The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||

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The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
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 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2022-01-16 22:33:37  
Asura.Essylt said: »
Sylph.Reain said: »
Ranged Damage.
What weapon did you use on RNG? I used Annihilator for our V15 clear, because going ham on anything else ended up pulling hate no matter how much we tried to reset it.

Armageddon.
Our RNG usually starts to pull hate around 50% and we use Caper Emissarius to dump all hate onto the RUN (Usually around 60% before the RNG pulls hate, especially with fetters out). We'll do it earlier if we need to though. Then Wild Card after. Our SCH also does Animus Minuo on everyone, but the RUN. Crusade will overwrite it.

We also, always on the pull have the RUN flash and run to the group and hit everyone with Valiance and One for all to spike hate for every NM we take RUN to.
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By Ranoutofspace 2022-01-16 23:30:24  
Yep, make use of Libra every minute to check where the hate levels are at with the group. Once it's at 70% or so get ready to use Caper Emissarius on the tank and it's smooth(er) sailing from there.
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 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2022-01-17 05:13:47  
I hit level 9 moogle mastery for Sheol B after killing Gravehaunter with these stats:
1990 Nostos
1 of every NM
2 Kuk
5 Langmeidong
2 Ptesan Wi
3 Gravehaunter
3 Spyrysyon
3 Simir
2 Akidu
3 Ishum
2 Maveric Mauve
13 Tripix
250 chests
46 coffers
2 aurum strongboxes

So it was my 6th NM to 3 kills.

I suspect that I will get another level of moogle mastery from killing Nostos and opening chests in the near future, because I'm probably already over whatever the fourth threshold is for them and was likely being capped by my NM progression.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-01-17 11:22:56  
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I suspect that I will get another level of moogle mastery from killing Nostos and opening chests in the near future, because I'm probably already over whatever the fourth threshold is for them and was likely being capped by my NM progression.

Probably. You can only gain one MM level per visit to Odyssey, but based on your stats, it's very possible to line up your NM kills to basically give you an increase on each of your next 2-4 runs. If you get some of the NMs from 2 kills to 3 in the same run, you will likely gain some MM quickly since you've hit a lot of your other marks and were probably soft locked from gaining more levels.
 Valefor.Cinzia
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By Valefor.Cinzia 2022-01-18 16:59:54  
So empy gun > R15 aeonic on this? My main issue with this fight is I'm not able to DPS enough to bring it down after add, most we've gotten is 37% then time out or wipe from the add. Not sure if doing hover shot is going to increase overall DPS, since you gotta stop and move then shoot, then ws, the frequency of WS maybe less even if it's more per WS.
 Asura.Disclai
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By Asura.Disclai 2022-01-18 19:44:12  
Downed Kalunga v20 using a NIN instead of an RDM, simply shadow tanking the add while DDing in Yonin.

PLD / WHM / BRD / COR / DRK / NIN
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 Asura.Iamaman
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By Asura.Iamaman 2022-01-18 20:16:05  
Asura.Disclai said: »
Downed Kalunga v20 using a NIN instead of an RDM, simply shadow tanking the add while DDing in Yonin.

PLD / WHM / BRD / COR / DRK / NIN

I'm glad someone tried this, I had wondered if that was viable for certain fights.

Having only done a few v20s myself, I'm still unclear on the hate mechanics. I was under the impression the add went after #2 on the hate list and maintained that (so it didn't have its own enmity register, rather shared slot #2 with the boss). Did you break off and engage it for the duration of the fight or were you able to grab hate and hold it while fighting Kalunga?
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By Asura.Disclai 2022-01-18 20:20:53  
Asura.Iamaman said: »
Asura.Disclai said: »
Downed Kalunga v20 using a NIN instead of an RDM, simply shadow tanking the add while DDing in Yonin.

PLD / WHM / BRD / COR / DRK / NIN

I'm glad someone tried this, I had wondered if that was viable for certain fights.

