The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||

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The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
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 Fenrir.Velner
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By Fenrir.Velner 2021-06-16 13:41:16  
Question: Are GEO debuff bubbles nerfed 95% in Gaol? And if so, where might I see numbers that back this assertion up? Thank you for your time.
 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2021-06-16 17:30:56  
Quote:
Question: Are GEO debuff bubbles nerfed 95% in Gaol? And if so, where might I see numbers that back this assertion up? Thank you for your time.


They're nerfed hard. I don't know the exact amount, but it's high enough that debuffs aren't worth it. You're better off just using buffs instead.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-06-17 01:24:43  
I know this was surely discussed already but I noticed that the amount of Izzat required to open chests/coffer/aurum goes down with how many times you've opened that type of chest before, and not with your Moogle Mastery level.

Many, many, many months ago it was believed that Master was at the source of the points reduction, whereas it seems it's not the case?
And I guess it's the same for the number of required items to pop NMs.


What does Mastery do then I wonder, other than greatly raising the stats of your trusts?
 Asura.Nususu
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By Asura.Nususu 2021-06-17 08:08:54  
Does Quick Draw affect threnody? I am planning to do V15 Ongo clear soon, but the wiki isn’t clear on if potency of say, earth threnody can be enhanced by wind shot.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-06-17 08:25:27  
Moogle Mastery only improves the strength of your trusts. That's all it's ever done and SE specifically said this when Odyssey was released. They just never gave us the exact stats. Moogle Mastery has nothing to do with chest izzat cost or NM material cost. They are unrelated, though you can increase Moogle Mastery levels by reaching some milestones through chests and NM kills. That's the only connection.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-06-17 08:31:23  
Someone should update BG though, because people over these boards (and consequentially on BG-wiki) were all taking for granted that Mastery affected the izzat required to open chests and the number of items required to pop NMs.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-06-17 08:59:10  
It probably should be updated. A lot of things on that page was written when Sheol A was released, so it was just a compilation of all of the things we discovered at the time that we later figured out.

It wasn't a direct effect (MM:Izzat Cost/UNM Cost), but as I said many times in this thread, you CAN gain MM levels by opening chests and killing NMs. For that reason, people assumed that higher Moogle Mastery influenced the cost of these actions. For instance, opening a certain amount of chests or killing a set number of NMs for the first time will reward you with a Moogle Mastery level increase. A player would automatically assume that that because he gained levels from these actions that the reverse was also true (his MM level affects how much these actions cost).

But you can easily disprove this belief by simply going into Sheol A on a fresh character and only popping the same NM several times across many runs. Then use another character to only open chests (not coffers nor aurums). At some point, you will no longer gain any more MM from doing either single task. The character who opened chests will never see a UNM material cost decrease, and the character who only killed NMs will never see a chest izzat decrease, despite both gaining Moogle Mastery levels from their respective objectives.
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 Carbuncle.Ared
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By Carbuncle.Ared 2021-06-17 11:00:19  
Asura.Sechs said: »
I know this was surely discussed already but I noticed that the amount of Izzat required to open chests/coffer/aurum goes down with how many times you've opened that type of chest before, and not with your Moogle Mastery level.

Many, many, many months ago it was believed that Master was at the source of the points reduction, whereas it seems it's not the case?
And I guess it's the same for the number of required items to pop NMs.


What does Mastery do then I wonder, other than greatly raising the stats of your trusts?

Sechs, if you're referring to me, you're missing what I was saying. I'm actually trying to see if I can quantify the opposite. BG currently lists that you need Aurum Strongboxes, and I found a post on this thread that states the number to be 16 Aurum Strongboxes to max out the chest portion for a given Sheol.

What I'm trying to do is find the amount of Chests that is equivalent to one Aurum Strongbox, making it easier to tell how many total chests would need to be opened for those who, like myself, are slow burning through Odyssey rather than going with a static. It's more because I want to try to contribute to these two sites that have provided lots of information and guidance, and I figure if I'm going to slow burn through Odyssey anyway, I might as well try to dig into these difficult to answer questions (assuming I can actually do so).
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-06-17 11:42:32  
Carbuncle.Ared said: »
What I'm trying to do is find the amount of Chests that is equivalent to one Aurum Strongbox, making it easier to tell how many total chests would need to be opened

The chest, coffer, and aurum requirements to earn a Moogle Mastery rank/cap MM per zone are all independent of each other. Meaning you can open 1000 chests and coffers but if you never hit 16 aurum boxes in that particular zone, you'll never get the MM increase from that last objective. There is no conversion such as "open 100 chests=1 aurum credit"

There are some higher objectives, however, that only award the next Mastery bonus of that category when you have some combination of previous objectives completed. I think Nostos kills is one of them
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 Carbuncle.Ared
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By Carbuncle.Ared 2021-06-17 13:14:56  
Thanks, Buukki. That's useful information. I'm still not convinced that there isn't a conversion at all, but I can see the 16 Aurum Strongboxes basically being a capstone. What's not completely clear yet is whether there are intermediate tiers.

