Lilith HTBF

Never noticed it

Another mnk video, full attack/buffs without -dmg armor and with Carbonara food.

Fight starts @1:40

This one without self buffs, no food:

I didn't hit Lilith on the right position and Cherukiki went to die in the middle of the battle :D

Nobody is saying MNK can't kill this solo on Easy. It's... "easy", so many jobs can do it perfectly well. I don't get all the videos as if its necessary.

It was just a simple estimate about consistently clearing in two minutes. We are talking 1~2m time difference in average kill time. Some people come into threads and say oh its easy I kill in one minute, then they upload their best video without the fights where they die or take extra long due random issues. Some things can always go wrong and skew the avg clear time.

It aint that serious, but if you enjoy making the videos go for it. Let's make it a speed run Lilith Easy.

Then don't make inaccurate comments about how you think it's unrealistic that a non-haste capped MNK can clear the content faster per run than an Idris Geo + RUN combination on average? WTF get out of your feelings dude. It's not a showoff or anything, just giving people a visual reference point. This is a fight discussion thread, and when you say "here's an easy strat in under 2 minutes", people (like yourself and at least two others) are highly skeptical. It's one thing to claim you can do something, but showing people how possible it is gives proof of it. You know how videos work, you're an old school video guy.

In all fights, things can and will go wrong, that goes without saying. It could take longer, it could take significantly faster (I turned 3 times in my fight, it could have been 70~ seconds clear). Nobody is cherry picking videos either, especially not me (first and only video I've ever made). I am telling you that a monk (like mine and Taints and others) can clear this BC in under 2 minutes with zero buffs. Consistently. Every Time. That's not debatable. Seems like you made a claim based on your own opinion, got corrected on it, and then want to sit back and say "its not that serious". You can just admit you underestimated how strong a decked out MNK was vs your BLU + Idris combo in this fight. It's okay.

If you're soloing a HTBF you're going to pull hate from any trust tank eventually, and a different tank holding it longer than Amchuchu doesn't matter if the boss ends up attacking you in the sub-30% phase anyway.

I prefer Amchuchu for this fight if I'm using a tank at all just because all the damage is dark element so Valiance puts in serious work, though as a dagger-user I have to actually pay attention and not accidentally SC off Sickle Moon :(

I no longer solo this fight because there is nothing I need from it on my 2 main characters. I've only done this THF or COR/th4 solo. I still do Lilith HTBF this from time on COR, THF or RDM for friends and people who kindly ask for assistance. (Yea, I'm still an annoying odds breaker @20% if you count that mostly useless sword. If you count the sword as trash, then drop rate falls to 10% for the people I help.)

Scaev is correct that you will pull hate from ANY trust tank. If you do pull hate, just turn and whatever support tank will eventually get hate back whilst the support trusts heal you. This is especially important when Lilith is on her 1st form.

Play Lilith however way you want to play it. Killing it faster solo should only be important if you are using the Lilith HTBF as a testing ground to increase your skill and response time on whatever job you are currently rocking. The main object for most people is beating lady luck to get the drops you really need. Many people I know have given up farming Lilith because 0/200 is very discouraging.

I think some (all?) BCs use the "old world" enmity rules, which makes trust tanking pretty unuseable if you're on a melee job.
Except jobs who can seriously reduce their enmity like, I dunno, NIN? THF? Maybe DRG to a certain extent? And I guess BRD, at the cost of wasting 1 song slot lmao.

But the new HTBF in Selbina, which includes the Lilith one, use the "new world" enmity rules. (I think at least?)
Now a strong player would still gain hate eventually, but it should be much better than in those other areas.


I don't have too much experience with trust tanks in old HTBFs to be fair, but I've tried Trust tanking on Wanted NMs and my god, it's a real pain.

While he might have underestimated some things, I think he's perfectly right on one thing in particular.

People, pretty much everyone (yes, I'm included) tend to not completely understand the meaning of "average".
Like when people eyeball a WS dmg and take 4 or 5 nice spikes and say, in good faith, that's their "average" damage.
Or when you do a 1,5m Lilith and say that's your average.

Like for instance take me, I've done Lilith on THF in ~2 mins from engage, but that's nowhere close as my "average" kill time on my shitty THF, it usually takes longer than that for multiple reasons.

besides a maybe a select few meticulous players, nobody is parsing their precise average kill speed/clear times for any of this. People are similarly guesstimating their drop rate/total kills. And that is fine, we don't need to turn this into a semantics "well, this isn't REALLY your average" discussion. We are simply discussing strategies in the thread that are the most effective and communicating our results. If the word "average" is used loosely to illustrate a relative end result, it should be forgivable to an extent. We are players, not algorithms.