Having only done a few v20s myself, I'm still unclear on the hate mechanics. I was under the impression the add went after #2 on the hate list and maintained that (so it didn't have its own enmity register, rather shared slot #2 with the boss). Did you break off and engage it for the duration of the fight or were you able to grab hate and hold it while fighting Kalunga?

I stayed DDing on Kalunga in Yonin stance and comfortably maintained second hate (and was even ahead of the DRK for awhile on damage using Naegling+TP bonus), until I ate an unlucky death late in the fight when the add hit me for 1300 + 900 the millisecond after Kalunga's Firaga went off. In full DT.
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By Ruaumoko 2022-01-18 20:28:41  
That convinces me that NIN will work on Arebati.
Ullr and switch between Yonin and Innin when crits needed.
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By SimonSes 2022-01-19 03:22:00  
Ruaumoko said: »
That convinces me that NIN will work on Arebati.
Ullr and switch between Yonin and Innin when crits needed.

Not sure how you plan to force add on NIN tho? You would need to get more hate than RNG and COR to be 2nd on hate list. Unless instead of trying to DD, you will simply spam Utsusemi for hate (not too much tho, so you wont end up taking hate from NM), then you should be able to do it. Forget Ullr then tho and just focus on holding add, possibly also get mambox2.
 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2022-01-19 05:38:34  
Asura.Iamaman said: »
I was under the impression the add went after #2 on the hate list and maintained that (so it didn't have its own enmity register, rather shared slot #2 with the boss).

I think it's more specific than that, the add likely starts with bosses hate list, and every tick the server empties hate for the boss's top target. So, you should be able to acquire enmity on the add, but the second you top the boss's hate list you lose it all.
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 Valefor.Cinzia
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By Valefor.Cinzia 2022-01-19 08:02:42  
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Asura.Iamaman said: »
I was under the impression the add went after #2 on the hate list and maintained that (so it didn't have its own enmity register, rather shared slot #2 with the boss).

I think it's more specific than that, the add likely starts with bosses hate list, and every tick the server empties hate for the boss's top target. So, you should be able to acquire enmity on the add, but the second you top the boss's hate list you lose it all.

There's something else going on too. Let's say WHM in 2nd on hate then suddenly BRD or GEO who's lower on hate dies, and they reraise up again, they somehow will easily get hate from add, not sure how when you're 0 enmity then just do a song it becomes 2nd in hate on the list? WHM is so -enmity that BRD after reraising can get 2nd in hate?
 Valefor.Cinzia
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By Valefor.Cinzia 2022-01-19 08:06:49  
Ruaumoko said: »
That convinces me that NIN will work on Arebati.
Ullr and switch between Yonin and Innin when crits needed.
I don't know how you want to beat Arebati, ranged damage is already lower DPS than a melee, you're using NIN's lower Archery skills to do dmg and higher than RNG or COR?

Have you tried V20 Arebati yet? I've done 8 or so fights and everytime there's not enough DPS or the add destroys everyone. The raaz has some sort of triple dmg or something and double attacks alot. I don't know how that other group without Idris GEO managed to beat it and not maxed out COR either.

Also using SCH means no dia2, so only def down is RUN's GA armor break.
 Asura.Toralin
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By Asura.Toralin 2022-01-19 08:06:59  
Valefor.Cinzia said: »
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Asura.Iamaman said: »
I was under the impression the add went after #2 on the hate list and maintained that (so it didn't have its own enmity register, rather shared slot #2 with the boss).

I think it's more specific than that, the add likely starts with bosses hate list, and every tick the server empties hate for the boss's top target. So, you should be able to acquire enmity on the add, but the second you top the boss's hate list you lose it all.