And, yes, I'm fully aware that there is a difference between zones. That's why I've spent my time entirely within Sheol B to gather what data I can on increasing MM levels. So far, I've only ever opened Chests and dealt with a handful of NMs. It's obvious that I'll need to focus a bit more on Coffers next to see what comes of it.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-06-17 13:43:15  
Carbuncle.Ared said: »
Sechs, if you're referring to me
I have no clue what you're talking about, so no I guess I wasn't talking about you, sorry °-°



Anyway for Aurum Coffers at 4 opened it was still costing me 20 points.
Now I have like 5 or 6, need to check if it went down.

Chests I have no clue when it caps at 5, but Coffers cap at 8 points at 250 coffers opened, I think.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-06-17 15:31:32  
Carbuncle.Ared said: »
I'm still not convinced that there isn't a conversion at all

The Pilgrim Moogle tracks your chest/coffer/aurum progress. If there was some form of conversion mechanism in place, someone would have noticed it by now. You would have physically been able to see your number of Aurum Strongboxes increase if this were the case.
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By SimonSes 2021-06-17 16:00:40  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Chests I have no clue when it caps at 5, but Coffers cap at 8 points at 250 coffers opened, I think.

Chests cap at 50, Coffer at 50 and Aurum at 50 (for opening cost). I thought its common knowledge.
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-06-17 17:26:58  
Chest/Coffer/Aurum have roughly -10% cost per 10 opened.
 Asura.Aburaage
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By Asura.Aburaage 2021-06-17 17:38:39  
Is the cost reduction based on individual stats or shared with PT member who has highest stat?
 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2021-06-17 17:56:41  
individual for the person opening it
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By Chimerawizard 2021-06-17 20:10:11  
Shiva.Thorny said: »
individual for the person opening it
yep, also everyone in party gets credit for opening no matter who opens.
If you're trying to cap the izzat reduction, take someone on thf to pop coffers or strongboxes that aren't yet -50% cost.
 Carbuncle.Ared
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By Carbuncle.Ared 2021-06-17 21:54:25  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
The Pilgrim Moogle tracks your chest/coffer/aurum progress. If there was some form of conversion mechanism in place, someone would have noticed it by now. You would have physically been able to see your number of Aurum Strongboxes increase if this were the case.

That answers that. Thank you. (Can you tell how much of a slow roll I'm doing?)
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-06-18 01:53:32  
Either I'm missing something or you guys are contradicting yourselves.

The cost to open a chest is based on the stats of the person trying to open it (nothing to do with the pt in the zone with you), I can confirm this.

About "chests opened by other pt members counting towards your number of opened chests" I have two things to say:
1) Yes, if someone else in my pt opens a chest, the counter on the Pilgrim Moogle goes up
2) No, I didn't cap at 8 points (roughly ~50% cost reduction) for Coffers at 50, but exactely at 250. So either the number 50 is wrong, or the cost goes down not according to the total number of opened coffers (that you can check on the Pilgrim Moogle) but on the total number of coffers opened by you.

If things are like this, then maybe it's just a coincidence that the 250th coffer I opened was actually the 50th I truly opened myself.
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By SimonSes 2021-06-18 01:59:28  
Are you talking of path C? Isn't path C has still broken stats on moogle and it shows chest/coffer/aurum stats of path b or something?
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-06-18 02:27:15  
I'm talking about Sheol C, but my Sheol B stats are almost empty because I've practically never done runs in B so I don't think that should influence my stats on Sheol C.


For what it's worth I have Moogle Mastery XI in C.
II in B
VI in A
 Bismarck.Ringoko
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By Bismarck.Ringoko 2021-06-18 02:39:43  
SimonSes said: »
Are you talking of path C? Isn't path C has still broken stats on moogle and it shows chest/coffer/aurum stats of path b or something?

Pretty sure that was fixed a few patches ago. Too lazy to verify now.
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By SimonSes 2021-06-18 03:37:05  
I will try to check on various chars today and let you know.
 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2021-06-18 08:12:18  
Sorry haven't been following thread in a while so this may have already been answered. I'm MM Level 13 in Sheol C and have been for like 2 months now killing agons and Nm's each day. Killed all nm's a good amount of times, only thing I don't have is an Aurum box open in Sheol C. Starting to think MM14 is gated behind that or something, did we ever determine whether things were gated behind specific requirements or not?