I'll also note that nobody here used the word "average" first besides him, and then he suggested kills may be closer to 4 minutes on Monk. Simply pointing out that was wrong was all I was doing.
there is no need to start a straw man about the true meaning of averages. Like, come on...

It's less old vs new and more mob level. There aren't two sets of enmity rules. There is one global enmity system, and then mobs of varying levels.

Most merit BCs take place in zones that still have level correction. And for every new mob in those areas, SE has kept the actual monster's level at 99. Then cranked up their stats. I guess because they didn't want to have to re-balance everything in the game pre-adoulin. Which they would have to if they removed level correction entirely.

And when a monster is level 99, the dmg to enmity ratio is off the freaking charts. So enmity caps really fast with the kind of dmg players deal now. I'm talking like 1~2 good WS fast.

The new WoE battlefields, however, do not have level correction and thus the mobs are actually of a decently high level. So the dmg to enmity ratio is much more reasonable. iirc, odin VD was measured at lvl 139 on VD.(I'm not sure if it varies by difficulty or not)

I've gone entire fights without pulling hate off AAEV on Lilith. Without using high jump. However, this is rare because Subjugating Smash is a hate reset, which *** everything up. And then it's time for superjump.

The differences are pretty meaningless when we're talking about a fight that's gonna last two or three minutes from your engagement. Lilith specifically has so little health that you're better off pushing through and ending it.

Also, it's worth noting trust tanks are, if not straight up bad for this fight, at least seriously annoying when you're trying to reposition for fetters. It's all magic damage anyway; just sub WAR or DNC for a provoke and tank her yourself.

Wow calm down there buddy, and I said an Idris geo + BLU not RUN, and I never said they clear it faster. I was comparing it to my avg clear time and they weren't too far behind me but this mob doesn't have much HP so it isn't saying much. I have closely monitored my clear times so I was just curious and said its seemed unrealistic, I didn't say they were lying but maybe not everyone tracks their clear times accurately. If you honestly think MNK is the best job for the fight this easy, then go ahead and keep thinking that but you're being dismissive of every other job that can easily do this and safer when there isn't such a huge benefit either way. My main issue were people coming in with a random number and throwing others off, then they go only on MNK or go out of their way to gear it. It wasn't even meant to be a discussion, simply supporting it through other testimonials is fine. You just had to grandstand, nobody is touching your precious job.


Yes thanks for explaining what I meant by average... then contradicting it.

I meant BLU, not RUN. My mistake.



Never said this. Complete strawman. Earlier in thread and in the September thread, I explained several other strats I have used. THF in this one. People stated monk and others challenged the clear time claims some of us made, and I countered with proof. No job bias here. I have taken advice from others on their strats/trust combos, but I feel like I can also share my experience as well. I play nearly every job, I could not care less about job choice, I have no infatuation with pixels.


No I'm not. I already outlined several other ways. We are talking about the Monk strat that you challenge clear time on. Why is it you can comment wrongly your opinion on something, then when someone corrects you, you deflect to "you're dismissing other safer strats"? This is childish deflection Draylo.


This is fine, but to be fair, when I originally posted the video, it was not in response to you. Go back a page, it was in response to two other people saying how it didn't seem possible and how numbers were being pulled out of thin air. I just posted the video as a response to them and not even you, even though it indirectly responded to you as well. Regarding commentary: "Grandstanding...precious job", don't need to deflect and throw passive aggressive commentary, I have been direct the entire time, and it's not about what job is or isn't the best. If you can, go scour the pages and find where you think I ever once claimed that. I am simply giving a quick rundown of a very easy and manageable method with a quick clear time. Has zero to do with what job I do or don't prefer, so no need to add little comments like this.



Now you're just being persnickety, Draylo. Deflecting into a strawman just makes you look desperate. You can just say "Ok I underestimated MNK a bit" and moved on. Don't take my commentary or video out of context. I was illustrating a point but speaking in general. You know this, but you're trying to find fault with anything at this point (even typos).

@Draylo tbh i think its completely reverse. You are insecure about your job and somehow you think Bukki tries to force mnk only strategy for this when he never did. You was claiming its unrealistic and people posted you proofs that it is realistic. All you needed to do is being humble and say "oh its indeed realistic you was right". Instead you are going sideways and trying your best at passive aggressive comments and derail this discussions into some "look at those mnk fanboys trying to force us playing this job", when its far away from that.