There's something else going on too. Let's say WHM in 2nd on hate then suddenly BRD or GEO who's lower on hate dies, and they reraise up again, they somehow will easily get hate from add, not sure how when you're 0 enmity then just do a song it becomes 2nd in hate on the list? WHM is so -enmity that BRD after reraising can get 2nd in hate?
Yes agree, I was doing roll only cor, no hate, was just standing there, went in and rolled and then it was all over me.
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By SimonSes 2022-01-19 08:08:42  
Valefor.Cinzia said: »
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Asura.Iamaman said: »
I was under the impression the add went after #2 on the hate list and maintained that (so it didn't have its own enmity register, rather shared slot #2 with the boss).

I think it's more specific than that, the add likely starts with bosses hate list, and every tick the server empties hate for the boss's top target. So, you should be able to acquire enmity on the add, but the second you top the boss's hate list you lose it all.

There's something else going on too. Let's say WHM in 2nd on hate then suddenly BRD or GEO who's lower on hate dies, and they reraise up again, they somehow will easily get hate from add, not sure how when you're 0 enmity then just do a song it becomes 2nd in hate on the list? WHM is so -enmity that BRD after reraising can get 2nd in hate?

Are you sure WHM simply not taking hate on NM at some point which reset it's hate on add to 0? Some NMs has hate reset tp moves, if they hate reset tank and then kill or hate reset DD and WHM will have hate even for split second, then all 3 are taken from add's hate list.
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By Mipha 2022-01-19 09:31:42  
SimonSes said: »
Valefor.Cinzia said: »
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Asura.Iamaman said: »
I was under the impression the add went after #2 on the hate list and maintained that (so it didn't have its own enmity register, rather shared slot #2 with the boss).

I think it's more specific than that, the add likely starts with bosses hate list, and every tick the server empties hate for the boss's top target. So, you should be able to acquire enmity on the add, but the second you top the boss's hate list you lose it all.

There's something else going on too. Let's say WHM in 2nd on hate then suddenly BRD or GEO who's lower on hate dies, and they reraise up again, they somehow will easily get hate from add, not sure how when you're 0 enmity then just do a song it becomes 2nd in hate on the list? WHM is so -enmity that BRD after reraising can get 2nd in hate?

Are you sure WHM simply not taking hate on NM at some point which reset it's hate on add to 0? Some NMs has hate reset tp moves, if they hate reset tank and then kill or hate reset DD and WHM will have hate even for split second, then all 3 are taken from add's hate list.

No this behavior only happens when someone dies in the fight when add is out. If no one dies, BRD or GEO/COR can do whatever, sing rolls and won't get hate, if say a DD or WHM is 2nd on hate, it stays that way. But once someone dies, doesn't have to be 2nd on hate or 3rd or 4th, they can grab enmity on add easily. Maybe that's the trick lol? Die and you can get hate on add since you're effectively 0 on NM? Not sure.
 Asura.Iamaman
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By Asura.Iamaman 2022-01-19 10:15:03  
Could it be prioritizing characters below a certain enmity level, then, if that threshold isn't met, targeting #2? I wonder if you stood there and did nothing, if it would come after you, possibly to slow down/complicate mercing (although it'd make more sense to have it pop at the start if that were the case).

That's all assuming enmity resets to 0 upon KO.
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By Shiva.Thorny 2022-01-19 10:51:06  
Asura.Iamaman said: »
enmity resets to 0 upon KO.

typical mechanic is that enmity resets only if you're dead or out of zone while at top of hate list, so getting KOed by aoe does not necessarily reset enmity.

don't really have a great theory as to why add would target newly reraised members, though
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By SimonSes 2022-01-19 11:54:27  
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Asura.Iamaman said: »
enmity resets to 0 upon KO.

typical mechanic is that enmity resets only if you're dead or out of zone while at top of hate list, so getting KOed by aoe does not necessarily reset enmity.

don't really have a great theory as to why add would target newly reraised members, though

