihilator where Fomal would clearly be better.

Just wait until we have two pigs come veng 25! Who can honestly say they aren't looking forward to THAT? Double the raaz for double the fun! It'll be awesome.

Unless there is some specific mechanic where you cant hold 2 on one char, then it wont matter. BRD with Indi barrier, Gallant roll and 4x Minne will be hit for double digit even on crits probably.
Offline
Posts: 215
By Weeew 2022-07-22 13:11:03  
SimonSes said: »
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Quote:
Depends on how long you can stay alive from the Raaz. In the grand scheme, it's truly inconsequential. DPS in that fight is not hard to achieve, it's surviving the second phase. I've killed Arebati 20 with Annihilator where Fomal would clearly be better.

Just wait until we have two pigs come veng 25! Who can honestly say they aren't looking forward to THAT? Double the raaz for double the fun! It'll be awesome.

Unless there is some specific mechanic where you cant hold 2 on one char, then it wont matter. BRD with Indi barrier, Gallant roll and 4x Minne will be hit for double digit even on crits probably.

Don't worry guys... I'll post some pics after several wipes on V25 and showing baniak swearing his @$$ off in the chat ^^
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-07-24 23:28:44  
BTW, BLU can land Slow from Embalming Earth (25%) on the Snapweed (without Threnody).



Pair it with Elegy and it's not going to be very threatening.
[+]
 Asura.Schroe
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Schroe
By Asura.Schroe 2022-07-31 20:44:44  
Any tips for Gigelorum solo?(V0) Got him to 20% on PLD with a beryllium mace but ate it.
 Leviathan.Kingkitt
Offline
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: kingkitt
Posts: 511
By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2022-07-31 22:24:40  
Asura.Schroe said: »
Any tips for Gigelorum solo?(V0) Got him to 20% on PLD with a beryllium mace but ate it.

Could use PUP to tank if you have it, or MNK works well also assuming you have things like malignance.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [63 days between previous and next post]
 Asura.Otomis
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Asura.Otomis 2022-10-02 22:57:59  
I have done RP in the past on some NMs as a heavy DD with support trusts on V20s. Which I know, as soon as it hits 75% I am going to de normally.

BUT, recently it seems the NMs are opening with fetters with in 30 secs of pull, before trusts even get buffs up?

As I have not solo'd in about 5-6 weeks, I am wondering if some update happened?

When entering with 3 or more, would not see fetters until much later in the fight.

twice of the 4 runs I was able to remove Kalunga fetters quickly solo to which he dispelled and brought up fetters again.

As anyone else noticed this? Looks like the only way to solo RP will be Bst. Which is just a lot less fun /sadface.
 Asura.Warmoose
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Hillclimb
Posts: 32
By Asura.Warmoose 2022-10-02 23:38:15  
V20 6% RP has always been hit or miss for me in regards to fetters, and I hardly rely on trusts unless I'm the one buffing them like for Ongo. I usually just duo-trio for super charges to be safer/more reliable.

Been doing these just fine, and noticed no change

1. Ongo/Arebati - RUN+SCH or RUN+RNG
2. Mboze/Kalunga WHM + WAR
3. Gogmagog/Henwen/Ngai (easy RDM duo's)

Plus the appropriate trusts.
Offline
Posts: 398
By Vaerix 2022-10-03 02:38:44  
Asura.Otomis said: »
I have done RP in the past on some NMs as a heavy DD with support trusts on V20s. Which I know, as soon as it hits 75% I am going to de normally.

BUT, recently it seems the NMs are opening with fetters with in 30 secs of pull, before trusts even get buffs up?

As I have not solo'd in about 5-6 weeks, I am wondering if some update happened?

When entering with 3 or more, would not see fetters until much later in the fight.

twice of the 4 runs I was able to remove Kalunga fetters quickly solo to which he dispelled and brought up fetters again.

As anyone else noticed this? Looks like the only way to solo RP will be Bst. Which is just a lot less fun /sadface.

The biggest issue I ever ran into doing solo/low-man for Atonement 3 is the initial nuke wrecking trusts. The best way I found to handle this is run toward boss and immediately turn and burn (runaway). This hopefully burns the initial spellcast that you out range then when the boss runs to you engage as he's coming, then after first hit turn around while your trusts get buffs up and your tank gets enmity.

Realistically, very few of these NM's have ridiculous regain to push them to tp move/aura if you're not attacking them. So I'd say get trusts to engage and turn back to boss while they buff.

Also there was an old solo strategy summoning something like a geo trust, engage boss, dismiss geo then pull boss where you want and summon a tank trust and it gets a distance buffer between your trusts. That isn't the exact strategy but someone on this thread may remember it, I know it was used alot in the early days by solo/low man players to keep support away from Aoe's.

Good luck!

Edit: So sorry I didn't even address your post's biggest question, no updates have explicitly said they've messed with the priority of NM tp move selection, and I haven't really seen anything really get favored over another tp move during A3 fights. Sorry!
 Fenrir.Velner
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Velner
Posts: 289
By Fenrir.Velner 2022-10-03 04:41:01  
Asura.Otomis said: »
I have done RP in the past on some NMs as a heavy DD with support trusts on V20s. Which I know, as soon as it hits 75% I am going to de normally.

BUT, recently it seems the NMs are opening with fetters with in 30 secs of pull, before trusts even get buffs up?

As I have not solo'd in about 5-6 weeks, I am wondering if some update happened?

When entering with 3 or more, would not see fetters until much later in the fight.

twice of the 4 runs I was able to remove Kalunga fetters quickly solo to which he dispelled and brought up fetters again.

As anyone else noticed this? Looks like the only way to solo RP will be Bst. Which is just a lot less fun /sadface.

Super early Aura has been a hurdle for me since V20 released.
[+]
 Asura.Sechs
Online
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 8858
By Asura.Sechs 2022-10-25 02:43:40  
So far I've only used supercharged Moogle Amplifier with runs where we killed all three targets.
But in theory the superchanging mechanics should work even if I "only" deal 5% damage to the enemy?

Say I do:
NM1 > NM2 > NM3
And only deal 5% damage to all three.
Next time I enter inside Sheol Gaol will my Moogle Amplifier be supercharged the same?
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18051
By Valefor.Prothescar 2022-10-25 02:51:04  
Yes, that's the cheese method that they never fixed
[+]
 Shiva.Thorny
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Rairin
Posts: 1525
By Shiva.Thorny 2022-10-25 05:48:27  
To be clear though, dealing 5% damage means reducing the HP bar to 94%. 95% won't count.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Byrthnoth
Posts: 6003
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2022-10-25 08:40:08  
How hard is it to land Purulent Ooze? Need a pet Macc build?
First Page 2 3 ... 180 181 182 ... 190 191 192
Log in to post.