EDIT: I like how I read Buukki's post aftet wrinting mine and it has so much in common. Even using same phrases like passive aggresive comments or suggestion what Draylo could wrote etc. Funny stuff :)

This is a BC discussion and people are sharing ideas, this has nothing to do with any "this or that" job approach. I just wanted to illustrate a point here. People give strategies that include things that are not always accessible to everybody. "I used Idris GEO/4 song BRD/Sylvie/Ygnas/Rostam Roll COR and won in under a minute, totally easiest strategy". That is fine if someone has access to those resources, but people like me who only play one character do not. So it is completely reasonable to explain a strategy that involves none of that but is just as effective.

We are talking about Easy difficulty, so no it does not really matter in the long run. But if a MNK with no buffs and 5 AIs can clear this fight faster than a BIS BLU using Idris GEO, that should give people a barometer about how good MNK is for the Easy difficulty. All of this is before factoring Subtle Blow discussions.

Once again, you didn't clear faster than me. Re-read all the posts and you'll not see it mentioned once that I said he cleared faster. You're once again grand standing off your self proclaimed victory over something so trivial lmao. We are literally talking the difference of a minute or two in my "seems" unrealistic. Get over yourself. You aren't helping anyone that didn't see the original strats in the past 28 pages lol. You're just trying to get one over at this point.

No, there is no possible way a MNK solo with dinky trusts is going to clear faster than a BLU with an idris GEO, get real. Thanks.

You both edit a mile a minute, I had to wait and come back to respond and then he dropped that ego bomb so I decided to finally reply. It's a BC discussion but nobody benefits from grand standing. I made one post earlier and stopped, there was no need to admit I was wrong because I never accused anyone of lying. He just kept going on and on and with videos.

I mean, you're all hyped up about this, you obviously feel like your own performance is subpar. Maybe you clear faster, maybe you don't(he did a video, you didn't), but he was never trying to say that. You brought your killspeed into it as a way to deny MNK's speed. You can watch his video, his claim is very clearly not ***.

The only person making it into 'MNK vs BLU' or 'MNK vs BLU+GEO' is you.

I posted one video. There was another guy that posted two. But okay.


You can't honestly believe this is my end goal. You aren't this delusional.

He said it right here, lol and he insinuated it earlier. I came in simply saying, hm I don't think that seems realistic. A few testimonials later I didn't say anything else and he quoted me aggressively.

I don't think you're being malicious, but you're being quite aggressive as if I am on a soapbox saying MNK sucks. I'm aware of its benefits and the testimonials are nice if they help someone with the fight. I had one doubt earlier, because people regularly pull numbers out of thin air, and stopped once people came forward with more information. So I'm not sure what made you decide to go on such an aggressive attack once I responded to someone else and said it isn't necessary to have more videos as if you're disproving some conspiracy theory. We are talking the difference of minutes on an average for an easy fight. I said it wasn't serious and then you quoted me to continue the debate.

Progression indicates you turned this into a MNK vs BLU+GEO debate, not me. I was just posting correction to your clear time estimation (you said 4 minutes, way off)

Not really because that was my last post in regards to anything about BLU prior to this page. You aggressively quoted a few people and tried to throw them in a "gotcha!" situation, while they were simply stating a small disbelief. It really wasn't necessary but that is just my opinion. How about we let it go now Buukki and we can be productive for the thread? It doesn't seem we are going to agree here and it doesn't have to be a BLU vs MNK debate.

its not a blu vs mnk debate, mnk won by miles

How so?

This is your words that makes him belive that his 2 min mnk clear is faster than your blu+geo. You said it right there implyi g that 2min clear makes monk so much more powerful than blu+geo. He would never come up with this on his own. I will quote uou from different thread..

I can see how him misreading might have made him think something false, thanks for clearing that up SimonSes.

This really helps! I have won a few on E, but I'm dying near the end about 50% of the time. Sometimes I use my Panacea but still get oneshotted by Subjugating Slash under bad circumstances. But it feels good to be able to do E!

Of course I'll agree let it go, If you agree to stop using phrases like "grandstanding" and "self proclaimed victory" as a way of throwing veiled passive aggressive remarks. That is the more annoying thing than anything here. If I am going to talk about Lilith strategies in a Lilith thread, there's nothing wrong with that. But throwing in little shots this here and there are childish imo and have nothing to do with the strategy discussion we started on. debate or no debate.

Man, a lot of people talking on E when getting all the gear on VE is mindlessly easy and still possible...