We had several deaths on Gigalorum and add never went for reraised members. They stayed on me until I finally pull hate from tank and then add left me and went for backline. So maybe few V20 fights have additional enmity rules?
 Leviathan.Boposhopo
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By Leviathan.Boposhopo 2022-01-19 11:57:26  
SimonSes said: »
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Asura.Iamaman said: »
enmity resets to 0 upon KO.

typical mechanic is that enmity resets only if you're dead or out of zone while at top of hate list, so getting KOed by aoe does not necessarily reset enmity.

don't really have a great theory as to why add would target newly reraised members, though

We had several deaths on Gigalorum and add never went for reraised members. They stayed on me until I finally pull hate from tank and then add left me and went for backline. So maybe few V20 fights have additional enmity rules?

I've had the exact opposite experience with Gigelorum, while for the most part he stuck on the #2 on the list (usually the DD) we had a couple times where he'd just run off randomly and kill the BRD or COR that wasn't doing anything. Anytime they raised add would just hunt them down.
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By SimonSes 2022-01-19 14:26:13  
Make video next time and we can analyze it. Otherwise its guessing without knowing the facts and what exactly happened.
 Valefor.Cinzia
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By Valefor.Cinzia 2022-01-19 14:32:11  
Maybe death enmity are to avoid zombie strats for adds? who knows
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-01-19 14:39:35  
Has anyone gotten around to testing how pets interact with the Enmity situation in Gaol? Someone brought up an interesting idea for something like Ngai: bring PUP and see how Ventriloquiy affects the auto. I wonder if auto can hold an add in a corner indefinitely if it isn't subject to the same Enmity rules as players.

Pets do have weird interaction with monsters. I specifically remember BST pets having unique hate properties vs Sheol B NM adds and they would simply disappear afterwards if the pet died but was the only thing to perform action on it. Not saying it's the same thing for Gaol, but would be worth seeing how Snarl/Ventriloquiy operate with it
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By Asura.Geriond 2022-01-19 16:48:03  
Maybe try having PUP be second on hate list as 75% approaches, then use Ventriloquy right before add pop and see if you can get puppet to just hold it while PUP goes back to killing boss.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-01-19 18:07:25  
That's 100% exactly what I had in mind when I talked about this the other day, just haven't had the opportunity to test it.
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By Valefor.Worlace 2022-01-19 18:12:46  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
That's 100% exactly what I had in mind when I talked about this the other day, just haven't had the opportunity to test it.

I did this on gigelorum. The puppet was tanking in a corner well away from the NM with zero issue while everyone was going to town on the NM… until the PUP got one shotted. Then it went to hell.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-01-19 18:17:45  
Interesting. That might work on Ngai as my friend and I were discussing. If what Thorny says is true about hate being wonky/reset if you rip hate, it might not go crazy for an automaton if you spike it's hate right before the add pops and then transfer it, and then never have the auto act on Ngai again. It can't get it's hate reset from Protolithic Puncture, and it can't get #1 on Ngai's hate list either, so the add theoretically should always stay on auto (at least until Sundering Snip snipsnips it ded). Correct?
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By Ruaumoko 2022-01-19 22:55:46  
Sundering Snip should be blunted by the Schurzen and by being at -87.5% DT. Should be, has to be tested for sure.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-01-19 23:13:30  
I would agree with you but Papesse commented a while back about V15 Craklaw that automaton was dying to sundering snip. Not sure if pup in his group was using the correct attachments for it. I also don't know if this add is actually Marmokrebs with the exact same mechanics, or a dumbed down version. Snip usually does 60% but Marmokrebs snip is much stronger. And given that Matamata from Kalunga had access to Debilitating Spout with full dispel, I would be inclined to believe Sundering Snip from Ngai's Craklaw would have access to the same version as well.

But yes, needs testing. Will try it tomorrow night if nobody gets to it before then
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By Asura.Lioncourt 2022-01-20 02:44:27  
Has anyone tried procing the adds using the same method as their respective T3 NMs?
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