I did a thf key run today just to see if I could get a damn Aurum open... got 2 Aurum... both Mimic... such horrible luck on Aurum in Sheol C lol :) Just trying to figure out if I should keep wasting time with THF runs in an attempt to get an Aurum or whether we determined things like that were unnecessary... in which case I just go back to the 3 NM a day grind. thx everyone!
 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2021-06-18 08:50:33  
Honestly you can do the 16 aurum strongboxes in sheol C segment farming runs. It's not uncommon for groups to have 30+ izzat if you get a halo at the end of a floor leading into another halo at the start of the next floor and a NM right by it. Treasure chests upgrade to coffers vastly more often by spending izzat than they do from keying them, and coffers to strongboxes likewise. Just make sure you have enough izzat to open all 3 levels and you're good. I believe 26 izzat is enough. The minimum cost for chests is 5, coffers is 8, and I "think" strongboxes go down to 13 off the top of my head. You do get an increase in segments for the higher box levels too so if you really care about ranking up your moogle mastery it's probably worth it.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-06-18 09:05:00  
Phoenix.Logical said: »
Starting to think MM14 is gated behind that or something, did we ever determine whether things were gated behind specific requirements or not?

You just haven't hit the requirement. You need 1 Aurum Strongbox for the MM objective of that category. Then you need 15 more (total of 16) for the last MM objective from Aurum Strongboxes. It's the same for each wing of Sheol, only the NM kills vary. By the way, have you killed each NM in Sheol C at least 10 times?

Phoenix.Logical said: »
I did a thf key run today just to see if I could get a damn Aurum open
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
you can do the 16 aurum strongboxes in sheol C segment farming runs...Just make sure you have enough izzat to open all 3 levels and you're good

You can do both :3
Bring a THF to your Sheol C farming runs and open Chests & Coffers normally with Izzat. Have a THF pick any aurum stronboxes that you would have skipped due to not having enough izzat. If it ends up being a Mimic, let the THF die and tractor/raise him and move on. Just bring someone that knows Tractor (DRK). Mimics only retain hate on the keyer, unless someone else acts and gets on the hate list. Make sure you don't cure the Mimic or get hit by it's AOE on initial spawn (have everyone get away from the Coffer when being picked), because then everyone on the hate list will have to die, or have to kill it. Takes about 5 minutes to down, but you do get a Large Lu. Box at the end flux (its worth nothing now). IIRC, killed Mimics do not count towards your Aurum count, so you need to successfully pick the box.

This is the method my group did when Segments became a thing, even going back to Sheol B to do the same thing. The group was nice enough to tag along to help us get the MM capped. If your team is good enough to see 2-3 extra aurums lying around, you can have the THF pick it along the way. Worst case scenario, you lose 1~minute of your time, best case is you get the aurum.
 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2021-06-18 09:12:00  
Quote:
You can do both :3
Bring a THF to your Sheol C farming runs and open Chests & Coffers normally with Izzat. Have a THF pick any aurum stronboxes that you would have skipped due to not having enough izzat.

Haahahaa.... yeeeees! This is exactly how I did it. You can bring a thief with skeleton keys and just spend 13 izzat to open the treasure chest and coffer then key the aurum. But there IS still the risk of spawning mimics with this method. I cleared the aurum objective with a static before gaol existed when everyone wanted MMM ranked up. Most groups now won't want to waste time with mimics because they're a royal pain in the *** to kill and they really cut into your final segment count by eating up a lot of time (In sheol B and C they reset TP in addition to stunning you every time they AoE). My group just killed the stupid things when they spawned...but Bhukki's tractor method is also viable. We didn't want to leave me weakened because that also cuts into kill speed. You absolutely CAN do it either way. Mimics aren't THAT common with skeleton keys either..... but it does still happen and it's kind of random.
 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2021-06-18 09:17:05  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Phoenix.Logical said: »
Starting to think MM14 is gated behind that or something, did we ever determine whether things were gated behind specific requirements or not?

You just haven't hit the requirement. You need 1 Aurum Strongbox for the MM objective of that category. Then you need 15 more (total of 16) for the last MM objective from Aurum Strongboxes. It's the same for each wing of Sheol, only the NM kills vary. By the way, have you killed each NM in Sheol C at least 10 times?

Ahha! Thanks for confirming, that's certainly what it seemed like. Yes I've gotten 20+ kills on all NM's and my coffers and aurum are 20+ in A and B, but looks like I have a bit of work ahead of me for the 16 aurum in C. On the plus side my guess is it's just those 16 aurum I need and I'll have Mm15 in C. Appreciate the confirmation!
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-06-18 09:30:33  
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
We didn't want to leave me weakened because that also cuts into kill speed.

It's the same difference, really. ~4-5 minutes killing a Mimic (with no direct reward) vs sack the THF, weak for 3, but can continue fighting soon afterwards.
 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2021-06-18 09:44:11  
I also did my strongboxes before sheol gaol existed, so segments had no purpose at the time. If I did it today we'd probably do the sac and tractor method too.
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